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RIGHT ON THE MARK PODCAST
Episode 32 featuring featuring Jay Pinsky
Jay Pinsky is an avid hunter, a retired Navy veteran and a prolific outdoor writer who is concerned about anti-hunting organizations and their efforts to eliminate hunting. Jay recently wrote an article that challenged hunters to learn the lessons taught in the book, “The Art Of War” by Sun Tzu.
Jay Pinsky is an avid hunter, a retired Navy veteran and a prolific outdoor writer who is concerned about anti-hunting organizations and their efforts to eliminate hunting. Jay recently wrote an article that challenged hunters to learn the lessons taught in the book, “The Art Of War” by Sun Tzu.
The Art Of War was written before the bible and provides a roadmap for defeating competitors regardless of the theater of battle. The book is used today by business leaders, military strategist, politicians, coaches and virtually anyone involved in a competitive field.
Pinsky contends that hunters face organized opposition, but most hunters don’t want to face that fact. That denial undermines hunting and allow the opposition to utilize many of the techniques Sun Tzu outlined thousands of years ago. Those tactics still work today, especially if the side being attacked is unaware of the battle they are in.
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right on the Mark Episode 32, featuring Jay Pinsky, recorded October 2021. starts now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, He's humorous, and a bit hot headed. But when it comes to all things, God Family, country and hunting. He's Keith Mark, and he's Right on the Mark.
Keith Mark 0:44
Welcome back to another Right on the Mark podcast. And you know what, Josh? I think we're gonna be Right on the Mark again, today, our guest today, Jay Penske. He's gonna drop some truth bombs on our hunting listening public don't think?
Josh Ishmael 0:57
Yeah, it sounds like it. I can't wait to hear what he has to say. And sounds like he just got back from a hunt. So maybe we'll touch base with him on that as well.
Keith Mark 1:04
You know, it seems a common theme, Josh Among our guests. They're all good people, and they all hunt. You know, imagine that just just just think about that for a minute. Maybe we can improve the quality of human beings across the country, if they would all pick up a bow, pick up a gun, pick up a spear said Oh, no. But if they would just hunt, you know, I think people would be better people. So I'm interested to visit with Jay Today. And for a number of reasons. Number one, his background, which you know, he's got a military background, which a lot of you know, my closest friends do. He's an outdoor rider, a prolific outdoor writer, and he's a student of The Art of War, which I think when you combine all of that, hunters could learn a little bit from this man. So if you stay tuned, we've got an awesome guest tonight, today, Jay Penske, you're gonna want to hear what this guy has to say.
Right On The Mark 2:00
Right on the Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation. Hunter nation defends all of our traditional American values, God Family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American Hunter by visiting Hunter nation.org. Today.
Keith Mark 2:18
Welcome back to Right on the Mark. And with no further ado, I'd like to introduce you to Jay Penske. Jay, welcome to the podcast.
Unknown Speaker 2:26
Thank you for having me.
Keith Mark 2:28
You know, you just got back and you were kind of bragging about where you've just been? Why don't you just go ahead and brag to our listeners a little bit?
Unknown Speaker 2:35
Sure. So I have the I was very fortunate. I work as an outdoor writer, as a part time job. my full time job is I'm a federal employee for the USDA. But I also serve as the editor for the hind wire. And because of that, I was very blessed to have the opportunity to be invited by Weatherby to go to Saskatchewan, Canada to hunt waterfowl with zadkine, who's their director of marketing. And we went out there and we we played with their, their new shotguns and which is their element. And they're ATI. And of course, they're Orion. Over and under we 100 waterfed never been the candidate hunt. So we were very successful, very organized, very professional trip where you know whether B is a great organization, it's always done things very professionally.
Keith Mark 3:22
Yeah, they are. You know, when I was doing when I was doing television, Jay had the great opportunity to meet those folks. And whether it be good Christian people there, whether it be make a great product, almost like the family owned business atmosphere every time you're talking to him. So yeah, I've really enjoyed the times that I've spent with those guys. Oh, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 3:44
So I mean, Adam, Adam and Brenda that own it. When you say like a family, I'd like to, you know, politely correct you and say they are.
Keith Mark 3:51
Yeah, yeah, you're right. And the atmosphere is, you know, it's like I talked about Mossy Oak bee in the family owned business atmosphere. Of course, it really is. Family owned, but it goes beyond just the family owners. They've really, every everyone that works with them. I think they feel like they're part of the family. And then when you're, you know, doing something with a man, they make you feel right at home as well as you
Unknown Speaker 4:13
do. And I noticed that specifically on this trip that the Canadian people that they were working with the outdoor writers and the vendors that they were working with, they all emulated that same set of morals and values and ethics. Not necessarily Christian, I don't want to get into that. But that they had high degree of character that they were very loyal that they had a family sense of family. I saw that across the board and one of the things I was thinking was, gosh, this is why whether B is who they who they you know who they are, because their entire tree is populated with the same kind of apples. Yep. That's that's hard to do in today's age, and that's that's a testament to the weather be family. It's a testament to what a What Adam and Brenda has been able to do. So, you know, there are lots of great companies. But anytime I get a chance to work with whether it be, I always feel like I'm going hunting with with my family. And yeah,
Keith Mark 5:11
you know, I agree with you. And you mentioned something earlier. And you know, obviously I read the outdoor wire regularly. Some of our listeners might not even be aware of what that is Jay. So why don't you tell us a little bit about the outdoor wire and how people find it.
Unknown Speaker 5:27
So the outdoor wire is the largest and most prolific of the wire services owned and operated by Jim Shepard and Alex Maselli. Jim Shepard is probably well known in the industry. And what the outdoor wire is, is a daily news, news wire. Similar if you're a press guy to the AP wire, or Reuters or something like that, where every day they're putting out succinct and important news about products, what's going on an industry developments, politics as far as how it's affecting the gun industry and hunting, local, local, state and federal agency information. New developments with people moving around in the industry, new hires and promotions and things like that. And under the umbrella of the outdoor wire is where I am in with the hunting wire. Now the hunting wire is newer, started, I think by Richard man and a great mentor and writer himself. And then he brought me in under his wing and I took over from him a few years ago. So I was very blessed with that opportunity. And we've grown a hunting wire to be something focused specifically about hunting. And we've added some content to the hunting wire, which is based off the our three model where what we write about, in addition to you know, press releases and product information, tries to center on how do you recruit hunters? How do you retain hunters? How do you reenergize hunters that already exist. And whenever I work with different vendors, and different nonprofits, we write about things we try to put that spin on everything that we do.
Keith Mark 7:04
So how do we find those? How do we find all that good stuff, Jay. So if you want to
Unknown Speaker 7:09
go to the outdoor wire, you type that the outdoor wire.com. And if you want to visit the hunting wire, it's just hunting wire.com. Perfect. We have several other wire services, we have our true wire, tactical wire, a burden wire, but they're all They're all based off the same model, which is serving as a brokerage for news and information about the industries. And then some of the wires have a specific content like the hunting wire, which is based on that that specific audience for hunting or birding and things of that nature. So all
Keith Mark 7:40
good stuff. All good stuff, you know, and obviously, I'm the founder of Hunter nation. And one of the things that we have found is that hunters just aren't informed. And it's a damn shame because if they go to any of your services, they can certainly stay informed Hunter nations doing our best to inform them. Why is it do you think that hunters have just paid more attention to as Michael Waddell told us on the podcast, just sweep their own back porch? And don't worry about the other guys back porch, they really aren't interested or historically haven't been interested in forming themselves. They really have shied away from politics and getting involved, even at the expense of our own lifestyle. Why do you think that is with hunters?
Unknown Speaker 8:24
Sure. So you know, these are my opinions, and not those necessarily the hunting wire or the outdoor? I love the disclaimer? Well, in my opinion, I think there's a lot of reasons for that. First and foremost, I can only speak for myself as a hunter, but I can, I can guess, in the sense that most hunters or isolationists, part of what draws us to the hunt is the the one on one pursuit of US versus nature. And we want to challenge our minds and our bodies and even our emotions, to be able to pursue this, this critter. You know, for me for for emotional or spiritual or physical or mental success, and go from there. And when you're in that pursuit, when you're in that frame of mind, you tend to self isolate. Because you hyperfocus and you aren't necessarily so so concerned about what everybody else is doing at the time. And that isn't that isn't a slight toward hunters. No, not at all. That's just a fact of the nature of the beast. Hunting can be a group activity, certainly you ever been to a dove shoot or rabbit hunt, those are obviously you know, group activities. But by and large, you know, hunting is is man versus, you know, any woman of course, versus that nature. So, there's that there's that aspect of that we're, you know, then there's the simple fact that people want to be left alone. I know when I go out in the woods and I hunt. I'd like to tell you that it's 100% focused on being successful at harvesting the animal. The truth of the matter is most of the time I just I just want peace and quiet and I want to shut off my mind. And I'll get it into a tree or I'll get next to a tree. And yes, I want to be successful when I'm hunting. But most of the time, I just want to escape. Everything else that's happening in this world and being in the woods allows me to do that. So there's that aspect of it as well. And then there's, you know, there's the part where, which is part of what, you know, I wrote in the Honeywell editorial, which is, there may be some people who believe that, you know, what, I, I'm hunting, I've got my land access, I'm good. And none of this is going to change. And whatever happens other people, you know, I may or may not feel good or bad about that, but I don't really care because this, this isn't affecting me. And it's not in my most, you know, my innermost circle. So I don't have to really worry about this. And I'm not going to waste of time to do that. And then the other part may,
Keith Mark 10:57
let me stop you free, go to the other part J. That's the one that concerns me the most, I call that the Titanic mentality. As long as your cabin is on the top row of the Titanic, some of these people think it's okay. And and, you know, obviously, it's not okay, because while we're out, setting in and near trees, and enjoying our peace and quiet and not really worrying about other things, the enemy is trying to divide us, and ultimately conquer us meaning eliminate hunting, if possible. We see in Oregon right now, there's legislation in Oregon right now, to make hunting fall under the animal cruelty statute, which would eliminate all forms of hunting, even if you're hunting for the food of it. So I think this titanic mentality, or hey, I'm good. And I'm not going to worry about my fellow man, fellow Hunter, or tell you if if we can do anything is we've got to change that one. Go ahead.
Unknown Speaker 11:58
Yeah, and that was, that was pretty much the foundation of what I wrote. And with that, it I understand, I understand this, I understand people feeling that way. I'm not necessarily wired that way, I was having a great conversation with Eric Morris, from non typical outdoorsman, last night, and we were talking about the different phases that a hunter goes through. And the final phase is the legacy phase where you are more interested in mentoring and helping others and the the event of hunting and the feeling of hunting more than necessarily trophy hunting, so to speak, or being successful at it, killing whatever it is you're going after. And, and none of the stages are any better or worse than the other. It's just a natural process. So and some people get hung up on that, I know, there were times where I was highly focused on on just you know, being successful killing a deer killing a bear or you know, and Lord knows, I've tried killer nail combat just haven't happened yet. But I'm the you know, there are a lot of hunters who are who are that way. And in my opinion, I respect their ability to do that. And, and their choice to feel that way. Unfortunately, with so many people coming after hunting, and doing it in such intelligent, and creative and collaborative ways. We cannot afford to operate independently, because no matter how strong One hunter may be, and how good they may be at what they do, and how well funded they may be, or how you know how savvy they are toward laws or environmental issues. They are not helping if they choose not to collaborate with other hunters and help other hunters, then what that means is, yeah, they are going to be taken down first, they're going to be taken down last. And what happens is the enemies that are coming after us grow stronger. And as you take out the weakest people, you eventually learn more tactics, you learn more about your your adversary, and you grow stronger, and you grow more well funded, and you get more people on your side, to the point where you finally come after the they're super successful, super well funded, super well educated people who think they can't be taken down, and it's too late, because now you're dealing with an organization or a movement that is so strong, so well funded, and so well rooted in legislative affairs, that you're defeated. And that's what we're trying to avoid
Keith Mark 14:35
100% You got to know your enemy. And we got to take a quick break right now, Jay, and we're gonna come back because I want to go back to the three R's that you mentioned earlier, and some of that divide and conquer theory that's in our own myths, so stick around.
Right On The Mark 14:49
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Keith Mark 15:08
Welcome back to Right on the Mark. And our guest today is Jay Penske. And Jay, you have a interesting background. And I do want to get back into some of these hunting topics, but tell our listeners about you, and your background that brought you to where you are and what you're doing today.
Unknown Speaker 15:25
Sure. So and thanks for that question. I joined the military, the US Navy right out of high school.
Keith Mark 15:31
Thank you for your service, Josh, and I thank you for that. Obviously, we're big fans of the US military. Most of my friends are military, and we've had them on so great, thank you for that. Sure.
Unknown Speaker 15:41
And thank you, thank you for the compliments. The served first half of my career as a submarine, mechanical engineer, I was a those in the Navy. I was a ganger. machinist mate. And that did well. And then they discovered that I had a gift for gab. And they help the Navy helped me become a journalist within the military. And from that my career really took off. And I became a photojournalist for the military then become became highly focused in photojournalism. And combat photojournalism, which is a broad term just means that you're expeditionary and I covered the Department of Defense's military forces all over the world and all kinds of situations. And that, but that was that's where I was able to develop, you know, my writing, some public affairs work. So people skills and things of that nature. But the whole time, I was always trying to get back to the woods because I grew up in North Carolina, I was the son of the army Greenbrae at Fort Bragg. So I spent a lot of time in the woods. And when I was in church, my mentor for my youth organization that was in, he would take me hunting, he taught me hunting. And that was where we talked about the birds and the bees and how to be a young man, and, you know, and our Christianity, and he's that he was hunting as a platform to be able to relate to me as a young man and helped me grow. So that never left me. It's tough to haunt, you know, when you're in the military, because you're always gone. And when I retired, right, really, as I was retired, I then sought out a natural resources and sustainability degree from Virginia Tech, did my masters there, I learned about sustainability and natural resources, especially from leadership role. Started doing some freelance work, thanks to some mentors, in the outdoor industry. Always be very grateful to athalon. But then Harris, they gave me my start, you know, you know, and those guys have always been very good to me. And the rest is history, I was able to network and start doing a lot of writing for them, then RA for Lucado, over again, digest. So and I've gotten a lot of great opportunities and met a lot of great people because of that. So that's, that's how I've gotten to where I am.
Keith Mark 18:01
Awesome. So um, you did you were talking in the break about subcontractor work. Tell us about that?
Unknown Speaker 18:09
Sure. So a few years ago, I was looking to do some work that paid well, to be very frank. So I networked and was able to work for a company that
Keith Mark 18:24
that wants you right now. Oh, no.
Unknown Speaker 18:26
Yeah. So I worked for a company that had me work as a contractor for the Department of Homeland Security. We worked for Cisco, which is cyber, cyber terrorism infrastructures Security Agency, I think, and my specific job was election security during the 2020 election. So that was a very interesting place to be, regardless of whether you're Democrat or Republican. And I learned about mis and disinformation and Mal information and how that impacted. Americans, unfortunately, miss this and Mal information that affects hunting just as much as it does elections or anything else. And I started taking that optic and applying it to the hunting community that we have. And I realized how much damage we're doing to ourselves and how much damage anti hunters are doing to us that through ourselves, so and that's what led me to write what I did for the hunting wire.
Keith Mark 19:23
You know, in there's some people to get mad at me when I save this, but I think we're involved in the epic battle of good versus evil. And we have an enemy. In this endeavor. There are those out there that would crush all of our traditional American values of God, family structure, our country itself and certainly our outdoor hunting lifestyle. And if we fail to just recognize right off that you have an enemy, then one you can understand how the enemy thinks and reacts and acts then in turn, you can't defeat the enemy. What's your take on that?
Unknown Speaker 20:04
Sure. So I think it's, you know, again, these are all under the art of war and for the audience that's listening. So you have to know your enemy. And me personally, I think probably the biggest mistake we make as a community is we underestimate our enemies. And wait,
Keith Mark 20:21
let me stop you for a second. You mentioned something there, Jay, that maybe some folks aren't, aren't familiar with the art of war? You know, what is that? And then maybe we can talk a little bit about that as we as we go on down this trail of what's going on to our sport.
Unknown Speaker 20:38
Sure. So Sun Tzu is Chinese, a gentleman who wrote a book about tactics and philosophies of combat for combat and leadership and things like that. So the, what was going on is he wrote this book that's full of tactics that's used by I'm sure military and leaders and really business leaders around the world. And it's been done so for decades. But it teaches you it really helps you frame and label different philosophies and ideas, when approaching different opportunities or obstacles, whether it's war, a business, meeting, an adversary, even relationships,
Keith Mark 21:15
sports, everything. I mean, you know, and I, and kind of the coolest thing about the, if I'm right on my history, The Art of War was written almost 200 and some years BC. And so it stood the times the test of time, you know, centuries?
Unknown Speaker 21:35
Well, yes. The thing about good writing, if you're right, you was you were able to withstand time and changes and moods. That's why the Bible still stands is because it's right. So yeah, so the the thing about the art of war and knowing your enemies, is this, to get back to what, you know, your question was, I think because of the difference in physical makeup, the difference in how they carry themselves the difference in how they talk, and what a lot of people in the hunting community consider to be maybe not so macho or not so physically successful things in the in the non hunting community, that they that they make the mistake of thinking the anti hunters or people who are against meat, or people who are against firearms, that they're weak, or that they're not smart, or they're not, or that they're not capable, or they can't be aggressive. And I think that those are all ideas that are that work in favor of our enemies, and work in this favor of us. Because the truth of the matter is, just because you disagree with someone. And just because you feel like your way of life is better. That does not mean that your enemy is any less capable, and any less motivated to overwhelm you and defeat you than then you are of them. A great example of that is you know, you ask any soldier, sailor, airman, Marine Corps guardsman, you go to Afghanistan, and you fight the Taliban, or you go to Iraq, and you fight, you know, ISIS, or World War Two generations fighting the Germans, those guys were hell bent on defeating you. And they didn't have to have better technology, or better training or better tactics, they figured it out. And the truth of the matter is anti hunters are doing the same thing. And I think if the hunting community as a whole would get to the mindset of understanding that the people that are coming after us are just as an even better, so probably better served to think of them as smarter than us. It would help us to organize faster, and help us to put petty differences amongst ourselves aside, it helps us to redirect funding that we need to have. And help us to focus more succinctly in defeating these things that are coming after us.
Keith Mark 23:54
You know, one of the things that I like the most or the best about the president and CEO of Hunter nation, Lou kilcummin Is that he wants to change the philosophy of how hunters approach issues. politically and otherwise. Hunters have played defense for ever. And you know, as well as I know that defense, it portrays a certain connotation, weakness Sunsoo says defense portrays weakness, offense portrays superiority, right? And so in sometimes it's what your enemy thinks is more important than what's really true. And so what Luke has done and what's going on right now, up in the state of Wisconsin, is we proposed a series of bills, pro hunting pro conservation bills. We went up there with Ted Nugent, we did a press conference on the floor of the Senate. We took an aggressive posture, these are good bills, these are by party and bills, this is pro hunting hunting is perfect. And we're gonna fight to get these passed. And we actually got some Democrats there out of the Senate, they passed the Senate with some bipartisan support. So what's your take on the whole idea of hunters sweeping their own porch and just playing defense when we need it versus, hey, the time has come to fight for what we believe and be a little bit more on the offensive?
Unknown Speaker 25:23
Well, I don't, I really don't want to murder a really powerful passage. But there's there's this series where they talk about and I think it refers to the Jewish population during the Nazi occupation, where they talk about coming for different people, and the people at the top of the chain, ignore the smaller people who are being taken. And they say, Well, I don't worry about that, because they aren't coming from me. They aren't coming from me. They aren't coming from me. And eventually they come for you because there's no one else to left to defend. Well, the same is true here. And that philosophy that philosophy applies to lots of people. I think that one of the main things about missing disinformation, and the art of war here is this. Lots of little sections, or subcultures of the hunting community are being isolated and separated. And that's being done on purpose. They want there to be infighting. They want archers to fight between crossbow people and vertical bow people and recurve people. They want muzzleloader people to fight amongst 209 primer people versus straight old school Flintlock people. They want long range shooters to fight against short range shooters they want in lead baseball people to fight against copper plated, you know, or not, you know, non lead base.
Keith Mark 26:46
No, no, no, no,
Unknown Speaker 26:49
they want people that run dogs to fight against people who don't run dogs. And it's bad enough that we fight amongst ourselves. But what the anti hunters are learning is that if they can aggregate or I'm sorry, if they can, you know, instigate more fighting amongst ourselves, we become so obsessed with fighting ourselves, that it makes us easier to pick us off one by one. And that was a tactic that I learned about, you know, studying in election missing disinformation. I no longer work for that company. I work now full time for the USDA, which is a completely different mission. But the I really want American hunters to understand this, that the fighting that we're doing it not only is hurting ourselves, but you're making yourself more vulnerable to those of us who are those of you know, those who want to defeat us. Because we're making people who are really all hunters weaker. And or picking those up, the enemy is picking us off one by one. So we've got to stop that stuff. It really is silly. And now a lot of that, let's be fair. That means that we have to police our own organizations, and we have to police our own subcultures. You know, if you're a dog Hunter, you need to be an ethical and sound dog Hunter. If you're not a dog, Hunter, you need to be tolerant and inclusive to dog hunters, and know that what they're doing is just as fun, you know, just as good and legal as what you do. It's just different. But you've got to support people who don't necessarily do things your way. Otherwise, you know, yes, it let's say that all of a sudden they outlaw dog hunting, and you're somebody who's against dog hunting. Well, you think, oh, man, that's great. It's not great. Here's why. Well, they just successfully defeated dog hunting. Now they've got a when they get more money they get, they get more power, and then they slowly start to come after you. Just like in Maine, when they're coming out there bear hunters, they want to go they're like, Oh, we're not against bear hunting. We just don't think that you should bait. We think that's harmful to the environment. We don't think that's fair Chase. That's what they tell you. Well, what they really want is they don't want a hunting and they're they're taking it you know, they're biting you know, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? How do you defeat hunting one small issue at a time?
Keith Mark 29:04
You know what, Jay? You're 100% right, we got to take a quick break. I do not want to leave this topic. So if you're listening to this podcast, we're gonna come right back and talk a little bit more about this divide and conquer mentality that the anti hunting enemy is implementing as we speak. Stay tuned. We're gonna be right back.
Right On The Mark 29:22
This segment of Right on the Mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak at Mossy Oak. A life outdoors is in your DNA shop there incredible pattern selection and more at Mossy Oak, calm Mossy Oak, feed your obsession.
Keith Mark 29:38
Welcome back. We're with Jay Penske, and Jays working up on a hard deadline at the end of this so we got to percolate right along. So Jay right now, what you're saying is coming true in a lot of places we saw backcountry hunters and anglers and the Montana Bow hunters Association fought an initiative to try to get crossbows legal for disabled Hunters disabled veteran hunters during regular archery season. That is a perfect example of what you're talking about the divide and conquer and fight amongst ourselves, right? Yep. And, you know, we also had a recent big media uproar over when the meat eater came out and said he actually opposes the three R's that you're obviously advocating. Again, I hate to keep bringing you back to Sunsoo Sunsoo said, it's very important that you have spies. And it's very important that you, you know that there is misinformation out there. And I think hunters need to be very careful of where they get their information and don't just rely on one source, they should, should do their homework. You agree with that?
Unknown Speaker 30:48
So, you know, I don't think at all that mediator or Steve Rinella is against hunting. Or three, when when it's all said and done. I think that what he was trying to say, I think it was his brother who actually said it was I think that what he's trying to say is that there are a lot of hunters who don't want to crowd their spaces. And in there are people who believe that if you create too many hunters, that there's going to be a shortage of resources. Now, that topic, you know, I'm thankful that Steve Rinella and meat eater brought that topic to debate how he did it is something to be argued about. But the truth of the matter is having that conversation is probably good for us.
Keith Mark 31:32
You know, that's definitely a topic we can kick around for a long time. But we're short on time. And so what I want you to do is I want you to tell our listeners, it whether it's scold us, whether it's, uh you know, exalt us, but what can hunters do? What is your recommendation to our listening hunters to try to break this cycle and put us more in a winning frame of mind going forward against this anti hunting force that we're against?
Unknown Speaker 31:58
Sure, that's a great question. I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this on your platform. This is my advice. And I hope that this rings true for every man, woman and child that listens to your program. This is how you defeat anti hunters. We as hunters, regardless of how you hunt, find the common ground that we all share from that common ground. Move out from that one at a time. We all love to hunt. So we start there. And then we move from that. And when we find issues that we disagree about, learn that it's okay. And that you don't have to stop somebody from doing something a little bit differently, because we're still family. And then it also helps to simply have a conversation. Get off social media, quit being a keyboard ninja or keyboard, Warrior, go have a beer or sweet tea or gospel water or want whatever it is you like to drink, and sit down with the people who don't like to hunt the way you do. And guess what you're going to find out, you're going to find out that they are doing what you have to do for the same reasons. They're doing it in a different way. And find the bonds and remember who we are, and build friendships, build relationships, and protect your fellow Hunter. And when you do that, you're going to find out, first of all, you're going to find out just how much hunting means to other people. And it's going to reinvigorate you as a hunter. It's going to help you become a leader and sometimes a better follower. And it's going to help defeat the people that are coming after us.
Keith Mark 33:28
You know what, Jay, your words are so powerful. And you're, you're an exceptionally wise man, I appreciate you're on our side in this fight my friend. I mean, your writing is incredible. Your reach is fantastic. And I'm going to ask you, Hey, what how do we get you to write some one offs? That we can put it the 100 nation.org website because, you know, we've got a pretty big following we're trying to unite the American 100 we're certainly trying to inform them on these critical issues. And And honestly, I've had a lot of guests on here, big name guests, but your words are just so true. And I think that this is exactly what the American Hunter man, woman and child needs to hear. So can we call her shoe to do a little one off writing for Hunter nation.org
Unknown Speaker 34:18
Sure, I'm happy to do whatever helps our cause. And this if I if I may be so bold, I'd really like to plug our voice of leadership panel that's on the honey wire because we have some excellent leaders in the community with a voice of leadership panel is it's a they're all volunteers. Nobody gets paid. Have community leaders within the hunting industry. And they we attack and address serious issues. So when you go to the honey wire honey wire.com Take a look at the voice of leadership panel and listen to the people they're talking you got. You shoot like a girl. You've got weather b You've got NSSF you've got Stewart's outdoor conservation, you've got the NRA And we're all very different, but we're talking about key issues and attacking it in a very aggressive way. And sometimes we have some very heated discussions there. So there are lots of leaders if you're if you're someone in the community who is responsible for direction of your in your company or your movement, you know, share the wealth and teach others to be leaders, and promote a sense of moral, you know, moral fiber, and keep moving forward. So that's, that's, and we all have it in us. So that's, yeah, that's,
Keith Mark 35:33
it sounds like a place we need to get Luke kilcummin. To join you guys right there. So Hunter nation can, you know, learn and listen from those other folks, and maybe they can learn a thing or two from us as well, because the one thing we're trying to do at Hunter nation is to unite hunters, and just what you just said earlier, doesn't matter how you do, it doesn't matter where you do, it doesn't matter what you're hunting, we need you to be united. So, Jay, you've been an incredible wealth of knowledge for us today. I appreciate you joining us.
Unknown Speaker 36:04
Thank you for the opportunity. And there are lots of great leaders out there, and any wisdom that you think I have. It's because of great mentors, and great leaders that have been able to help me be successful. So I'm only a product of our community. And I'm very humble and thankful to all the people that have helped me over my career.
Keith Mark 36:22
Well, we'd like to get you to be a bigger part of what we're doing with Hunter nation because your words wisdom and sounds like your goals aligned perfectly with our so my friend, God bless you have a great rest of your day. And thanks for taking time out to share your knowledge and passion with our listeners. Right. Thank you. Thank you, Josh. What do you think, man?
Josh Ishmael 36:42
Well, first off, I didn't I've never read the art of war. And I started trying to find when you said how many years it was BC. Yeah. And he said still relevant now. That's incredible.
Keith Mark 36:53
Yeah. And not to mention, like Jay says the Bible, right. I mean, you know, if you look at the oldest of the texts, there's usually something to it if people are still reading.
Right On The Mark 37:03
Our good friend Mark oz Geist, Benghazi hero and decorated veteran has a new mission. And you can help him help him honor Americans who have served our country silently behind enemy lines as contractors, and through their heroic and courageous acts have fallen or been injured. They need our help now, visit Shadow Warriors project.com. That's Shadow Warriors. project.com. These heroes gave a lot. The least we can do is give a little
Keith Mark 37:41
welcome back to Right on the Mark. And what a whirlwind guest Jay Penske was Josh.
Josh Ishmael 37:46
Yeah, I mean, I could listen to that guy talk for hours. I mean, super, super, super smart guy, and I love his not all of his opinions are 100% aligned with mine, but I'll sit here and listen to him and learn from him just the same.
Keith Mark 37:58
Yeah. 100% And I think that's really kind of what he's trying to tell us. You know, if you're a bow hunter and I'm a crossbow hunter are you like high fence? And I don't? Are you predator Hunter have dogs? I mean, the whole idea is that let's just start with we're all hunters,
Josh Ishmael 38:13
right? And I've always said I'm never gonna spear anything or handcuff a hog. But God love you if you do,
Keith Mark 38:20
right. You know, it's all part of what we do. And we need to support it if it's legal. If it's done ethically, hey, you're one of us. And if it's not, like you said, police our own stuff, I mean, if you're doing it wrong, and I mean wrong, in a sense of ethically or legally, we have to call you out wrong doesn't mean you use a sharp stick and I use a bullet, but I'm talking about legally or ethically wrong, then it behooves hunters to square that away, but the truth is, and you and I've had this conversation, Josh, the vast majority 99.9% of all hunters do it correctly.
Josh Ishmael 39:00
100% agree and, and he talked about the anti hunters a little bit not to quote Luke kilcummin, their favorite pastime is trying to take away our favorite pastime and
Keith Mark 39:10
I don't think you should give that quote to Luke. That's something that Donald Trump Jr said on a great American tales with me remember, he said, you know, be careful, because, you know, their pastime is to destroy or their hobby is to destroy our pastime.
Josh Ishmael 39:26
Even better, how about that?
Keith Mark 39:29
I don't I'm sorry, Luke. I didn't mean to one up you but that was that was really Donald Trump Jr. So Josh, are you going to get the book? You're going to get the art of war?
Josh Ishmael 39:37
I am. I am. Yeah, it sounds like a great thing. And like he said just about the Bible. I mean, the truth is the truth no matter if it was wrote 475 years ago, BC, I mean, the Bible is right. And the art of wars. Right? So Right. Can't argue with that.
Keith Mark 39:52
No, and again, you know, I mean, I think this is why 100 nation is on the right track because our enemy grows stronger every day. Our enemy becomes more, more well funded every day. And if hunters don't sort this out in their own brains, like immediately, it's gonna all be over before they realize that I mean, and that's the honest to goodness truth. He gave some references historical references Germany back in the 19, late 30s and 40s. I mean, and it happened over a gradual period of time look at Australia, they took their guns. Next thing, you know, the police are shooting them with rubber bullets and crown for not wearing a piece of cloth over their face. I mean, their rights were eroded over time to the point where they there wasn't enough of them, or they didn't have the resources to fight back. And if hunters don't realize we're 17 million strong right now, that if we unified there is no special interest group that can beat us. There's not one politician that can legislate us out of our lifestyle. I mean, we are a large number of God, family country, traditional American value loving individuals. And if we unite, I mean, I just don't see how we get beat Josh,
Josh Ishmael 41:06
right. But I will say if we don't keep recruiting, we will get beat because I mean, just in my small brain at 34 years old, they're comparing my high school to your high school where you could, there was probably shotguns in the back windows or rifles in the back windows, because you were going hunting after school, where now I mean, it's hard to get a kid away from a Gameboy or whatever they're playing. Now, I don't even know. But
Keith Mark 41:32
we have to do it. We all have personal responsibility.
Josh Ishmael 41:38
It's not getting easier, I guess is what I'm saying the recruitment is getting harder, because the kids have a million other things to do. And if we don't recruit in and get that next generation of Hunter, that's the only way they can do this. And the only way they do that is making it harder to hunt, making more laws to make it harder that I mean, that's the only way they'll do it.
Keith Mark 41:57
You know, I agree with you, Josh. And I encourage everyone that's listening. If you haven't gone to HUNTER nation.org HUNTER nation.org That group is fighting its ass off to protect hunters and our hunting rights. Hunter nation.org. Check it out. I guarantee you if you spend 10 minutes on that website, one, you're going to learn something to you're going to get pissed off to see what's going on with these anti hunting groups what they're trying to do to us hunters, and then you're going to join and get active because everyone that I've ever talked to that spent any time on that website, they learned something they got pissed off, and now they're active Hunter nation.org God bless you all come back again. We'll have more Right on the Mark down the trail.
Right On The Mark 42:41
Right on the Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right on the Mark are not necessarily those of our host guests or sponsors. Right on the Mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of Boehner Oh productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions copyright 2021
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Episode 31 featuring featuring Bows 4 Badges
This week our host, Keith Mark welcomes Leisa Moses and Bobby Jensen from Bows4Badges. Bows4Badges is a non-profit organization that provides hunting, fishing and other outdoor experiences for the children of fallen police, fire and EMS heroes. Bobby and Leisa live in the Minneapolis area and saw the rioting in the streets and the movement to “defund” the police. Both were raised hunting and Leisa’s dad with a cop for 40 years so when they decided to start helping kids of fallen heroes, Bows4Badges was a natural answer to the obvious need. More information at Bows4Badges.org
This week our host, Keith Mark welcomes Leisa Moses and Bobby Jensen from Bows4Badges. Bows4Badges is a non-profit organization that provides hunting, fishing and other outdoor experiences for the children of fallen police, fire and EMS heroes. Bobby and Leisa live in the Minneapolis area and saw the rioting in the streets and the movement to “defund” the police. Both were raised hunting and Leisa’s dad with a cop for 40 years so when they decided to start helping kids of fallen heroes, Bows4Badges was a natural answer to the obvious need.
Right On The Mark:
This transcription is auto-generated, Right on the mark Episode 31, featuring Bows4Badge s recorded any errors are unintentional. October 2021. starts now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, He's humorous, and a bit hot headed. But when it comes to all things, God Family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark:
Well, Josh, you know, I mean, again, we're going to be politically incorrect. Again, welcome all of you to right on the mark. And again, I hate to say it, we're going to talk about a controversial subject. Today, we are going to celebrate people with badges. We're going to celebrate first responders. We're going to celebrate cops and firemen and EMS, you know, all those people that, you know, seems to be getting stones thrown at him. Josh, what do you think?
Josh Ishmael:
Yeah, it's sad that it's controversial to support the people that try to protect
Keith Mark:
us. Yeah, no kidding. Well, it's not controversial. Because obviously if you listen to right on the mark podcast, you know exactly where we stand on all these controversial topics. I mean, you know, those things like the 10 commandments, the Constitution, you know, God Family country, our hunting lifestyle. Oh, and by the way, Josh, you know, I'm sure you looked at the website, the for the folks we're going to talk with today. It's a you know, bows for badges. So think about it. They're double controversial, they're talking about hunting with bows, and celebrating people that serve. Wow, oh, my goodness. We these must be crazy people we're talking to today because in today's day and age, my goodness, who would possibly try to promote hunting with law enforcement? Oh,
Bobby Jensen:
yeah. Right. What
Josh Ishmael:
do you think? What do you think the crossbow on? Is there a crossbows for badgers? Because if not, I'm sure we're making somebody mad right now.
Keith Mark:
Oh, you know what, I can't wait to get these folks on because, you know, I've talked to them offline, not on the show, of course. And they are dynamic people. I mean, actually, they they're, they're like former musician, rock star type personalities in real life. Yes. And they're giving back. You know, when I talked to Lisa, she talked about how things had gone so well in their lives. And they just wanted to give back to the community and they want to give back to those that serve and actually give the most. So think about that for a second. We can all learn from that. And we come back. We've got Lisa Moses and Bobby Jensen, who are the founders and and they do all the hard lifting for bows for badges. I'm actually kind of excited, you know, because I want to hear what they're doing. And I want to hear how they're helping those folks. Stay tuned. We'll have some more right on the mark with Lisa and Bobby come in. Right.
Right On The Mark:
Right on the mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation fighting against anti hunting rules and regulations every day to protect your right to hunt, visit Hunter nation.org To learn more, and to join today.
Keith Mark:
Welcome Bobby and Liza to right on the mark and my told our listeners before you guys came on that was like we're dealing with rock stars today. And man, you guys look the part. How you guys. Morning.
Bobby Jensen:
there's anything we don't do.
Leisa Moses:
That's true. That is true. So we still are rock stars. Yeah, just
Bobby Jensen:
rock star in the woods, you know. So
Keith Mark:
you know what I noticed? There's some sort of a musical instrument over the left shoulder and it looks like some recording stuff laying around back there. So let's talk about your music background for starters, then we're gonna get into the great stuff that you're doing.
Bobby Jensen:
Background starts when the boy came out of the womb pretty much. Yeah, yeah, I've been I've been whoops, touring and singing and doing all that stuff. Pretty much my whole life. So about I think I knew what I was going to do when I was three and I'm 51 now so that's pretty good. I think when I was 13 I got my first paycheck in the entertainment business. And I haven't lost I haven't looked back you know, in school people carried around their social studies books and all that and I carried how to succeed in the music business that oh boy, that's that's what I do.
Keith Mark:
And obviously we have some mutual friends I mean, you guys are friends with Ted and she may Newton
Bobby Jensen:
yeah you know yeah, thanks thank God pretension man. I mean, they they caught wind of what we do and what we're about and without them we wouldn't have gotten hooked up with some of the outfitters and, and the things that we need to do to get this to grow
Leisa Moses:
really amazing people actually.
Keith Mark:
Yeah, no kidding. I mean They're on the frontlines of truth, logic and common sense every single day. And if it's hunting or gun, cause, you know, they're usually right there. And then of course, they love the US military, and then those who really serve and protect us, which is right in your niche. Right. So yeah, perfect fit for you guys.
Bobby Jensen:
Yeah. And one of my bands even opened for tat in 93. And we were talking about that on the spirit of the wild tour. And he got all excited, like, how can we don't know each other? And then I told him that I'm a bounty hunter. And, you know, I work with the police department trained police canines, and he freaked out. He's like, Man, I got my badge. And he introduced me to the dog. And, you know, so many people for forever, like me, you're a lot like Ted Nugent, I said, well, in a way, I'm just not as smart and as weighty about the world as he is I, I, I'm a little slower, but to come around, but, you know, I love the man for what he does. And we pretty much grew up the same way our parents got us into hunting I, my dad and his dad, his dad's hunters for forever, and gunsmith. So that's where I was, I was raised on how to properly handle a firearm when I was three, four or five years old. I still have the 322 rounds that I shot when I was four years old.
Keith Mark:
Wow, that's awesome. So you grew up not only you know, loving music, but you actually grew up in a hunting family too.
Bobby Jensen:
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's what we did. And my whole life. You know, before I even knew who Ted Nugent was. I always wondered how music and hunting can be together because they're, they're so cool. That I always tell friends and bands, because it seems that there's a disconnect with people in in bands. A lot of them don't want to go to the woods and do that they tend to lean a little bit more this way. And they don't understand the the fun and the games that the wilderness can provide. But yeah, every Saturday morning, we went and shot my whole life.
Keith Mark:
Wow. That's crazy. What? Tell me the name of your band.
Bobby Jensen:
I made a group called the biggest group I was in was called hairball. And we did that for 20 years. And I left that to just pursue bows for badges and try to make that great.
Keith Mark:
Well, you know, you mentioned bows for badgers. So how did you get into of course, you know, I mean, if you grew up like I did in a traditional American, value loving family, God Family country hunting the constitution. So you probably grew up respecting the military, you grew up respecting law enforcement and firefighters. How, how'd you get into this? Well, I
Bobby Jensen:
grew up with military and cops in my house. Yeah. Dad. My dad was in the Air Force. My brother was in the 101st Airborne Division. He was a cop. My sister in law was a car. What does she do? She ran the 911. in Clarksville, she just retired. She did that for I think, 20 years. She was a firefighter. So we do that. And I trained police canines. So when COVID came up until COVID, I have been told Tad, when I was on the the campfire, I said, hey, COVID two has been the best thing in the world for me, because I was doing 250 shows a year. And when COVID came, I could finally take this guy who's not on stage and go to the woods and do what I used to do all the time and get back in hunt. So it's like, hey, I want to go hunt again. And I want to film it because 10 years ago, I was trying to have a bow hunting show. And then also we got so much gigs, so many gigs, we took off like nobody's business. Couldn't do it. And I was like, I don't want to make it about me. What should we make it about? And
Leisa Moses:
it was during the whole George Floyd thing.
Bobby Jensen:
Yeah, yeah, the George Floyd thing was going on COVID was shutting us down. And it's like, okay, I had a couple friends lose their lives from the one was a cop who took his own life and the other one had like a brain aneurysm when he was pheasant hunting. And I thought why don't why don't we just raise money for their kids? Not they can we're going to start a foundation or an organization or anything. It was just what can we do? That doesn't make it about me? Right? So that when I'm filming this we actually have a reason to do this. And then we can find a find or something. And so since her dad was a Minneapolis cop, it only made sense to say at least to get on board with this and make it work with me. Let's raise money for Blake's kids and and try to come up with something so i This is the truth. She hates me saying it. I was on the toilet with my best ideas. And I'm like, yo, do Bobby most like hey, here here's what here's what happens. Right? I had posted on Facebook where can I go hunt because I'm looking to hunt right? I want to I want to just go everywhere I've got time off any state any place it what do you have? So as I'm sitting there thinking, I'm like, hey, everybody who's responded said I could hunt there are all law enforcement guys. So why don't we make it about Blake's kids. And, and we'll call it something and I was thinking of all these different names. And I thought, well, I'm bow hunting for cops bows for badges, and we put the number four in there, if anyone's aware of that, that's code for that means we're all good. When a cop says code for, we're clear, we're good. Things are good. And that's how both for bad just came about is and I called it the hunt tour. Because in my world, knowing music, the only way I know how to promote something like this is to identify like how I did with music, like a rock band. So a rock band would put out a record, and then they tour to support it and try to get people to know about it. So I called it the bows for badgers hunt tour, and would just go around and we visited with these people who were cops went to police department said thank you, we love you brought them cookies, and basically haunted. And then we took the money that we got and
Leisa Moses:
gave it to them for Christmas. Yeah.
Keith Mark:
Yeah, yeah, I can tell matters a lot to you, buddy. And that's awesome. Because your passion comes right through. And I tell you, I want to get into more detail I want to talk about, you know how you find these people. What you do. As far as these hunts, I've seen some of the stuff that you post. I mean, you're putting your film in the hunt, you're putting them online, and when we come back, we're going to get into more detail about what these wonderful people are doing to support. You know, really the people that protect us on a daily basis. Stay tuned for some more right on the mark.
Right On The Mark:
Do you have the spirit of the Wild? If so check out Ted nugent.com. For one stop shopping for concert updates, hunting opportunities with Ted's sunrise safaris, autograph swag, Ted's latest news and anything Ted visit Ted Nugent calm.
Keith Mark:
Welcome back to right on the mark. And some of our best stuff happens on breaks. You know, Bobby, you've got somebody sitting there next to you and I've talked to her on the phone and you both look so much like you belong in the rock industry. Who's there with you?
Bobby Jensen:
This is Lisa Moses McGee,
Keith Mark:
Lisa Moses McGee. Tell us about your background and how you fit into this puzzle.
Leisa Moses:
Also known as lethal Lisa. Oh, well, I grew up in a hunting family also. My whole life. My earliest memories. My both my grandfather's and my dad, all my uncles. I grew up three sisters. We were all treated like we couldn't do anything. If a boy could do it. We could do it. That was the way my dad raised us. So I was out actually killing red squirrels. Before I was five for $5 apiece. They would incentivize it. They told us they were ruining our food. So I was like, I want to eat. So I'm gonna kill every red squirrel. I see. So I was out shooting red squirrels by the time I was five as many as I could.
Keith Mark:
Well, Josh Spencer would have given you $5 to school. I've got to feel there'd be no squirrels in Kansas.
Josh Ishmael:
In Kansas, I'd be rich and fat and happy. Well,
Keith Mark:
well, you got one. I
Bobby Jensen:
wish I could have got paid for the squirrels I go. I
Leisa Moses:
mean, I was I was doing it. And I've always I love fishing. So I've done that my whole entire life. I caught some really good fish this last weekend actually probably the biggest northern I've ever got. Oh, sure. That was for sure. It's huge. Look at my Facebook pictures. It's huge. But um, I my dad was a Minneapolis Police Officer for almost 40 years. And I was actually a corrections officer in prison in Minneapolis for nine years. And I I own I own a rock and roll hair salon, which it's all weird, whatever. But that's kind of how I got into the the celebrity type business and I kind of got out of the I didn't I got out of the corrections police stuff. My dad really did not want me to be a police officer. That was originally what I thought it was going to do. And he's like, why would you want to do that you grew up seeing how hard it is on the family and this and this man worked so hard, put all four of his kids through private school, made sure that we were raised right, retired and died within a year at 61 with cancer, didn't even get to enjoy his life. But every second he wasn't at work. He played hard. He worked hard. He spent it in the woods around the lake. And that's no kidding. He went to Disney World once in my whole life. They didn't offer him anything. He said you can't shoot anything in Disney World.
Bobby Jensen:
Right don't don't do it.
Leisa Moses:
So I am. I've always been a huge supporter of the police and firefighters actually I every Thursday morning we have Minneapolis Police come into my salon and bring us treats and we were they were drink coffee have their little meeting there. It was great. And then the whole COVID thing blew up. And they shut down my salon for four months. The George Floyd thing was going on I we were, I was getting unfriended by people because my father was a police officer. I just found it horrifying. That somebody would not be my friend, my friend. Yeah, because I support law enforcement. And I mean, I don't know how much you know about how it went down here in Minneapolis, but it was ugly.
Bobby Jensen:
Yeah, it's like, you know, I've never been in a war but I bet I could. It was bad. I could relate to what someone could tell me wars. Like, when your whole streets are on fire.
Keith Mark:
You guys are a decade younger you at least you are Bobby a decade younger than me. And when I grew up, you know, our parents told us if you got into trouble find somebody wearing a uniform. How, you know, we knew that we can trust our local police officers, sheriff's. We knew we could trust the firefighters and for just for some unknown reason, in a very short period of time. Of course, I blame the the media. They've just vilified law enforcement. They've just vilified, vilified first responders. With all this just complete garbage defund the police. And and you know, if you look at the numbers, and you guys, I'm sure you have the number of police officers that are killed in the line of duty dwarfs, the number of officer involved shooting on the other side of the deal. It's just out
Leisa Moses:
380 So far this year, killed in the line of duty,
Keith Mark:
I think, and let me I'd like to hear what you guys think. I think this anti cop rhetoric that is just spewing from the media has led to all of this. Yeah, horrible.
Leisa Moses:
Absolutely. I mean, they defunded the police in Minneapolis, which is where my salon was. It led to numerous carjackings and I love and I'm in the nice part of Minneapolis, you know, on the river. I don't know if you know the area, but it's the art district we were getting carjacked. Our clients were not safe. I ended up shutting down my business of 10 years, and having to move into a different location. And I was proud of where I grew up in that area. And it's it's also, you know, the politicians here. They're just, I don't know, they're loony. They're not for the people. That's for sure.
Bobby Jensen:
You wonder who raised them?
Leisa Moses:
Yeah, I have no idea. I can
Keith Mark:
tell you. I mean, you know, what it is, is we now have the we tried trophy generations governing. And so they are of the opinion that you don't have to study to get good grades. You don't have to practice to do well. I mean, these are the people that if we could get them into hunting, they would just think they get to show up and and get the fresh meat for their table regardless of whether they can shoot straight or crooked because everyone gets a trophy right just makes me sick to think about these people and they've completely lost touch with I think and I was in Wisconsin in front of the legislature and we introduced Hunter nation introduced some bills up there and I said that nobody represents we the people better than we the people hunting fishing and trapping families of America.
Bobby Jensen:
Yeah, the and and conservation
Leisa Moses:
itself. Right. And there's a huge problem i where my cabin is which is about 60 miles from Canada with there's like no deer because the Wolf are killing everything. So you there they're not managing it properly, because all the I hate to say do gooders, but that's really what it is. It's like, don't kill him. They just brought him back. It's like, well, no, you're there's not a balance. There's no balance in nature when you let it go that way. No, you're 100 Now they're a nuisance in the city.
Keith Mark:
Well, Nugent says it's best if you don't manage the wildlife. And we want more Bear WE more we want more wolves and cougars and deer and drabs and Buffalo and everything else that roams but they have to be balanced and if they're not, then the bear the wolf, the Cougar, they all go from assets over into the liability column and until we get the the balance right, they're going to remain in the liability common. If you go to Hunter nation.org 100 nation.org You can see the amazing things that Hunter nation is doing. I'm starting in West content on into Montana, Minnesota. We're working on this D listing getting wolves hunted, getting wolves manage like all the other species that are out there. But so, you know, I was like you I saw all these officer involved shootings, I don't even know how if you're a firefighter, you can respond to these calls because your life's in danger. And we have had a number of fallen badges, for lack of a better word, whether that's cops, whether it's firefighters, whether it's EMS, and obviously it touched your guys hearts. Those are real living, breathing, breathing American families that are losing their loved one. And it's, it's wives that are left without husbands. It's husbands that are being left without their wives. And it's, it's kids, unfortunately, it's these little kids, these young Americans that are growing up without their parent. And so it obviously touched your guy's heart. So what do you do about it?
Bobby Jensen:
Well, yeah, and they're also our friends. I mean, I trained with these guys for, I don't know, 10 years. So I mean, that's how I got into bounty hunting. They were like, man, you, you should come through this class. And I was raising police dogs, or, you know, just trying to get them ready to go to police departments. And I didn't really know what I was doing. I was raising them. But I didn't, because I wasn't in law enforcement. I didn't understand all the the aspects of what the dog was going to do on the job. So Mark McDonough said, Hey, do you want to do this, you want to go through my class and try this out? And I thought, yeah, that was the greatest gift of all. So I did it. I went through the whole 12 weeks with all these police canine guys who were going through to get their dogs from, I don't know, the five state area, there was 12 weeks of pure hell that they go through to learn how to be a canine handler, because a lot of these guys are on the SWAT team. And you know, you don't want the SWAT team coming out. Yeah. But no matter how good they were, and are, once you put a leash in their hands, things change. Because now they go, Well, what about the dog? Right? So there was a lot of that. And now I'm saying, Okay, well, they don't just get the dog and feel good about themselves and go with 100% competence, they have to really be trained to trust the dog, and to find everything. So I did that. And then a few, maybe a couple years later, throughout this course that I did, I want to find a police Tahoe, decked it out, because you know, if you're going to go to the gym, train, in gym clothes, so I did everything I was going to need to do to show the respect to these guys. Because even though I wasn't learning this for my job, these guys were learning to save their lives. What if I got in the way they could die? So I had to take it 100%, serious, 200% serious, you know, I figured I'm going to dress like it. I'm going to show up every day. And I'm going to give it 100% monda, graduating the class, got a car, got the dogs, I've got five of them. Five dogs right now that can all do great, wonderful things. And I'll get on to what we just did yesterday and today with one of them. So they're like, Hey, you got some skills? What have you ever thought about being a bounty hunter? And I was like, I Yeah, why not? Right. So I've been doing that for five years. So I train with these people on a weekly basis a lot. Like when Ted talks about how he gets to go out and do that, I actually do that. I put on my badge I put on my bulletproof vest, and I go knock on doors and bring people to jail. But when, when everything came down with the George Floyd, it got so dangerous, that it wasn't the risk wasn't worth the reward anymore. And it was time to let the guys who do this for a living do it. And so, you know, I still go and train with the guys and I'll still bring someone in now and then but it's changed a lot for me to where I just go. Maybe Maybe my best value is helping their kids if they don't come home.
Keith Mark:
So tell me how tell me what that's all about. Tell me what Bozen badges do for the kids have fallen cars for.
Leisa Moses:
For badgers we raise. So we raised money. So the kids can be a part of any kind of event that we do. We try and do archery events, any kind of outdoor events. He's got all sorts of certifications in that I just do archery. But we literally the kids are getting financial support from both for badges so we just send them checks. Those do not have to be the kids that want to go hunting or go on a turkey hunt with me. Like through the end WTF. I did that mentor program. They don't need to be the kids that are actually from a fallen so they could be any kid. We just want to keep introducing kids to the greatest outdoors because they're I mean that obviously they don't do that anymore. They don't teach that in school, they're busy doing all their other things. But the way that we give back is, is financially through financial gifts that we get through don't donations, I throw Ladies Night archery events, where I teach what I don't even have to teach him, he does the teaching, I basically show up. And we have a great time trying to get women out doing things because they're intimidated, they really are, I've, I've had a very hard time trying to find any women to go hunting with me. I can't, I've got like two, I mean, I've reached out to numerous people, and they're just like, they're nervous about it. It's just not something that's the norm in today's society, unless you're involved in like, Hunter nation, which we both are members. And, you know, I would love to get involved in doing something here in Minnesota even bigger with that. But, um, any way that we can raise money, I mean, we'll go play concerts, we just did a Veterans Benefit. Because we have our band too, we have things that we can, we can put out there to raise money in a lot of different ways. We're doing the Minnesota Fire Chiefs Association conference on Thursday, we'll just go there, and support all these fire chiefs, all the fire departments for the whole entire state. And we've been hitting open houses and hope that we get donations and give back and anybody who gives us a name of a child, they're going to go on the list, and we just anonymously send them checks at Christmas time.
Keith Mark:
Well, tell me. Do you have some examples of some of the kids that you guys have actually touched?
Bobby Jensen:
Well, because it's still
Leisa Moses:
kind of, it's only a year old. Blew up, it was only supposed to be our plan was sorry, was was cops. And then it was like, Well, what about this firefighter? I know, because he committed suicide. And he's got two little kids. And we're like, Oh, absolutely. And then there's this ambulance driver. And we're you know what we're like, you know what, everybody who's out there on the frontlines, we don't care how you lost your life, you're leaving a child behind. If if they somebody gets us their name, we're gonna help them no matter what it is. So that's we asked for that emails with the names all over the country doesn't matter.
Bobby Jensen:
Yeah, the hardest thing for us is to find the kids too, believe it or not.
Leisa Moses:
Privacy Rules. Well,
Keith Mark:
guys, this. So people that are listening right now, if they want to help you, either financially, or if they know of a kid, how do they reach
Bobby Jensen:
out? Just go to contact, go to our website
Keith Mark:
with his email?
Bobby Jensen:
What is your website, the email, or the website is both for badges. It's B, O Ws, like bows and arrows, the number for badges.org. And we are a 501. Where we were all legit on the nonprofit stuff. And they can they can find us that way. And the thing that's been the hardest, you're asking, like what we've done, the money that we did last year went to those kids of the the families that I knew, so So this is our second year, and, and we've got a couple people on the list. But the hardest thing for us once we got going and this is no lie. You try to use social media to be social, and it won't let you it will not. So if I post a picture of my dog on Facebook, I'll get 10,000 likes I got I have 5000 friends. I've been a celebrity for 30 years. But if I post anything with the bows for badges link, it'll say 24 People saw this in like a day or two. So what's going on there that? Yeah, we everybody in their brother saw my dog, but nobody saw that they could help this kid out. It's it's weird to me. And it's ridiculous. So that again goes back to our grass roots type of thing of running this like a band type of thing, which I was explaining is let's just go to these open houses. Yeah, let's just go to where they are, instead of trying to get them to find us online. So the people who are listening to this can go to our website, both for badgers.org and find us because that's how people are coming to us. We've got outfitters people who might want to donate a bow, somebody who might say we have land in Omaha. And so if you know of a child in Lincoln or anywhere who wants to hunt, let them know they can come here. So they're not necessarily hunting with us, but we're making that connection between the child and the place he can go. So they're not all just coming with us on these hunt, tour extravaganza things. But we put them in touch with the people who can help and I think that's what God wants is to help you help guide them to where they can go?
Keith Mark:
Yeah, you know, I think as you guys continue to grow, I think you're going to end up being so big that there would absolutely be no way in the world that you can have actual hands on contact with every one of these kids. Because I see things getting a lot rougher for our first responders thing getting better in the immediate future. I mean, with some of the current policies that are coming down, starting at the national level with what's going on up in the DC, woods the these days and then on into these local venues where they're defunding the police all across the country. I think you guys unfortunately, going to have your hands full here. With with literally, I think those people are going to have blood on their hands. And I'm just just so honored to be visiting with you guys. Because, you know, you're actually picking up the pieces and trying to make Right, right? Once they fall,
Bobby Jensen:
I can look at when you look at that our dreams came true. I want to be a rock star, I got to do that. I don't know a record company a dime. But I've got to live like one I've traveled and tour buses done 1000s of shows around the world. You know, that's pretty cool. And you look at a low, you look at it and you say, Well, what can I do to help bring the next kid, right? And you go, Well, none of this would happen. And I came up with this a long time ago, fear streets aren't safe, your dreams aren't safe. And there isn't a kid that's going to go play football, dance, know that they're worried about getting shot at on their way to the field. So, you know, I try to tell kids look, get off the couch and get to the woods somehow. If you can come with us, we're trying to put together little shoots. It's like the best PlayStation you can ever be involved with is the one in the woods. That's you know, that's your best gaming device yet. You know, like Bret bear would say you really want a thrill go tango with the grizzly. Yeah, let's let's go do that. I'm all game for it. So we did have a an outfitter, reach out to us and offer us have four person hunt in Africa that we're going to try to come up and give to somebody here pretty soon, we haven't figured out how we're going to do this. I think we want to come up with a way to whoever can raise the most money can get the drawing to go. And hopefully we get all these different departments around the US to do this. And I think that will help get us there. And that's a hunt that will be on. That's no. So that would be fun. You know, I don't know if anyone wants to hunt with us. We're just nobodies for Minneapolis. It's not like you're going with Ted or somebody famous. But we'll be famous soon. So, you know,
Keith Mark:
you keep doing the right thing. Oh, Lisa, Bobby, thanks for joining us. And really thank you. Our much respect goes out to you guys for what we're doing for those that are on the front lines. God bless you guys.
Leisa Moses:
Thank you so much for having us.
Keith Mark:
Right, because when we come back, I want to talk to Josh a little bit about some of the social media was that you talked about? Because I think he's dealing with some of that in the hunter nation world. When we come right back on right on the
Right On The Mark:
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Keith Mark:
You know what, Josh, I tell you, you know, I love listening to Bobby and Lisa. I mean, their passion just actually flowed right through the screen. I mean, these are people that really know right from wrong, as Bobbi was saying at the end, you know,
Josh Ishmael:
and they get it right. And they're doing God's work getting out there and helping the Fallen kids, the first responders and God love him for it.
Keith Mark:
Oh, no kidding. And you know, you know, as well as I know, when Hunter nation was planning all of our, you know, road tour, in 2020, we were getting shut down from COVID. You know, we had to adapt, we had to move on to something different than do this. And that's what I loved it what they were talking about. So hey, if a kid doesn't want to go get a boat, I mean, go fish kid doesn't want to fish, we'll go do something else. We'll shoot a pheasant if they don't want to do that. We'll pick something else. I mean, the bottom line is they recognize that our law enforcement really our first responders, just like our military are all under attack. They're in the crosshairs of these liberal left. You know, I just I can't think of a better word than pieces. Uh, you know what, Josh, I mean, that literally don't recognize how important it is that you can't have law and order if you don't have law enforcement. So I mean, you know, and these these people, they're just wonderful. I'm so glad that Shimei Nugent hooked me up with Lisa. And then of course, I mean, what a pleasure to visit with Bobby. I mean, my God, he's a rock star. He's a bounty hunter. I mean, in Plus, he's a hunter like us. It's pretty cool.
Josh Ishmael:
No doubt and you figure they were in the middle of it. They were in Minneapolis. So they got to witness that firsthand that the evil that happened up there.
Keith Mark:
Yeah, you know what I was actually making a little list during breaks of the people that I'm going to sic Bobby on if they ever pissed me off any more than what they have already. But anyway, hey, listen, I hope you enjoyed the show. But before you hang up here before you turn us off, go to bows for badgers bows for badgers and help these people out. I mean, drop them a dime, drop them, drop them a big check, help them out, because what they're doing is they're helping first responders out. It'll be money very well spent. And also if you know somebody, if you know a family of a fallen hero, get on the website. They've got a place that tell them about the kids that need to help and they'll go help those kids to bows for badges. That's it for today's right on the mark. Come back next time. We'll have some more something right here right on the mark.
Right On The Mark:
right on the mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on right on the mark are not necessarily those of our host guests or sponsor. right on the mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of bone arrow productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions copyright 2021.
Episode 28-30 featuring John Bolin - Law Enforcement and ASPCA Investigator
John Bolin has worn many hats in law enforcement over his long career and most recently worked for the ASPCA (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) as an “investigator”. John shares that he did no investigating and was merely hired to gain credibility for the ASCPCA as they reached out to local police and sheriff offices to “help” them deal with issue involving “animal cruelty” as they define it. His experience taught him they were using local and federal law enforcement to assist their efforts to end hunting and farming and ranching operations.
John Bolin has worn many hats in law enforcement over his long career and most recently worked for the ASPCA (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) as an “investigator”. John shares that he did no investigating and was merely hired to gain credibility for the ASCPCA as they reached out to local police and sheriff offices to “help” them deal with issue involving “animal cruelty” as they define it. His experience taught him they were using local and federal law enforcement to assist their efforts to end hunting and farming and ranching operations.
Right On The Mark 0:00
This transcription is auto-generated, any errors are unintentional.
Right on the mark episode 28 Part One of three featuring John Bolin, recorded October 2021. starts right now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, He's humorous, and a bit hot headed. But when it comes to all things, God Family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 0:43
Welcome to another right on the mark podcast. And boy, I tell you what, Josh, you've aged a little bit, you've gotten a bit thinner. Full disclosure, this is not Josh. This is our producer, my longtime friend, Tim Lamar, Tim, welcome to right on the mark is the sidekick today. Well, hey,
Right On The Mark 1:05
Keith, you know, I always prefer to be on the other side of the mic, or the camera or the whatever. But it's great to be with you today. And especially for the guests that we have on the topic, we're going to be Copics we're going to be covering,
Keith Mark 1:16
you know what this is, I'm really pretty excited because well, obviously, one of my favorite movies is the fugitive. So to actually have a real Tommy Lee Jones, you know, a US Marshal,
John Bolin 1:30
here we go. So I'm like,
Keith Mark 1:32
I'm wondering, I'm like, you know, I'm trying to think of all the things that we've done Tim and in our history, and I don't think either of us are live leaving in cuffs. But you know what's interesting, what we're going to talk about today is I don't know what he's gonna say, obviously, I've never never met him. We're not friends. I'm excited to visit with him. But I think the the people that we're going to be talking about today, Tim, I think they're domestic terrorists. I believe they're anti American at their heart, and they're Korean. And honestly, I think they're dadgum sham ours. And I'm just curious to get John's take and our guest today is obviously John Bolin, and John, what a what a history this guy's had. He was a local sheriff. He was a US Marshal. And then he got hired by as a CA A SPCA? What's that an acronym for Tim?
Right On The Mark 2:24
Well, it's the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and you know them, you know them better as if you could help just one animal for $19 a day and Sarah McLaughlin, and
Keith Mark 2:39
yeah, yeah, let's get her on next. I'd love to talk to her. I'd give her $19 to come on visit with this.
Right On The Mark 2:48
Well, you'd find out most of it didn't actually go to it would go to someone else. And if John doesn't take us there, we've done a little bit of research on our own. And when you talk about the world of green decoys and wolves in sheep's clothing, I think we've got one of those in our crosshairs today.
Keith Mark 3:07
Well, you know, when you told me that we were going to visit with John, it made me think of James O'Keefe with Project Veritas. And I would be curious, and I'm going to ask John this. So if he actually videotaped secretly some of his meat I'd be curious, right? Because, you know, that's what James does, you know, um, he videos, people saying what they really believe, but they don't think other people are going to hear it, you know, kind of like what our parents used to tell us. You know, your character is really what you do and no one's looking. So I hope John can give us some input. You know, Tim, as well as I know, and Hunter nation is working on this as we speak right now, but in the state of Oregon. They're trying to ban hunting by including that as animal cruelty, regardless of whether you eat the animal or not. What in the world Well, listen, stay tuned because this is going to be an interesting show because I have no idea where it's going to go other than there's a a wolf at my door. I hear him howling and barking and so any which way we're gonna get John Bolin on here, and let's just let's just see where this goes. Stay tuned for a, I think going to be a very interesting and informative right on the mark.
Right On The Mark 4:25
right on the mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation, Hunter nation defends all of our traditional American values, God Family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American Hunter by visiting Hunter nation.org today,
Keith Mark 4:44
welcome back to right on the mark. And with no further ado, John Bolin. John, welcome to right on the mark.
John Bolin 4:51
Thank you. It's an honor to be here with you with both of you.
Keith Mark 4:55
Well, uh, you know, did a little bit of research into your background Tim Let me know I mean obviously you Tommy, Tommy Lee Jones played you on the fugitive right you were a US marshals.
John Bolin 5:07
Oh man. Yeah. You know, honestly it. It was a the highlight of my career the opportunity to be on the US Marshals Fugitive Task Force. And I wasn't a full time. Yes, Marshal I was assigned to the US Marshals, like so many other local and state level law enforcement officers were after 911. They created a lot of joint task forces with the federal agencies. And
Keith Mark 5:37
what was your state your your county sheriff or a local sheriff we're at?
John Bolin 5:43
in Indiana. I started my career as a deputy sheriff and then actually had the honor really, my I consider it an honor to have served my country in the capacities that I did. I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the State of Indiana and of the United States of America. And it was an honor. I was able to work as at the county, city, state and federal
Keith Mark 6:06
level in my career. Well, and it sounds like it was that background that brought you to where I'm interested in hearing some of your stories because it was through that law enforcement background. That you got hired by ASPCA as some sort of an investigator is that right?
John Bolin 6:24
That's right. Before we get into that,
Keith Mark 6:27
I'm damn interested in that. Don't get me wrong, but I just can't leave Tommy Lee Jones in the fugitive alone here. You gotta you gotta tell us can't tell. You got to tell us something you got to give us glory here now.
John Bolin 6:40
I would have handled things differently than Tommy Lee Jones. Probably I don't know. I just shot
Keith Mark 6:47
minutes. stories tell me something you've done that it was pretty hair raising or exciting.
John Bolin 6:54
Um, you know, I did, I had a lot of interesting things, a lot of interesting experiences as a US Marshal, special deputy US Marshal. But I had the nastiest fight in my entire career, while I was a deputy US Marshal, but probably the more exciting things were the seven years that I worked in plainclothes undercover capacity for the state of Indiana. I investigated organized crime, criminal enterprises that survived on the illegal gambling racket. And that Job was was interesting. And I at one point in time had had been identified in an undercover capacity in a business downtown Indianapolis and fortunately, the FBI was also working investigation in the same place and caught wind that I had been identified and they were planning to do harm to me. And they contacted my boss and let him know why. But yeah, things like that.
Keith Mark 8:04
So you're not you're not short on the ball meter then is when
John Bolin 8:09
I, you know, it's interesting because I just it that developed over time and early in my career. As a deputy sheriff. I've never been a really big guy. And I decided early on that I was going to become well trained. And I was an instructor, law enforcement instructor my entire career, I instructed physical tactics, close quarter combat tactical knife my entire career. And I did that. Beginning, I did that in the beginning for myself, because I knew I needed it, and had some really great mentors, Bob Black, who's now retired from the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy, Dr. Paul Weitzel, who is in the martial arts Hall of Fame and Joe Roop, who's passed away. I had some great mentors in law enforcement world that I listened to paid attention to.
Keith Mark 9:04
So So So are you a hunter?
John Bolin 9:07
I am a hunter. I'm not an active hunter. I was raised hunting and trapping in rural Indiana. And but I it's something that I plan to get back into, not opposed to it by any means. Absolutely not 100% in support of it.
Keith Mark 9:24
So um, obviously you're you're an an an animal advocate. You probably have pets, you have pets.
John Bolin 9:32
I have pets.
Keith Mark 9:34
I heard your dog bark a while ago.
John Bolin 9:36
Yeah, I had to send a text to have someone put him outside or somewhere.
Keith Mark 9:40
I hope he didn't call the folks there at ASPCA because who knows what would happen to the dog at that point?
John Bolin 9:46
They they probably wouldn't answer my call.
Keith Mark 9:48
Probably not. So what would it be fair for our listeners to believe that it was your background in law enforcement that attracted you to them or them to you vice versa.
John Bolin 10:03
That's exactly what happened. And to be even more specific, we had the group that I was in, had started investigating animal fighting because of the gambling aspect of animal fighting.
Keith Mark 10:18
So professionally before you retired? Yeah, looking into that.
John Bolin 10:23
Yeah. So I had the HS us Humane Society of the United States contacted my boss at the time, and said, Hey, we, we know you guys are a gambling unit. And we have a international cockfighting operation in the state of Indiana that we have discovered. Would you be interested in investigating that? And we did. He assigned that case to me, that was the first animal fighting case that the Indiana Gaming Commission had gotten involved in. And it was based off the the gambling, that's prevalent in animal fighting, so I was assigned that case and, and work that case, that's that case, went to trial and went all the way to the appellate court here in the state of Indiana,
Keith Mark 11:12
animal fighting, like cockfighting dog fighting. That's legal in Indiana, as well as I believe every other state in the union. Is that right?
John Bolin 11:20
It is, yes, it's illegal in all 50 states. In fact, it's a felony now in all 50 states,
Keith Mark 11:25
and that's why you as in your law enforcement capacity, when you get the phone call, Hey, somebody is committing a crime. Here, here it is you investigated. Right? Right. No different than if somebody called and said, Hey, look, there's illegal gambling going on and vetoes bar, go to vetoes bar and look into illegal gambling. And so because one there was illegal gambling going on into the felony of animal fighting, law enforcement wanted to stop illegal activities in Indiana. And that said, John, they're in your law enforcement capacity. Right, right. And now and, and I'm going to kind of go fast forward a whole long way, just as a teaser for our listeners. Eventually, you get involved with these people. And their motives were far different than what they allege to you when you got involved. Absolutely. That
John Bolin 12:17
was the beginning of the way their modus operandi, that was the beginning of how they get how they infiltrate law enforcement, prosecutors, judges, every level of the judicial system is infiltrated and controlled at some degree, depending on what state you're in by these animal rights extremists.
Keith Mark 12:37
Wow. Well, I tell you why. That's a good segue. We we have a quick break, John. And when we come back, you're going to tell us what these people are really up to stay tuned for some more right on the
Right On The Mark 12:50
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Keith Mark 13:06
welcome back to right on the mark and we're with John Bolin, former law enforcement sheriff and worked with the US Marshal Service. But we don't have Josh Ishmael cam with us today. We got our producer Tim Lamar on here today. And, and one of the things that Tim does with the show, John is he does a lot of the in the trenches research for us. And one of the things that Tim was talking to me about before we came on here is that your background really was and you can speak to this, how different law enforcement agencies whether it's local, state, or even at the federal level, at many times in different operations, they have to work very closely together. And because of the interactions between the various agencies, you built up a lot of relationships, not only at the local, and county and state level, but also at the Fed level. Is that true? That's true.
John Bolin 14:05
And and that, you know, that's always been the case throughout history. But as I mentioned earlier, that really ramped up after 911 Because they had they saw the need for clear communication across departments. And that there's always there's always a little bit of ego that enters into to a police officer and a department where they want to hold on to Intel, they want to hold on to an investigation not share with another agency for whatever reason, usually just ego right and so, I did I had the opportunity to work with a lot of federal law enforcement agencies in fact i i sat on some some federal wiretaps with the FBI during my career also,
Keith Mark 14:47
what exciting stuff. So at some point in time as as I always want to miss this acronym ASPCA. What's that stand for? Anyway, John,
John Bolin 14:57
the American Society for prevention of Cruelty to Animals That was founded in the 1800s. By Berg,
Keith Mark 15:05
I don't think there's anybody on the planet that wouldn't agree with that, just in general terms, we all want to prevent the cruelty to animals. But what we'll figure out whether they really live up to their name, but so how did they come into your world? After you retired? Did they solicit you? Or did you reach out to them? How'd that happen? No, I
John Bolin 15:26
actually, the HS us, as I mentioned, was the first animal rights organization that our department worked with. And when that case went to trial, it was discovered during the trial that John Goodwin, they the individual from HS us who still works there, that had been the person that contacted my boss, it was discovered, the defense attorney told us that he was affiliated previously with the Animal Liberation Front, who was who was still on the Animal Liberation Front is still listed as a domestic terrorist in this country.
Keith Mark 16:03
Do you know why do you know what they did? Why would they be on that list? Because that's pretty big stuff to be on that list.
John Bolin 16:09
Well, the animal Animal Liberation Front and an elf elf the environmental arm of that, well, they're there. They'll stop at nothing to carry out their agenda, their their ideology, that it's It's insanity. It's called T shirts, it borders on a religious wild on borders on it. These people are convinced that this is their duty while
Keith Mark 16:35
they do what did Simon did they blow something up late. Oh, the Animal Liberation
John Bolin 16:39
Front had there several cases that were they they just go into property and commit vandalism and arson, and they release animals just really save animals from operations. And John Goodwin was the defense attorney brought that forth in the courtroom. So that was an embarrassment. And it wasn't too long after that, that that the department quit using HS us for assistance on these animal cases and and went to their brother or sister organization, the ASPCA.
Keith Mark 17:15
Okay, so for a minute. So basically, what you found out through your trial, when you were still in active law enforcement was that the Humane Society actually worked closely with a known domestic terrorist group.
John Bolin 17:32
Well, not that they not, I can't say that I know they worked with ALS. But they all of these individuals interchange, they, they go from one organization to the next. The ASPCA and Hs us have people at the senior level senior staff level that they just they just go back and forth from organization to organization.
Keith Mark 17:55
And I think if someone could do some in depth, investigating, whether that's financial accounting, forensic audit of some sort,
John Bolin 18:08
did you read my notes somehow?
Keith Mark 18:09
Yeah, well, I'm just putting the ball on the tee on some ideas that I'm thinking you might be able to carry out for? Do you think if if the onion got peeled back immensely, that there's something more here than meets the eye, John,
John Bolin 18:26
there's absolutely more here than meets the eye. And if we had anyone in the Department of Justice, in a position where they could open up an investigation, a RICO investigation into these organizations, it would blow people's minds,
Keith Mark 18:40
give me the list of the organizations that you think ought to be invest?
John Bolin 18:44
Well, the two big ones, and I'll tell you why. I believe this. And I've said this several times in public speaking, the ASPCA and the HS us are the top on my list. And there's because of their deception, they're vies you if you take an organization like PETA, or Direct Action Everywhere, dxc these are the people that everybody knows what Peter does, they, you know, they're gonna throw bread pain on you in front of the for business or whatever. Direct Action Everywhere, goes on to or farms and releases animals. They go into mass production, slaughterhouses, and those type of packaging plants and chain themselves to conveyors and things like that. They make no bones about it. I have more respect for those two organizations than I do the ASPCA and HTSUS. Because they're in your face. This is what we do. This is what we're about. The ASPCA and Hs us want people to believe that they're there for the welfare of the animal that they are assisting local shelters in some capacity, that they're here for us if we need them during times of disaster, things like that. And and they're the deception is disgusting.
Keith Mark 20:02
Well, they have to be raising a ton of money because Tim mentioned this in the open John that, you know, do it. Tim, you do such a great Sarah McLaughlin. Do it, do it. Do it one more time.
John Bolin 20:13
Don't make me cry that person so sad. Yes, for just $19
Right On The Mark 20:17
a month a week, I can just just keep giving it
Keith Mark 20:24
they're gonna save some poor innocent dog, or are they not doing that, John,
John Bolin 20:30
you think well, just let me touch on that $19 a month. It. Somebody recently did the math on that. And it was an unbelievable amount of money. But But let me tell you about another department at the ASPCA. In their headquarters in New York City. They have a full staff of folks that handle a state's only that's all they do their estate attorneys. Because there are so many people that die and leave their entire state to these organizations. There should be a forensic audit. And I've been saying forensic audit before forensic audit, it's been in the news, by the way, I've been saying it for a long time on a different topic. But there needs I'd like
Keith Mark 21:09
to see forensic audits on a lot of topics. I want
John Bolin 21:12
to there needs to be forensic audits on these organizations. There's so much money, so much power that the forensic audits that I would like for them to focus on would be the grant program, the grants program that goes to law enforcement agencies and humane society, local humane societies. And all that grant is is a bribe. It's a bribe. You do our bidding, we'll give you the money. But we're going to check in on you make sure you're doing what you're supposed to be doing with the money.
Keith Mark 21:41
Okay. Now, wait a minute. You just said that this group is using donated money. Say that again that I missed some here.
John Bolin 21:52
Would you say they they're a nonprofit organization using donated money to give law enforcement departments all over the country grants. So they can investigate animal cruelty. But it has to follow the guidelines of the ASPCA.
Keith Mark 22:10
So the as PCA because they're dangling the money carrot over local law enforcement controls the investigations in some way.
John Bolin 22:21
They control the investigation in a lot of ways that they once they get involved in an investigation with a law enforcement department, the law enforcement department has to sign an MOU with the ASPCA. What does that mean a memorandum of understanding a contract they have to sign that can't enter into a contract when they request assistance from the ASPCA.
Keith Mark 22:44
And funny, are we talking here we talking about 25 bucks, so they can all get a lunch while they're working?
John Bolin 22:50
Oh, the grants go from five to 10,000 to on up? I mean, I don't know. But it's usually five or $10,000 increments. And they though use it and say that it's for equipment. It's for investigating equipment tools that these departments use, what does
Keith Mark 23:05
it go to do you know have any idea? It goes
John Bolin 23:08
usually goes for those purposes. However, there are cases within the ASPCA that I believe that money has has come right back into the pockets of some individuals to use for things that they shouldn't have been using it for
Keith Mark 23:28
as part of these memorandums of agreement. Does this mean some information or document sharing goes on that would not be aboveboard in a normal investigation.
John Bolin 23:41
That's exactly what happens. And many, many times I've witnessed this firsthand, and in fact, hate to admit it, but delivered a probable cause affidavit on a few different occasions was whether it be electronically or actually in paper form. The ASPCA is legal department will draft the entire probable cause affidavit for animal cruelty case and the officer will sign the bottom as the defiant and take it to a judge. So whose investigation is it really
Keith Mark 24:12
well, and so like in the course of investigations, you know, you talk to suspects you talk to witnesses, you talk to people that may have information you sometimes they do or don't have information, but I mean a good investigator, I mean he throws a very wide net and so you're keeping copious notes and if you know we're talking to dog breeder summer legal, some maybe not some using way above tactics, maybe some not. But the list of all of those good, bad, innocent, innocent bystanders
John Bolin 24:50
that I've seen information, including social security numbers of suspects, stored in an ASP CIA database. I have seen I know of cases within the ASPCA where the ASPCA investigator which by the way, they're not investigators, I was not an investigator. It was a joke. It was a job title that basically makes it sound like that you're someone who can to law enforcement. They will they were you. What were you? I was I was, I would describe it more as a wall enforcement liaison. They hire law enforcement to gain credibility in the law enforcement world.
Keith Mark 25:37
And so because they worked with John Bolin, this former Sheriff, former member of this task force for the US Marshal Service, then the local agencies had way more confidence in the ASPCA than they ever shipped.
John Bolin 25:51
Absolutely, absolutely. Way more confidence and sad sad to say that I was a part of that for three
Keith Mark 25:57
what were they doing with this information? They're not supposed to what they store
John Bolin 26:01
the information in databases, they that I was about to mention that I knew of a case where a law enforcement agency in Florida handed over cell phone records to an ASPCA employ. So they could look at the cell phone records and and interpret them to see if there was dogfighting terminology in the in the conversations.
Keith Mark 26:25
Now, is there some culpability for that out there? I mean, what I mean, that just doesn't seem like proper procedure,
John Bolin 26:33
a nonprofit organization with a clear agenda. They shouldn't be on your property, first and foremost, they on your physical property in your home, but they shouldn't have access to all this information. They're not law enforcement officers, they're not held to the same standards as law enforcement officers. They don't have an objective opinion, when they're looking at a crime. They have an agenda, a clear agenda. What is it? What is the agenda, your opinion, their agenda is to either completely stop animal ownership of any kind, or restrict it so heavily, that you're just gonna throw up your arms and walk away. There's farmers doing that all over this country right now. That cannot they can't abide by these rules or regulations being pushed on them, and they're just going out of business.
Keith Mark 27:18
Now, you know, when you said animal ownership, I assure you that more than half of the folks listening right now thought dogs, cats, birds, you know, the things that we domestic pets that we're used to having. But it's it's far broader than that your cows and horses and pigs and goats and sheep, and we've gone
John Bolin 27:40
beyond it. Any animal. There were cases here in Indiana, specifically, that I'll refer to because I was on the scene. There were cases that were animal fighting cases that they came onto the property and they begin to wander around in places they shouldn't have been until they spotted other animals, including beagles hunting dogs, and tried to seize those if it hadn't been for another officer and the Indiana Board of Animal Health, stepping in saying absolutely not. These animals are not part of this case, you're not seizing these animals, they would have taken every animal off the property. Well, that usually when they go onto a property, no matter what the case is, they're going to put eyes on every animal on that property. And I'm, I'm talking about even the fish in a fish tank.
Keith Mark 28:24
But you don't see this. This isn't part of their commercials, John, I mean, their commercials are showing these emaciated, emaciated dogs that, you know, not well taken care of. And they're gonna save these little dogs. But they don't ever show I'm trying to bring in cattle trucks and take cows out of a pasture or horses out of a corral or pigs out of it. That's why I do it. That's what you're telling us?
John Bolin 28:49
That's absolutely right. They want to do it. They're the biggest case they ever had. They bragged about it was all over the news was in Massachusetts, Westport, Massachusetts, where they seized over 1000 farm animals from a property there. It was a tenant farm property. There were people that were renting out sections of a large property so they could raise a few animals. A lot of them were raising the animals that were they were feeding them out. They were feedlots where they were feeding them out and taking them to auction or to slaughter and someone want went onto the property for a legal purpose and observe things that they thought was outside of the realm of what it should have been in the way that the animals were being cared for. And I will say that there were some animals, they're in bad condition. I was on that scene for a long time. And but that case ended up getting thrown out. After being in litigation, several individuals pled guilty, and if they would have stuck it out, they would have been, they would have been free also because that case ended up being thrown out.
Keith Mark 29:51
So before the case got thrown out, some of the people that were in the crosshairs either because it was ruined in their family just with the public The city or they didn't have the money to fight it at the level other people did. They threw in the towel and pled this up. And they didn't do that. Ultimately, the government said there was no case there. Right? And that that's, that is the cloud. That is the power of this, not for profit, you know, ASPCA group, and they can do that just run roughshod over individuals? Absolutely. You lose your due process rights somewhere along the way.
John Bolin 30:30
You do you do, there's that that's one of the biggest problems in animal cruelty cases, or any kind of animal, where case where these individuals get involved and seize property is immediately it's in the media, because they want to fundraise off of the backs of this stuff. So you're convicted in the media. In the public's eye, you're convicted before you ever go to trial, usually, sometimes even before the animals are off the property. They're doing a press release. And there's, there's coercion that takes place, I'm just going to call it exactly what it is. It's coercion. When these police officers are on the scene, and I'm referring to my brothers in blue, they know where I stand with them, I would still go into harm's way with any of them. But this is a bunch of stuff that needs to be called out needs to stop. They'll go on to the scene with these animal rights organizations. And they will, they will tell them that police officers and the animal rights folks will say you need to surrender these animals over to us because you're not going to be able to afford the the day that cost of care that the court is going to order you pay, you have to pay if your animals are seized, you have to post what they call a bond in animal care cost. If you if you don't want to relinquish ownership during the court process, so they use coercion and threats, people sign over these animals, to the the law enforcement agency on the scene, the law enforcement agency, the same form, I have copies of these forms, I kept a lot of this stuff when I started to see the writing on the wall. Of course, that's my background, so that on the same form, there's the animal relinquishment form. And then there's the surrender form, or transfer, I'm sorry, transfer of ownership for the animals or surrender to the law enforcement agency because legally, an animal rights organization can't, can't do that. They're surrendered and transfer of ownership occurs on the same document, to the ASPCA, HS, us whatever animal rights organization happens to be on your property at the time.
Keith Mark 32:37
And what do they do with these animals?
John Bolin 32:38
They take the animals and they put them in shelters, temporary shelters, they'll take them and decide if they if the animal should be euthanized, or if it can be adopted out. There's so many stories and they sell them. Can they sell them? Well, they they they don't call it sell them. It's adoption fees. So adoption fees,
Keith Mark 33:01
they save these animals from you. And if they can't adopt them out for a fee, they kill them.
John Bolin 33:11
No, they, I mean, they I can only speak for what I have witnessed myself, the animals that are euthanized are animals with either that or have serious health problems or behavioral problems. But again, the same problem is these are the self proclaimed experts who's got a question if they say the animal, if they say this, this animal needs to be put down, they're gonna put it down with everybody.
Keith Mark 33:39
That's my point. If you look at the length of time that dogs are in Humane Society shelters, it is so short, so they, Hey, give us your money. We're going to save these dogs. Oh, they're at the shelter two days. euthanased you know, so I mean, they hold they hold all these cards, John, when they take these animals from farmers and look, I'm not a rocket scientist. Okay, but I love history. And so I live in Kansas. So I love Plains Indians history. So everyone knows that the quality of horse was everything to Plains Indians. They did everything you know, for the survival of their horse. So when we get into the summer, horses, we're healthy. We get into the fall healthy as we roll through the winter, less food on the ground, the Indian ponies became poor. And it's that's why a lot of times our government attacked them during the winter months because their horses weren't capable of performing at the level needed. Now then, when the spring came and the prairie grass grows, the horses became healthier again and the cycle continues. If these dips were around back in those days The ASPCA shows up to all these Indian encampments, and they take their ponies, right. Poor white poor health, right? Well,
John Bolin 35:10
that's all it takes is some do gooder to drive down the road and see something in a field. And to call the ASPCA or an HS us or anybody else that's one of these ideological terrorist basically, they call them and complain about the situation and investigation opens
Keith Mark 35:29
this and this is sinister John. And when we come back, I want to talk about sounds to me we need to talk about the Green New Deal. And kind of the connection with what you're talking about and that agenda, um, and some other things and I want to get into the their position on hunting, which I think is going to shock. Most people listening. So if you want to hear us talk about the Green New Deal, okay, and a little bit about how this ASPCA approaches hunting. Stay tuned, we'll be right back.
Right On The Mark 35:59
right on the mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on right on the mark are not necessarily those of our host guests or sponsors. right on the mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of bone marrow productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions copyright 2021.
Right On The Mark 0:00
right on the mark Episode 29, part two of three featuring John Bolin recorded October 2021. starts right now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, He's humorous, and a bit hot headed. But when it comes to all things, God Family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 0:45
Hey, welcome back. Our guest is John Bolin. And what an interesting guest you are, John, I mean, you're your law enforcement background, your law enforcement background, I mean, obviously, you love your country. And so I want to talk here in a little bit about some of the sinister things that are going on behind the scenes. But I thought it might be helpful if you would just kind of help me understand how it is that these local law enforcement agencies that are full of good men and women that are really wanting to do good and what's right for our communities, get hoodwinked by organizations like the SPCA. Mm hmm.
John Bolin 1:25
Well, it all boils down to money. And it boils down to these small departments. Not having the means to, you know, in any law enforcement case, most law enforcement cases, you seize evidence of a crime, you package it, you drop it off at the property room, and you're done with it until you go to court, or until someone in CSI processes it or whatever. Animals, of course, have to be kept as evidence they have to be housed and fed and taken care of. And for a small Sheriff's Department, City Police Department, and even some state agencies, they don't have the budget for that, or the manpower to be with to be with those animals, you know, 24/7. So these organizations capitalize on that they know that's the case. And that's one of their big selling points, they'll say that we will come in at zero cost to you. In fact, we'll write you a grant. Since you're doing these cases, and we'll come in at zero cost and we'll house these animals, we'll set up a temporary shelter somewhere or we'll put we'll place them in an animal sanctuary somewhere. And it's not going to cost you a dime. And and you know, there's another part to this to that. How many times, especially in the last few years, law enforcement take a beating in the media? Yeah. And how many times have you seen one of these touchy feely animal stories about a police officer rescuing an animal? They're, you know, even stopping traffic to let ducks cross the road. And I mean, it's the kind of stuff that chiefs of police and sheriffs and agency heads? Well, we'll let the media jump right in and do that and put it all over the news because it makes people like the law enforcement agencies, it makes people what like and appreciate police officers for doing that. And I'm not saying that that's a bad thing. I'm saying the way that the animal rights extremists use that they're very good at what they do. They've been at this for a long time, and they have billions of dollars to, to push this along. So there's so many different elements to this that make it so disgusting and corrupt. And, you know, I don't want to say that law enforcement, all law enforcement throughout the country is being conned and misled, because that would be saying that we're dealing with a bunch of guys that don't have common sense, but it's dangerous. It's extremely dangerous. What's happening in our country right now with these animal rights organizations?
Right On The Mark 4:04
Well, John, I think the information that you're bringing to light from your experience working inside the organization as a quote, quote, investigator, you're opening the door for the media to look at it from the other side. For example, in August of 2021, CBS News national news ran for lack of a better term and expos a on the ASPCA. Right. And that's as close that I've been able to find where mainstream media would be willing to step that step over that line. And they while they weren't so they didn't get eaten, give the supportive angle of local law enforcement. That's a storyline unique to you. And that's really what helped put you on our radar. You've been in the in the small local underfunded law enforcement side of the equation and then you've been on the other side, getting to help us get in the head of these folks how Home, how much you need or they have helped when this type of organization knocks on their door.
John Bolin 5:08
Honestly, most of the time, they could if if they had plans in place with local shelters and local people, they could handle this stuff themselves. But the these these organizations know that a lot of times they're the ones that even initiate this, the ASPCA, HS us will reach out to a law enforcement agency and say, Hey, we got a complaint about possible animal cruelty, can you please look into it? And and they'll direct the law enforcement agency to the case. And then they'll step up as the hero that's going to fund it on gonna send support and, and take care of it. The ASPCA is Vice President VP of investigations in New York City as a retired FBI agent. That's not on the website.
Keith Mark 5:56
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Because, you know, over these last several years, and you know, I've always been a big fan of law enforcement, John, but I have I have been very disappointed, at least in some of the higher ranking elements of the FBI. Absolutely. Justice, the ATF. And the things that I'm reading and seeing at the highest level of those organizations are quite frankly, it's heartbreaking to me.
John Bolin 6:25
It is, it is. So it is it doesn't come as any surprise that they would be aligning with these organizations. It's it's all politically driven, unfortunately, at the high levels of the DOJ. It's all about politics and positioning themselves in for power.
Keith Mark 6:43
In the course of your career. John, have you seen a just a palpable shift in law enforcement and in the Department of Justice, and so on and so forth at the highest levels? Where it became more political, where there became this shift of a more liberal attitude? At the top level? Is that something that you've seen?
John Bolin 7:08
Personally, I have not witnessed that, because I always made sure that I stayed as far away from the top level as I could, because I wanted to be with the guys on the street doing the work. And, you know, when I was on the US Marshals, Fugitive Task Force, we had a boss there over the warrants division out of Indianapolis, the federal building there, and Andy, that was just a great guy. I mean, he raised cattle, and he was just a good American person, a good good man, that that always did the right thing.
Keith Mark 7:43
But am I wrong about that, John? I
John Bolin 7:44
mean, no, you're not wrong about it. You're not wrong about it. I it I did witness some things at even the state level, state and federal level where people will go to great lengths to position themselves in places of power and and use their position, their law enforcement position to do that.
Keith Mark 8:08
Well, stay tuned, we're gonna be right.
Right On The Mark 8:10
right on the mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation, Hunter nation defends all of our traditional American values, God, family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American Hunter by visiting Hunter nation.org.
Keith Mark 8:27
Today. All right, welcome back. And Hey, John. So I'm trying to keep up on this green New Deal. Which sounds like green horse to me, but that's just one man's opinion. Unfortunately, it's not just one man's or fortunately, I mean, a lot of people are seeing through this. What they, I mean, you know, you laugh about this cow farts, they really want to do away with the right house and ranching and farming. I mean, they want us to have synthetic meat, right? soy burgers, and, I mean, they want you to be a vegan,
John Bolin 9:10
they. In fact, a lot of the people in positions of the high positions in these organizations are vegans proclaimed, so you know, proclaim proud vegans and it's all over their social media. Don't take my word for it. Just look them up. It's all over.
Keith Mark 9:29
And Tim and I have we've looked these people up in the
John Bolin 9:33
the individual that yeah, the individual. This is just This is laughable. I laugh. I laugh to keep from throwing some kind of a crazy fit sometimes but the VP of farm animal campaigns for the ASPCA. She wants to make the lives of farm animals better for everyone. She's a vegan. So I mean, it just it's laughable to think that in One would look at her and take her seriously and think that she has the best interest of feeding the country and keeping farms in business. You know, you were talking about the Green New Deal. When when Booker was put in, in charge of some agriculture. I don't even remember the title. Now, I've, I've said it several times, but it's escaping me. But Senator Booker, when this pandemic hit, they jumped all over the opportunity to blame it on on factory farming that they are I hate to use their terms, but they jumped all over the opportunity. They wanted to shut down slaughterhouses and farms and everything claiming that it was the the next big breeding ground for the the next pandemic that's going to hit the US, according to them is going to come from farms. And it was just a they, I mean, they use any opportunity they can to push their agenda forward.
Keith Mark 11:00
You know, we just had a guest on Dr. Jennifer Chatfield, and she's not a hunter. She's a veterinarian, biologist, zoologist, studied all kinds of viruses and the effects of viruses between animals and man in the wild, and captivity and so on and so forth. And she said, it is all BS, that there is no evidence to support any of this. And you may or may not know this, John, you know, the Biden administration is proposing banning the import of all mammals and birds into the United States. Hmm, let that sink in for a minute. I own an outfitting business in the Yukon. I got moose hunts, caribou hunt, stone cheapens, grizzly bear ons, just came back from there with a good friend, couple of good friends of mine, one of them included Donald Trump, Jr. And we brought back coolers of moose meat, because that's what my family relies on all winter. And if all kooky Joe had his way, we wouldn't be able to bring back to me, we wouldn't be able to bring back the trophy. Nothing. Mm hmm. Now, does that make any sense to you?
John Bolin 12:12
No, it doesn't make any sense to me, but it falls right in line with their agenda. Yeah, it's it's getting more and more dangerous. They, they're gonna starve this country out. If they keep doing this. They're,
Keith Mark 12:26
I don't know about you. But to me, this is just clear cut good versus evil type stuff we're dealing with here. It is. And this is certainly agenda driven. They're not there. I don't think at the core of these people, they care to two ounces about the cows, the horses, the pigs, this is all about a longer term goal and agenda, whether you call it socialism, complete takeover of the of this country to completely do away with those things that we hold near and dear, like traditional American values.
John Bolin 13:02
That's right. That's right. And it does, it all falls hand in hand with the with them wanting to disarm the country. They don't want you to haunt because that means you're self sufficient. That means that you're the same ilk of the people that founded this country and survived in the wilderness when they needed to, they don't want that they want to de masculine eight, if that's the right word. They don't want us to be men anymore. They don't want you to teach your kids how to use a firearm, how to go out and haunt you and I, the three of us and all of your listeners. The grocery stores could close down tomorrow, and we'd go out and hunt and we'd feed our family. That's right. And, or I'd start first with all my farm animals, they go first and then it'd be less energy expended for me to
Keith Mark 13:53
think about this, okay, and you can do any research. And I've paid particular attention since 2016 into voting patterns of individuals, and what people really stand for on the spectrum of good versus evil. Faith bursts versus atheists, pro American patriotic versus anti American and socialistic principles, really the traditional values of America versus versus the I want to destroy America agenda. And the people that fall on the patriotic love God love country. It love their families. Those are rural Americans. This there's exception, but I'm just saying in a large painting with a large brush, farming, ranching families, hunting families, church, going families, all of the people that support the things that we believe are important in the country. They fall under this conservative God Family Country heading. And then you get to these anti hunting, anti military, anti law enforcement, anti capitalist, anti God. Those people are the ones that are trying to take away our guns, no hunting and no domestic animals. Am I wrong? You're right.
John Bolin 15:22
You're absolutely correct spot on. Well, I want to talk same group.
Keith Mark 15:27
I want to talk about ASPCA, his views on hunting before we let you go. John, can you stick around for one more segment? Sure. When we come back, you're going to be shocked or maybe not? Where the ASPCA stands on hunting. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
Right On The Mark 15:45
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Keith Mark 16:03
Welcome back to right on the mark. And, you know, I was really curious John and Tim, what the ASPCA thought about hunting because, you know, I mean, they're commercials or they're they're trying to save these poor, poor, poor mistreated pet puppies and kitties. And so I got to think and you know, so maybe they understand how important wildlife wild critters and wild places are when it comes to, you know, interactions with humans and conservation issues. And so, you know, I started wondering, maybe we're not that far apart from these people, as hunters, maybe they do support legal and ethical hunting, because they understand just how important that tool is in the conservation toolbox. So Tim, where do they really stand? You have the website in front of you?
Right On The Mark 16:59
Yeah, I do, you know, and like, like good camo. It works from a distance, but when you get up close, you can you can see some of the details. And so from their website, and I'm quoting, the ASPCA is opposed to hunting animals for sport, even if the animals killed in this way are subsequently consumed. The ASPCA does recognize that wildlife management may be necessary in situations where animal and human interests collide, but urges that management strategies be non lethal wherever possible, and never include avoidable suffering or distress. Presumably they're talking about the animals when they're talking about the suffering and distress.
Keith Mark 17:49
Well, I'm sure so think about this, folks. What you just heard the ASPCA. This group that's against animal cruelty. They're so against hunting, they don't care if you hunted to feed your family. Think about that for a minute. I wish that the ASPCA founder would have been on the Mayflower. And when they landed and the Pilgrims got out in the first few badass pilgrims went and shot a few quail and chatta deer and they were feeding the other pilgrims. Some dips that came up with this ASPCA idea and he said, Hey, I got an idea. We can't be hunting these animals even though we're going to eat them. I know we're starving Frank and Tom and Bill and Susie, but we can hunt them even if we eat them. I mean, do they even listen to their own rhetoric? John?
John Bolin 18:42
I don't know. I mean, it's to the point where it's interesting because I pulled up the site on break also. And I was reading as you were reading it out loud following along, but they're never include avoidable suffering or distress, according to whose definition that's the big thing. And that's their definition of suffering or distress. I mean, even though the entire thing's ridiculous what they're saying is ridiculous, of course, but I just wanted to touch on that because in the animal cruelty cases, they do the same thing. They always use the same big words deplorable and deplorable conditions and no access to food and water and the same tired narrative over and over and over and every report.
Keith Mark 19:25
Crazy. You know, John, I found it Hunter nation. And Hunter nation is currently involved in all kinds of policy fights all across this country. And what drove me to found Hunter nation is because hunters as rugged as we are, as disciplined as we are as self reliant and self sufficient. As we are. We don't vote. And by not voting, we've allowed these anti hunting anti American. I don't want to keep using bad words. But I can't think of a better word than dipshits. To they're the ones that are out there making these laws making these policies working with these domestic terrorist groups like PETA, Humane Society, ASPCA, and, and so on and so forth. And by not voting, we are losing our say. And I've said this for the last five years, John, wake up, right? If you're a hunter, if you believe in traditional American values, wake up, go to Hunter nation.org. Join me join Ted Nugent, join the long list of people that are involved trying to save this country. Wake up. I talked to so many people around campfires, after church in bowling alleys, bars, and everywhere in between John, and these hunters, you know what they say to me? Well, I don't really think it's that big of a problem. Oh, wow. You're not? You know what? And you and I were talking before we came on John, Oregon. Imagine you you're a fifth generation. Person in Oregon, you grew up hunting Oregon has tremendous hunting opportunities. In the state of Oregon, right now, they are trying to include hunting as animal cruelty, and ban it forever. This isn't just some pipe dream, or somebody said, you know, the Vice President of the ASPCA is on the phone with the director of communications with PETA, who's on the phone with the CEO of the Humane Society and talking about well, wouldn't we just love in our wish list of banned hunting? No, no, this isn't some pie in the sky. Well, maybe we know. We've turned over the keys to this country to the evil, liberal anti hunting anti Americans in in the state. Absolutely. They want to ban hunting that's killed.
John Bolin 21:57
It is absolutely there are several states in the US. I think it's something like maybe half of the states have have put hunting, protect protection of hunting in their legislation in their constitution, their state constitutions. But you You really said what I've been saying for a while now about you know, it's not just that you're not voting. But you're, they're counting on rural Americans. Old Fashioned people, old fashioned values, they're counting on us to continue doing what we do. And what is that? That is being blue collar workers, who spend a lot of time at home, spend a lot of time with family when they're not working, spend time in the woods. And they're counting on that. And while we're doing that they're taking the billions of dollars, that they're raising through those sad commercials. And they have people they have lobbyist and state directors in now this this literally let let this soak into your listeners in every county council meeting, that is doing something with their animal ordinances at the time in every state house. In in DC, obviously, these people these lobbyist and these animal rights extremists are working overtime, while we're doing what we do traditionally. And and and they're eroding our rights from right under our feet. We don't you if I could challenge your listeners with something. Go to your local sheriff and ask direct questions. Then not you know, not in a in a nasty way, not in a confrontational way and just seeking information. Say have any of your officers been trained by the Humane Society of the United States? Have any of your officers been trained by the ASPCA? Are they operating with the agendas that these folks are pushing? Because the HS us has a Law Enforcement Training Center on their website? Humane Society dot o RG you can look type in Law Enforcement Training Center l etc. They train 1000s of police officers yearly with their propaganda how to go out and investigate animal cruelty and guess what they pay. Current law enforcement officers really good money. The first thing that happened with me the first person that reached out to me when I resigned from the ASPCA before I went out publicly speaking out against them, the HS US Law Enforcement Training Center contacted me and wanted me to go to work for so they but they pay these guys really well. I mean I if I'm still a police officer, I would have welcomed a part time gig making double what I was making and they send me all the curriculum. Then I was at a speaking engagement a fundraiser for Protect the harvest recently, and someone came up to me after I spoke and they said, Well, Oklahoma's already doing it. That they're the HTSUS is curriculum is in the Oklahoma Law Enforcement Academy. So those are the questions that that your listeners need to go ask their public officials, their county council, their commissioners, their sheriff's, all of their elected officials and their governor. Say, where do you stand on these issues? And it's going to be shocking to people. Those are going to find out
Keith Mark 25:34
those are incredible questions, very pointed. And I just want to make sure our listeners understand what you just said. They're paying people like you more money than you make in your day job. And that money is coming from the commercials they raise, save this poor little animal.
John Bolin 25:55
Absolutely. Absolutely. HS us and ASPCA have both been charged under the RICO statutes in this country. The civil Rico statutes Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations, they had to pay a settlement to Barnum and Bailey Circus. Because of their corrupt, so called undercover investigation into the circus operations, they they lost that case and paid millions of dollars, but it was like $10 million or something. So it's a drop in the bucket to them. Yeah, you know, just fire up an extra sack commercial, they'll get that money back in no time. John,
Right On The Mark 26:28
John, in the last 12 years, they have raised $2 billion.
John Bolin 26:34
There you go. There you go.
Right On The Mark 26:36
My in 2019, according to their tax filing, they took in nearly $280 million one year. And I recently,
Keith Mark 26:48
I say this to the American hunters that are listening. I say this right now, to all of you that believe in traditional American values. This is one organization $2 billion, one organization, we can do this math, pull up the Humane Society pull up PETA, pull up, the defenders, pull up all these other organizations, the amount of money they're raising is staggering. And if we don't get nine, if we don't get active, if we don't say enough's enough, if we don't really recognize that we are at the Concord bridge in modern American history, we're going to lose this lifestyle. We're damn close to losing the country. And that's why please please go to HUNTER nation.org HUNTER nation.org and join us. Our enemy is well funded. But we need to beat him and sure numbers, numbers will win this game because a rich guy can give 1000s of dollars, but he only gets to vote one time. Well, unless it's 21. One man one vote if there's enough of us. I don't care how much fraud they perpetrate. They can't out fraud. All 17 million of us that are American hunters in this time.
Right On The Mark 28:11
right on the mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on right on the mark are not necessarily those of our host guests or sponsors. right on the mark is produced at Hunter nation studios and is the property of Bow & Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions copyright 2021
Right On The Mark 0:00
right on the mark Episode 30, part three of three featuring John Bolin. Recorded October 2021 starts right now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, He's humorous, and a bit hot headed. But when it comes to all things God Family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 0:44
Welcome back to right on the mark. And with no further ado, John Bolin. What we're going to talk about today is the people that we're going to be talking about today, Tim, I think they're domestic terrorists. I believe they're anti American at their heart and their core. And, and honestly, I think they're dadgum sham ours. And I'm just curious to get John's take and our guest today is obviously John Bolin. And John, what a history this guy's head. He was a local sheriff. He was a US Marshal. And then he got hired by a as a CA ASPCA? What's that an acronym for Tim?
Right On The Mark 1:25
Well, it's the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and you know them, you know them better as if you could help just one animal for $19 a day Sarah McLaughlin, and yeah,
Keith Mark 1:43
yeah, let's get her on next. I'd love to talk to her. I'd give her $19 to come on visit with this.
Right On The Mark 1:50
Well, you'd find out most of it didn't actually go to it would go to someone else. And if John doesn't take us there, we've done a little bit of research on our own. And when you talk about the world of green decoys and wolves in sheep's clothing, I think we've got one of those in our crosshairs today. Well, you
Keith Mark 2:10
know, Tim, as well as I know, and Hunter Nation is working on this as we speak right now, but in the state of Oregon. They're trying to ban hunting, by including that as animal cruelty, regardless of whether you eat the animal or not. And so anyway, we're gonna get John Bolin on here, and let's just let's just see where this goes.
Right On The Mark 2:33
right on the mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation, Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God Family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American Hunter by visiting HunterNation.org. Today, John Donne, I know from looking into some of your current works, you're you're highlighting some of the activities of the ASPCA when local law enforcement agencies are in their most dire need disasters and whatnot, what's going on there?
John Bolin 3:07
Well, that's another one of their the areas that they have found that they can infiltrate and use their agenda to come in under the guise of assisting communities during disasters. And really, all it is is fundraising tactics. And and, for example, a quick example after Hurricane Maria, I'm still working at the ASPCA and they set up emergency shelters in Texas where people from from Louisiana were coming up and stay in. In Texas and they were bringing their animals so the ASPCA set up shelter there. They and in St. Croix in the Virgin Islands, they set up a shelter there. Some of the things they did there would be a great topic for another show maybe when your time but it was ridiculous. Ridiculous the things they did. But they use they said they have contracts with local emergency services in different states. And their contract says that when this when these disasters strike, whatever it may be flooding, fires, wildfires, hurricanes, you name it, that they will come in and let the local law enforcement handle the human aspect. And they'll come in and rescue the animals. And and they insert themselves into that type of situation. Also at the federal level. They're everywhere, guys. They're at every level in every opportunity that they see that they can come in. They're there.
Right On The Mark 4:40
Ted Nugent talks about and rightfully talks about the duck hunters. They get out in their boats during these floods and disasters and they go up and they rescue people and their pets. So your counselor Navy, you're telling me after those guys go out and they risk harm to themselves. They go into those boats into those floods waters they get, they get grandma and her little dog or cat out and those animals come back. And they don't necessarily stay with grandma.
John Bolin 5:09
A lot of them don't. They, they take them to shelters and they give local folks they'll advertise some water, leave it to local law enforcement to let folks know where the shelter is set up. And they'll give them an opportunity to come and claim their animal in St. Croix and I learned this while I was there, I'd never been to the Virgin Islands, but in St. Croix they set up emergency shelter and they were going they were going out and rescuing Island dogs. If anyone knows what an island dog is, it's never been in a cage never been on a leash never been in a house. And they were going out and rescuing these Island dogs and it became a big selling point for them. Because people back here in the in the States. You know, if you wanted to be a big shot Animal Rescue person, put it all over your social media, how great a person you are. You could rescue an island dog for a small fee and adoption fee. You could be a hero.
Keith Mark 6:04
How do we beat these people? John? How do we beat it?
John Bolin 6:07
The money, the money, follow the money, stop the money, stop the money going in going into the pockets of these disgusting politicians that are passing these bills on behalf of these extremist. We need a forensic audit, follow the money. That's how we stop.
Right On The Mark 6:26
You have the spirit of the Wild. If so check out TedNugent.com. For one stop shopping for concert updates, hunting opportunities with Ted's sunrise safaris, autograph swag, Ted's latest news and anything Ted visit TedNugent.com
Keith Mark 6:44
made one other point, John, before I let you go, you talked about protect the harvest. This is a group that I've done a little bit of looking into. And I really want to spend some more time getting to learn a little more about that. I certainly want to meet him because everything that I've seen everything that I've read about that group, they are warriors, are American people that think like we do traditional values. You know a little bit about that group. Tell us what, what fantastic folks they are and what they're all about.
John Bolin 7:15
Well protect the harvest was founded by Forrest Lucas of Lucas Oil. And it was yeah, it was founded because there was some bills introduced in in Missouri, at the Statehouse in Missouri. He has a ranch in Missouri. And a lot of friends there. And I think it was 10 or 12 years ago that they started protect the harvest, but he saw a need for it. He saw that these animal rights extremists are just running over everyone's rights and getting bills pushed through every State House and in DC and he decided to start an organization to go after it. And that's what protect the harvest is
Keith Mark 7:55
in from my looking at looks like they're really heavy into the farm ranch and and in, you know, those types of communities. Is that right?
John Bolin 8:05
That's right. That's right.
Keith Mark 8:07
You can we got to get them on Tim we got to get him on.
Right On The Mark 8:09
That's just exactly the type of people that John was talking about, and that you taught and deal with every day with Hunter Nation. Not exclusively rural, but the majority are rural and they live the traditional American lifestyle and with the traditional American values hunters, ranchers, farmers, and it were pretty easy to get picked on because we do try to mind our own business and thank goodness for people like you, John that are willing to stick your neck out there physically on the line and and keep sticking neck and other appendages out there because we know how these folks work. Thank you for your service, your time and your current efforts to get this word out there.
Keith Mark 8:55
Yeah. Hey, how do people are you on social media? John? Where can people if they want to read more and see more with and about you? How do they find you?
John Bolin 9:03
Unfortunately, I'm not on social media right now. But I do have a web page. If I can mention that. It's my business. Please, if you don't mind? No, that's what I want you to do. Okay, it's area consulting services.com area AR EA is an acronym for animal rights extremism awareness, area consulting services, calm.
Right On The Mark 9:26
Hey, let's look what are you doing with area? What are you doing in a nutshell John?
John Bolin 9:31
I just started it actually. I created my LLC. I was on the road with Trent Luce, who is another great friend of mine that's that's in our corner. I was on the road with Trent for over a month, doing a tour across the country talking about this type of stuff. We were talking about faith, family and freedom and protecting our property rights. And while I was on that tour, I decided that I should create an LLC to protect myself somewhat, and decided to, I hired someone to create the webpage for me. So it's really in its infancy, but it's about education. It's about educating. And my real goal, my desire is to counter the law enforcement training that these animal rights extremists organization do, and have folks like you and protect the harvest all come together and create a curriculum, where we can train law enforcement, and get them back to following the Constitution of the United States and kick these extremists out of their investigations. That's my goal.
Keith Mark 10:35
Well, God bless you, because it sounds like a hell of a job. You know, it's a tall order for you. And if there's anything we can do for you, from Hunter nation, let us know. Because I'll tell you, you're doing God's work. And I really appreciate for stepping up.
John Bolin 10:52
Thank you very much for what you're doing, guys. Appreciate you.
Keith Mark 10:56
We'll stay tuned, we're gonna have a little bit of a wrap up. And a little more right on the mark come in right at
Right On The Mark 11:02
this segment of right on the mark is brought to you by Colt still making history, pistols, rifles, revolvers, find the right Colt for you today by visiting colt.com.
Keith Mark 11:15
Well, Tim, I don't I might need to an hour to decompress after that. Because, you know, John has just laid some major truth bombs on us and our listeners. I mean, he calls these people out. I mean, just so directly in with his background. I mean, he's clearly no BS. I mean, this is this is a problem.
Right On The Mark 11:36
Well, it's it sounds like he had a wonderful career in law enforcement. And then was reached out to by ASPCA and had an opportunity to have a second wonderful career in retirement, probably much more money in his pocket. But boy, I'll tell you what, he had that voice in his head that that I think all good Americans have called a conscience. And he couldn't deal with it. And thank goodness, not only did he did he stop, but he kept track of some of his records, he kept track of some data that he that he acquired Wofully illegally during his his work there. And he has the kohona is now to come out and start, like you say dropping truth bombs.
Keith Mark 12:17
Think about this, Tim, you know, how do you stop him right? Now, obviously, I think we beat him at the ballot box, which is obviously what we're working on with Hunter nation. But But what he said is if we could somehow follow the money, and I just don't know how we're going to do it in our current state of, you know, the control of power right now in DC is just so corrupt. But if you could follow the money, and this money is leaving, you know, good intention, people's hands, go into this not for profit to save the dogs, getting in the hands of corrupt politicians who are in turn passing legislation to ban hunting, to ban cattle operations, so on and so forth. I mean, if we could if, obviously, it's not something we're going to be able to do. But if John and his group can really get to the bottom of this boy, we'd all be bold to him one way.
Right On The Mark 13:13
Well, yeah. And you know, there's there's a phrase going around, and I could not buy into it and believe it more, it's food security is national security. And if we can start embracing that hunters have lived their lives that way. I mean, pandemic hit. Hunters weren't worried about how they were going to feed their family. But not everybody hunts. And if they start taking some of the extreme measures that they're talking about taking food security will be in jeopardy.
Keith Mark 13:43
Yeah, well, I just pray to him every single day, that those of you that are listening that believe in this great nation, you know, God Family, country and our traditional American values. You live this hunting lifestyle that we do, please, please don't just set this next one out, go to Hunter nation.org, please, Hunter nation.org. Get active. Talk to your friends. I mean, this threat is real. And it's like Michael Waddell said, you know, we spend as hunters all of our time sweeping our own back porch. And we don't really worry about other people's back porches. Well, the people like ASPCA. They're coming to burn your back porch and your house with your kids and pets inside the house. Don't set it out. We can't set it out. John Boland just told us today this threat is real. These people have been tricked infiltrated local, state and national offices. They're everywhere. They're actually out brainwashing, if you will training law enforcement in their ways. Again, the only way we're going to be these anti American anti hunting folks is to unify I asked you just to give us a shot, go to Hunter nation.org Take a look. Be part of the solution come to the Concord bridge with this. We need you. And if you come back next time we'll have some more right on the
Right On The Mark 15:13
right on the mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on right on the mark are not necessarily those of our host guests or sponsors right on the mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions copyright 2021
Episode 26 & 27 featuring Dr. Jennifer Chatfield - The Left is currently proposing several rules and regulations to ban the international import of wild mammals
The Left is currently proposing several rules and regulations to ban the international import of wild mammals and birds under the guise of protecting America from the “next pandemic”. Keith Mark knows it’s an effort to eliminate international hunting. This episode’s guest knows any such ban won’t prevent a pandemic and she has the facts and data to prove it.
The Left is currently proposing several rules and regulations to ban the international import of wild mammals and birds under the guise of protecting America from the “next pandemic”. Keith Mark knows it’s an effort to eliminate international hunting. This episode’s guest knows any such ban won’t prevent a pandemic and she has the facts and data to prove it.
In this episode of Right On The Mark’s host, Keith Mark is joined by Dr. Jenifer Chatfield. She is a double board-certified veterinarian who has studied the origins of pandemics and their roots.
She is a bright person who is highly educated on subjects that related to human and animal interaction. She is bright and lively and speaks in plain language making her the perfect guest for this subject.
She and Keith served President Trump’s International Wildlife Conservation Council. The IWCC advised the Secretary of the Interior on a variety of international hunting topics including anti-poaching programs, wildlife trafficking and efforts. They discuss what they learned by meeting with foreign leaders who’s country’s rely on the American hunter for conservation funding.
The fact is, there is no scientific data to support the notion these bans would prevent any disease. Furthermore, she says any such ban would have devastating effects on hunters and outfitters in Canada, Mexico and around the world. Many African nations rely on American hunters to fund their conservation efforts and this revenue would go away with any such ban.
Dr. Jen also breaks down where pandemics have come from and how science has shown that banning the import of these mammals and birds would provide no protection from future pandemics.
Dr. Chatfield Extended Bio Info:
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield is the board-certified Staff Veterinarian at 4J Conservation Center. She is a diplomate of both the American College of Zoological Medicine (ACZM) and the American College of Veterinary Preventive Medicine (ACVPM). She’s been a practice owner, a relief vet, worked in public health, serves as a member of the National Veterinary Response Team, and is a Medical Reserve Corps member.
She and Keith met when they were appointed to President Trump’s International Wildlife Conservation Council (IWCC). This council advised the Secretary of the Interior on issues including anti-poaching programs, wildlife trafficking, and efforts to increase awareness of the conservation and economic benefits of United States citizens traveling to foreign nations to engage in hunting.
Dr. Chatfield has a particular interest in infectious diseases and biosecurity and her work for the Dept. of Homeland Security’s (DHS) courses has been focused on topics such as foreign animal diseases, quarantine and isolation, and malicious introduction of pathogens.
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 26 part one of two featuring Dr. Jenifer Chatfield recorded September 2021, starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunter's lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hotheaded But when it comes to all things, God, family, country and hunting. He's Keith Mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:45
Welcome back to another Right On The Mark podcast. And you know what, Josh? I mean, this is just crazy times we're living in, um, what is this? We're reading about the Biden administration, is putting forth something that I don't even really understand, can't certainly comprehend it, it wants to ban the import of all mammals into the United States under the guise of COVID 19. Have you seen that my friend?
Josh Ishmael 1:13
I have and you know, I feel like the whitetail deer or the caribou or the moose, or all those animals that they would have been spreading COVID a long time ago, if, if that was the case, but here we are, I guess.
Keith Mark 1:26
Well, you know, I mean, I immediately thought, Well, if animals can pass COVID on then what's next? They're going to kill every pet in America? I mean, I mean, where does this stop and, you know, Josh, full disclosure to our listeners, Josh and I literally just got off an airplane from the Yukon, we were up in the Yukon hunting moose, and had great success in our camp. And if the Biden administration has their way, Josh, the coolers of moose meat, hide and antlers that we just brought back, we wouldn't be able to do it. Is that the way you read this?
Josh Ishmael 2:02
That's the way I see it. And if that's the case, you and I will definitely have COVID because we've been a part of several several successful hunts in the last few days.
Keith Mark 2:11
So yeah, well, for sure. And you know, in my world on Twitter, @keithmarkmra,, @keithmarkmra,, not plugging me but @keithmarkmra, on Twitter. Um, I like to, I've coined the phrase hashtag dip (beep). And I don't use that very regularly. I reserve it for those true hashtag dip (beep)s. And when I was reading this, all I kept writing on the draft that I was reading was hashtag (beep), hashtag dip (beep). This is the craziest stuff but I'll tell you what Josh, what I have done for us today. Um, as you know, I served on the International Wildlife Conservation Committee, as a Trump appointee, originally under Secretary of the Interior Zinke and then worked with Secretary of the Interior, David Bernhardt and I met a fascinating lady while I was on that. Her name is Jenifer Chatfield. And if we're going to be technical, we're going to call her Dr. Jenifer Chatfield, because she's a veterinarian by trade. She has studied all kinds of things when it comes to animals and humans. She has her own podcast. She's incredible. She's not a hunter. But she's knowledgeable and she's pretty good to look out with the eyes. So I think this is going to be an interesting podcast. I know for one, I have a ton of questions. She's the expert. And that's why we've got her so if you guys stay tuned, you're going to get to hear from Dr. Jenifer Chatfield. We're going to get to the bottom of this animal, human COVID risk. Stay tuned, we'll be right back.
Right On The Mark 3:46
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation. Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God, family, country, conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org today.
Keith Mark 4:05
Welcome back. And I am very pleased to announce my guest today is none other than Dr. Jenifer Chatfield. Dr. Jen, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 4:17
Hey, thanks, Keith. Thanks for having me on. Hey, Josh, how are you?
Josh Ishmael 4:22
Great. Thanks for being here. And and I mean, not that Keith has talked you up quite a bit, but I'm very interested to hear your perspective on all this. Especially since you aren't a hunter. That's that's what I'm excited to hear.
Keith Mark 4:34
Right, it's really pretty awesome. Right? And so, again, the way I met you was I showed up at Secretary of the Interior at that time, Ryan Zinke's office in Washington DC the first day the IWCC met um and you know, as luck would have it, you and I ended up being seated together, struck up a conversation and I've just been mesmerized by your credentials and certainly your passion, I think let's just start with this. Dr. Jen, why don't you just tell our listeners a little bit about your background? Because I want them to understand that you are abundantly qualified to talk on this topic.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 5:15
Okay, well, we should stop all the hype right there. Because who can live up to that hype? Holy moly.
Keith Mark 5:21
You.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 5:24
I will tell you, it's a little bit strange for a non hunter. I mean, I'm a veterinarian, for heaven's sakes, we're generally working on the other side of that, right. And so for a non hunter to be invited, number one invited into a podcast, such as this, but then also, she said yes, to even talking about it, right? Because I think there, there is one thing that I have discovered in my travails through the animal world, which is that we all have something in common, right. And if we start from that, like you and I did with our first conversation, and like many of us on serving on that council together did, we started with a love for the creatures that we share this planet with. And if we start from what we have in common, then it's very easy for us to discuss the things that we don't have in common, right without attacking each other. And so, so that's what I'm very excited about today. And so for me, I come to this position, because I've worked in zoos, I've worked with free ranging wildlife in different countries. I've done research, I've taken care of captive animals, I'm double boarded. So I'm board certified not only in Zoo and wildlife medicine, but also in what we call veterinary preventive medicine, which is, it used to be called the public health boards. It's basically infectious diseases and epidemiology. And I think probably, Keith, hopefully, your listeners are starting to sort of see that intersection come together, about why you and I find ourselves always talking about diseases at the interface of humans and animals. Because it's sort of my jam. I worked in public health, as you mentioned, on the human health side, I have provided educational lectures during the Ebola readiness time in the U.S. when we had that poor unfortunate incident in Dallas to hospital administrators, human physicians, and so frequently find myself working at that interface as well. But really working towards making folks more aware of a "one health" approach to life, which I think is second nature for hunters. And for your, for your listeners, for sure. "One health" means that the animals, the environment, and the humans are all dependent on each other. And so we have to safeguard the health of all three, or else that three legged stool falls over. So yeah, so that's how I find myself here. And I'm very excited to talk about this.
Keith Mark 8:00
Well, you know,I mean, in short, if those of you are listening, that makes her extremely qualified to answer the questions that we have. And and, Dr. Jen, you are familiar with this proposal that's being made from the Biden administration, are you not?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 8:17
Yeah, actually, there's a lot of different proposals floating around on Capitol Hill right now. I should say that I also have a bit of a policy background, in all fairness to everyone listening, in case I dropped some words is that I did work on Capitol Hill and the US House of Representatives. And so understanding policy and how it impacts the animal world is something that is not necessarily commonplace. And I think if you are not from an animal background and agricultural background like I am, and if you don't work, and live and breathe these issues, it can be difficult to see sometimes the unintended consequences of policy. So yeah, no, I'm familiar with kind of the push,
Keith Mark 9:05
Right, and so our background and my listeners are primarily hunters and those people that enjoy the outdoor lifestyle, and that's why I so wanted you to come on here today because you're going to bring just a an honest to goodness, scientific, animal husbandry approach to this. So you're familiar with some of the legislation that is floating around out there, particularly this idea to ban the import of mammals into the United States under the guise of COVID. So I'll just I'm basically going to just kick the ball to you tell our listeners in layman's terms, what they're trying to accomplish. Let's just start with that and then I'll dissect it.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 9:52
Okay. Okay, so first of all, I have to ask, do you guys hear that sound? Do you hear sound ...it's me dragging out my soapbox. right now.
Keith Mark 10:03
I love it, I'm sitting on mine, I carry it with me at all times.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 10:07
You live on top of yours, don't you?
Keith Mark 10:09
That's the only way I can actually be over five foot five.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 10:14
Josh, is that true? Does Keith live on his soapbox?
Josh Ishmael 10:18
Yes, it is.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 10:20
Okay, well, I'm dragging mine out along with you. Because so there's a couple things that are that are interesting there. And so I think this big push is interesting. And you can, you can sort of see. So if we take a step back, because I do like to have data. I mean, I think that some some folks in on our council, you know, may have referred to me as a nerd. But I like data, because certainly every single person has their own opinion. But when you have data, and that's how you've arrived at your opinion, then I think you've used critical thinking skills more than you have emotion. Because it's very, very easy to let emotion guide decision making, especially when you insert any animal into the equation, right. And I don't have to tell you that Keith, and I don't have to tell your listeners because they're hunters. And so they're familiar with how people kind of respond emotionally without understanding the facts, right.
Keith Mark 11:22
Sure.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 11:22
In fact, I might play on their emotions in just a minute, because I'm gonna have to pick up my little French Bulldog who's down here at my ankle, dying to be on the podcast.
Keith Mark 11:31
Right.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 11:32
So when we talk about data, and we talk about this big push, no matter what the legislation is, most of them are seeking to either completely ban or partially prohibit the importation or even just movement of what they're calling wild mammals and birds. And I think Well, okay, why, how come? Well, because they want to prevent the next pandemic, right? Would you agree, Keith, that's what they're trying to do.
Keith Mark 12:03
What's what they say? And what I want to get to the bottom of today is, will it but go ahead, I hear you.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 12:09
How can you prevent that? You you cannot prevent the next pandemic. You cannot. There's going to be another one. I don't like to be wrong, all you know if I can avoid it. And if I tell you there's, this is not the last pandemic, I'll tell you, this probably won't even be the last Coronavirus that emerges in the human population. It's not the first it's not the second, it's not the third, it's the seventh. And it won't be the last. So so let's just put that off the table that we can prevent a pandemic. What we can do, because I don't want people to can be getting depressed, what we can do is we can be better prepared for it. Now that makes sense to me. And if we want to put resources somewhere, Hey, friends, let's put them there. Okay, so if we can't prevent it, then let's look at how the last ones have come joined us in the United States. Right? If I want to focus domestically. Well let's see, it wasn't wild animals. Wild animals were not responsible for the pandemics most recently preceding COVID-19. Did you know that?
Keith Mark 13:13
No, but I want to hear.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 13:14
Yeah, so Okay, so one of them came in with dogs. Dogs. Yeah, there was a novel canine influenza was a pandemic that came in in 2015 dogs. And they did come from Asia. Okay, that's I mean, you know, I have my surprised face on right now.
Keith Mark 13:34
Yeah, me, too. I'm not I've told Josh I'm not going to call it the Chinese virus. I'm just not going to call it the Chinese virus. Even if I think it might be the Chinese virus. I'm going to really avoid using the phrase Chinese virus today go ahead.
Josh Ishmael 13:50
I mean, technically didn't come from bats and so it's it's Chinese bats virus.
Keith Mark 13:55
Well did it that's I that's what I want to get to it. Let's go.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 13:58
Yeah, so um, so I have to be careful because you know, I have a tendency to interrupt.
Keith Mark 14:04
No, no..we will try not to interupt you, your talking about the dog virus- go back.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 14:08
Yeah, so so we had a pandemic come in with dogs. We didn't see all this legislation saying we can we should like not import dogs. No one should have dogs. You definitely shouldn't touch dogs. We didn't have that, did we? No, we didn't, of course not. Right. And the one there was one before that. It was 2009 H1N1. That was pandemic.
Keith Mark 14:29
Birds.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 14:30
Yeah, well, actually, actually, oh, you're you're going one better. I skipped over 2014/15 didn't I.
Keith Mark 14:36
The Bird Flu.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 14:37
2014/15 was the high path avian influenza. And all you need to know about that is that if you get a choice if you're a bird, or a person, frankly, if you get to pick high path, avian influenza or low path, avian influenza, you pick no avian influenza. Right? But you know that that was millions and millions of birds destroyed. And that was inevitable as well, because all influenza comes from dabbling ducks. So it's like that wasn't a question of if that was a question of when, because ducks migrate across the United States every year. Then we get down to what I was going to, which is 2009 H1N1. And that one was brought in by people. Well, I mean, people are still traveling moving around, right? And we don't want like, let's not go down that rabbit trail. Okay, talking about unfettered movement of people across borders. So we're still not to a wild animal. Right? We're still not there. Now, you could say that we hit some birds, but what are we gonna do put up, you know, fencing up to the sky? Right? I mean, we do have we do have a rover on Mars now. So perhaps we can put up a giant fence to keep birds from migrating through the United States but that seems unreasonable. So this, this kind of this mindset of we're going to make the entire United States safe from the next pandemic by preventing it is really living in a fool's paradise. And, and just not reasonable if you know much about infectious pathogens and how they move about the globe.
Keith Mark 16:21
So you have to believe Dr. Jen, that they know what you know that banning the import of mammals and birds is not going to stop the next pandemic. So there has to be something more to it. And I'm going to get to that here in a second. We're going to take a quick break and we're going to come right back and find out what is behind this potentially, with Dr. Jen, right here on Right On The Mark in a second.
Right On The Mark 16:51
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Keith Mark 17:10
Welcome back. And you know, we were talking during the break and and what wasn't the one H1N1 kind of mislabeled swine flu?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 17:19
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So um, so a lot of people call the 2009 H1N1 swine flu because A, it's easier to say, than 2009 H1N1. And also because initially, it was tagged that right off the bat, because if you recall, that influenza most recently jumped from pigs to people. Because remember, it started in a pig farm outside Mexico City. And so then it but it is a was a people disease, it still is a people disease, it's still here. It's endemic. And it was brought into the United States by infected people, you know, like COVID.
Keith Mark 17:56
Right? What was the unintended consequence to the pork industry? With it being named that?
Unknown Speaker 18:05
Yeah, well, so you can imagine people got scared. And I get that, right. I mean, diseases, scary people are afraid of biological threats, because you can't see them. And, you know, we don't don't necessarily understand everything about them. And so the big problem was people get scared, they could get it by eating pork. So the pork industry took years to recover economically.
Keith Mark 18:29
Could you?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 18:30
No.
Keith Mark 18:31
No. Okay, well, so that kind of brings me back to where we started. So if these people know that banning the import of mammal and their bi-products is not going to bring in a prevent a pandemic?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 18:45
Yeah.
Keith Mark 18:46
It seems to me that that may be more of an anti hunting measure, a more strict control of we the people, because it doesn't make sense in common sense to me, what's your take?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 18:59
Yeah, so um, I don't read it as a strict anti hunting effort. But also, I'm not a hunter. So I might not read it as that. However, what I don't like is restriction on effective conservation measures, and that's what most of these bills would accomplish, right? Because anytime you, you prohibit or restrict an activity through regulation, whether you call it a ban, or whether you effectively ban it through prohibitory regulation, making, you know, making it so difficult that no one can do it. Then they'll say, oh, but you could still do it, but you really can't. Then you curtail good efforts as well. And as you know, because that's one thing that you and I found common ground on, was hunting as a tool. Hunting is a very effective tool in our toolbox of conservation. I mean, the North American model used hunters to fund conservation efforts to help to safeguard our free ranging herds and flocks. Because by and large, most responsible hunters, in my experience, are interested in the health of the herd overall. And so any sort of regulation that looks to inappropriately eliminate tools in our conservation toolbox are a real problem for me.
Keith Mark 20:39
Right? And so that goes back to my original premise. If we know hunting is an effective tool for for solid conservation.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 20:48
Yep.
Keith Mark 20:49
If if we take away the ability for animals to be imported back into the US, it is anti conservation. And everyone knows that.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 21:02
Yes.
Keith Mark 21:02
So again, I say, if you do something that is not based on science, or data,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 21:07
Uh hum.
Keith Mark 21:07
Which is something you require,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 21:09
Uh hum.
Keith Mark 21:09
if it doesn't further the conservation efforts, Dr. Jen, it has to have a reason. And because we can't find anything in the data, we can't find anything scientifically. We can't find anything that promotes solid conservation. There must be something else and the only thing I can come up with and I, I'd like to throw something else in if you can think of it must be anti-hunting. What else?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 21:36
Yeah, well, I wouldn't disagree with you. Like I do think it is in effect anti hunting. But I also think it's anti trade. Because that's really I mean, that's, that's what it is when you move like beyond the international border. There are a lot of folks who work in conservation, who also import and export, but largely import wild animals, right for conservation. And so if you're banning all of that movement, you're you're just going to cripple conservation.
Keith Mark 22:13
We can agree at least some level, I think a high level, you would agree as a non hunter and a veterinarian and an expert in this area. It would be anti hunting at some level.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 22:25
Oh, no, 100% 100%
Keith Mark 22:27
Let's talk about something else. As you and I sit there on the IWCC, we heard biologists, we heard ministers,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 22:34
Oh, yeah.
Keith Mark 22:34
We heard high level of government officials from many countries, that would come to our council, and beg us to open up the import of elephant, open up the import of leopards, and so on and so forth, certain things that were banned.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 22:52
Yeah.
Keith Mark 22:52
And they ask for multiple reasons. One, the economic impact that no hunting is having, and the inability to take the hunting tool to promote solid conservation in their countries. True?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 23:08
Yeah, that is true. And there were there were other things as well. So for the like, for the non hunters who wonder, you know, who feel like Yeah, okay. But that's kind of icky. And I don't have to get involved in it, I'd have to take a position on it. Because, I mean, I don't hunt or if you don't hunt internationally, I don't want to get involved in that, right. Because if you stand up for such programs, you better get ready to have stuff thrown at you. Right? It's a very emotional situation for some people. And so, for those of you who think that it doesn't impact you, because you don't engage in that activity, I'm here to tell you, you are wrong. And here's why you're wrong. I didn't realize how wrong until we heard from people whose lives are directly impacted by such bans. And so when we had people from Namibia come and stand in front of us and show us. I mean, it was slide after slide of data that said not only do you give us back the dignity of managing our own natural resources, rather than attempting to condescend and manage them on our behalf, but you also provide income, you provide funding and because of how like for instance, the Namibia and some other countries structure those programs within their country. Then the municipalities, the cities, the villages, the towns, the ones that do that well and have that tourism come in, they have better schools,
Keith Mark 24:48
Uh hum, fresher water, fresher water,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 24:52
Fresher water. It just really elevates the standard of living because they have commerce because they have a way to make a living utilizing God given resources, right? Because those creatures are there, they have food provided, okay? Because nothing is wasted. And so those those organizations, those hunting parties, those professional hunters, because we heard from them too, who appropriately helped manage the herds, who engage and work in a collaborative fashion with the local folks who who live on that land. They are the ones who are successful. They're the ones with the healthiest herds, they're the ones with, you know, I don't know, Keith, the biggest male, the biggest rack the what, you know, the, the greatest creature for a hunter to pursue. And so providing those game opportunities is possible, because Americans were involved, right? And so they begged us, they did they said, they said, Please, please tell your leaders we need this. And if you look at the countries that don't do it, right, so this is not like secret, either. It's out on you know, God bless the internet, you can find anything there. So that the data is there for those countries like Kenya, that that banned it all. You know, that they they're, they're free ranging wildlife populations suffered.
Keith Mark 26:28
Terrible.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 26:29
And continue to.
Keith Mark 26:29
70%. Yeah. And continuing. In fact, one of the things that we heard while we were there, during the IWCC days is Kenya was actually considering following the data and science and reopening up and, and you'll remember this because, for us to have speakers to come in, it had to go through State Department approval, and
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 26:50
Oh, yeah,
Keith Mark 26:50
so on and so forth. But we actually had a committee meeting in DC, when the UN was meeting and the president of one of these countries was at Tanzania, who was you remember that? And he said, he showed up and said, I want to speak and remember, we had to take a break. And our chairman, Bill Brewster, fantastic congressperson from Oklahoma, made several phone calls and said, first of all, it'd be rude if we don't let him speak. He's here. He's waiting. It means that much to him and his country. And we got State Department approval, and so on and so forth. I just can't remember what country it was. But I'll never forget. He basically when he was allowed to speak, he brought a biologist from his country who spoke first,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 27:35
Yup.
Keith Mark 27:35
gave us a long litany of what has gone on since we've banned the import of elephants. That they have, their economy has suffered, their education has suffered, their freshwater supply has suffered. The standard of living for these people have suffered. Their conservation efforts have been thwarted. And he looked right at us. And he said, How dare you solve third world problems with American emotions?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 28:03
Yep.
Keith Mark 28:04
And that's exactly what happens. And you know, as well, as I know, Dr. Jenn, the same groups came every meeting,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 28:13
Yep.
Keith Mark 28:13
read a prepared statement, basically telling us all that we should be hunted, and that we were the worst people in the world. Even though you weren't a hunter, I always got a kick that you got lumped into it.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 28:25
I know.
Keith Mark 28:26
But it was who was it. It was the Humane Society. It was PETA, it was the same people that are just anti hunting at their core. They don't care anything about conservation. That's why and that's, I hate, this is kind of me on my soapbox. And that's why I say because I saw it firsthand. This has to be anti hunting at its core. And the reason I come to that is, if nothing else makes sense to me, because they can't justify it because it will solve the pandemic or prevent one. They can't justify it because it sound conservation. They can't justify it because data supports it. The only thing they get out of this of course, other than crushing foreign economies, third world economies is to prevent hunting at some level, which is their ultimate stated end goal. So that's what I but
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 29:18
Yeah but, and, you know, maybe, maybe I maybe I'm being a little Pollyanna, but I do give the benefit of the doubt. I feel like a lot of people, because I know there's a lot of good people who support organizations like that. Because I mean, who, who doesn't want to save puppies and kitties. Right? Who Who doesn't want to help animals that need help? And I mean, for heaven's sakes, I'm a vet. T`hat's what I do for a living. But I feel like and this is where I give the benefit of the doubt. I feel like people don't have the whole picture, because you have to fight through that emotion. Um, that is put out, you know, in droves to get to the actual objective facts. And so I think it can be difficult for people. And if you don't live and breathe it like some of us do working in animal care, then I mean, you got so many other things you're worried about. So I mean, it feels good to give that, what 30 bucks a month or whatever, or you know, because you want to, you want to do something to help animals. But what you what we really need to do is encourage everyone, I don't care who like whether it's an animal charity or not, I don't care. You got to know where your money's going.
Keith Mark 30:35
Exactly.
You gotta know where it's going.
Well, I want to get to the facts were to take a quick break here. But I want to tell you, this is exactly why I founded and spend so much of my time working with Hunter Nation, and those of you that aren't familiar with it, go to HunterNation.org HunterNation.org, because what we're trying to do at Hunter Nation is to inform the American hunter of issues that impact their lifestyle, locally, statewide, nationally and internationally as the cases in some cases, and to unify the American hunter because when bad policy is being proposed, we need to be there on the ground saying no, we're not going to take it anymore. And I do want to get to the actual facts I want you to kind of get a little deeper to our listeners, Dr. Jen, tell us what the impact of such a I'm going to use the word you won't probably draconian legislation if this is actually passed, if people actually say Okay, let's do it. I want you to tell our listeners what the real impact is going to be to hunting because it matters to my listeners and conservation as a whole come right back we'll be we'll have more Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 31:49
Rght On The The Mark invites you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation Studios, and is the property of Bow And Arrow Productions, produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 27, part two of two featuring Dr. Jennifer Chatfield recorded September 2021, starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, on award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hotheaded. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting, he's Keith Mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:45
Alright, welcome back. And as promised, Dr. Jen, if the Biden administration is able to push through one or more of these pieces of legislation that are out there that's going to ban the import of mammals and birds into the United States, I want to know what you say is going to be the impact and Josh and I before you came on, we're discussing that we just came back from the Yukon and we killed three incredible Alaska Yukon moose. We brought back the cape, the horns and coolers full of pure organic meat that my family and Josh's family and our other friends that were up there, families are going to eat all year. And if I'm reading this correct, we won't be able to do that anymore. So tell us what the real impact of this is to hunters and then we'll get into the impact conservation wise.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 1:39
Yeah, so um, so for hunters based on the policy that's been proposed, at the least if you shoot something outside the US, even if you're just over the border in Canada and are not all the way up in the Yukon, but even if you're just over the border, you won't be able to bring it back.
Keith Mark 1:57
Nothing, not the meat.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 1:58
Not nothing, not right you won't be nothing you'll just have to leave it so you'll be forced to do what good hunters never want to do which is waste it, right? What's the point of that animal given their life if you don't get to you know, share in the camaraderie around the campfire at the hunt camp and, and eat what you what you took that day. If you don't have a souvenir by which you can remember the great time you had together. You guys brought it back, right back. I mean.
Keith Mark 2:31
Let me stop you. I want to do some rapid fire questions. simple yes or no? Somebody goes up to Canada and shoots a moose. Can they bring any of it back?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 2:39
No.
Keith Mark 2:39
Somebody goes to Canada and shoots, ducks and geese. Can they bring it back?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 2:45
Nope.
Keith Mark 2:45
Somebody goes to African shoots, uh,...any game animal over there? Can they bring back the hide and horns?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 2:52
That's a hell no.
Keith Mark 2:53
Somebody goes down to Mexico and shoots a limit of doves. Can they bring it back?
No.
What if they put it in the backpack of all the illegals that are coming across the border that aren't even tested for COVID? Can we get our doves back that way do you think?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 3:11
Laughs
Keith Mark 3:11
Isn't that silly, Dr. Jen. Let's just think for a second.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 3:15
Smuggling is always happening and smuggling will continue to happen. But we learned that
Keith Mark 3:20
We've got 15,000 Haitians sitting under a bridge in Texas,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 3:24
Which is horrific.
Keith Mark 3:25
We have....it's terrible. We have boatloads of Mexicans, Hondurans, el Salvadorans coming across the border. And are they even tested for COVID? Dr. Jen, I'll answer that question. The Democrats and I'm trying not to be political here, in Congress said we're not going to test them for COVID it would be inhumane. Okay, so it's inhumane to test people who are illegally entering our country. It's okay to enter, it's okay to enter the country illegally. Maybe have COVID? Maybe not? We're not testing. But a legal hunter that goes down to Mexico and shoots a mule deer would not be allowed to bring his meat and trophy back into the US. Am I missing something here? What am I missing?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 4:25
No. I mean, if you're interested in conservation, if you're interested in commerce, and what, look what I like to call self sustaining conservation. Which is where you don't have to depend on someone giving you a bunch of money to do conservation, where you have like gainful employment, jobs created where there's a value inherent to the activity. If you're interested in that, you're not missing the point. That will no longer exist. At least for Americans. Now the rest of the world could continue to do whatever they want. But if you're an American, you won't be able to bring that back. And I will tell you that Americans are hunters. Internationally on the global stage Americans are hunters. And so if America moves forward with this type of ban, this sort of draconian measure that that is an appropriate description,
Keith Mark 5:15
Yes,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 5:17
Then those activities will cease. The people who've been depending on them for their livelihood, for the livelihood of their entire community, they will have to turn elsewhere. And we already know where the majority of that energy goes, is that when legal activities are ended, or cease to be available, illegal activities bloom. And so what that means is they become poachers, they become poachers. And so we already know that like, that's like, we already know that to be true. That data was brought to us by people from those countries, right?
Keith Mark 6:00
100%
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 6:00
Hunters are the compition, legal hunters are the competition for poachers, right. And so what I think is interesting, and I'm gonna point out, one thing for your listeners to be sure of is that everyone, I don't think this is a secret. But when a ban or banning anything in Washington happens, it means that you and I are not going to be able to do it. But you know, that there will be little carve outs, and very certain elite people will be allowed to continue with this activity if they want to.
Keith Mark 6:01
Exactly.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 6:05
So you and I will not be able to contribute to conservation in the same way.
Keith Mark 6:43
So it's a great segue, we've talked about the impact it's going to have on hunters, it's just basically going to be you can't do it. So from a conservation standpoint, and this is beyond our borders, obviously. What happens then to the mule deer populations in Mexico, when no one can come hunt them? What happens to the wildlife populations in Canada? You and I both know, and our listeners are pretty well hip to what's going on in those countries in Africa, because of the bans. We've heard it. They're not controlling their elephant populations. Poaching has moved in where legal hunting once was. Are you telling my listeners Dr. Jen, that if this ban comes into place, what we've seen happen in Kenya, what we've seen happen in these African countries are now coming to North America, Canada is going to see the same type of just incredible negative impact on conservation, Mexico, the same thing is that what we're gonna see?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 7:47
Well, I think, to some degree, so I will say it'll be a little bit different because a third world country's impact is going to be more severe, right? Like so, so the Canadian Wildlife if American hunting is banned, effectively because we can't move, you know, bring the the proceeds back in the cooler, as it were. It's gonna get a cold, right? Canadian Wildlife, but African wildlife will get pneumonia, right, a terminal pneumonia. So Canada will still have local hunters, ..... poaching won't be as widespread. The subsistence type hunting for people who are just trying to get a meal for the next day. It doesn't exist at the same level it does in I don't know, the Congo or, you know, Zimbabwe or Botswana. So it will be much more severe and overt in Africa.
Keith Mark 8:48
Well, let me stop here for a second. So I run and own McMillan River Adventures a premier outfitting concession in the Yukon. We outfit for moose and grizzly bear,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 9:01
Are you getting ready to tell me I was wrong?
Keith Mark 9:03
No, no, no, no,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 9:04
It sounds like it, do it.
Keith Mark 9:05
Well, let me just give you something to think about. Right? Okay. 90 plus percent of McMillan River Adventures hunters come from America. 100% of the people that hunt with me take back at least their their antlers and their cape. At least 75% of my hunters take home some or most of the meat from the animals that they kill. Now, if if if I can't get American hunters, I don't believe that any American hunters will come up, if they're not able to partake in the fruits of their labors.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 9:43
Right.
Keith Mark 9:43
They're not going to pay for a hunt where they can't bring their trophy home. They're not going to pay for a hunt where they can't bring the meat home. I fear that we're... McMillan River harvest is 30 Yukon moose every year. What happens If I'm only killing two, then we're going to have a tremendous problem.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 10:04
Overpopulation.
Keith Mark 10:05
I think it's going to have a bigger impact in Canada and Mexico from an economic standpoint, and ultimately from a wildlife standpoint.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 10:13
Yeah.
Keith Mark 10:14
If If, if this goes into effect, that's just my opinion.
Josh Ishmael 10:18
And you didn't have hunters last year.
Keith Mark 10:20
Right? And Josh raises a good point. So last year, when Canada didn't allow border crossing, we had just a small smattering of hunters that came from Canada to hunt in Canada. And so I mean, our conservation efforts up there suffer, right because, you know, we, we everybody that gets a big game tag in the Yukon gets a wolf tag.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 10:44
Ohh.
Keith Mark 10:44
We rely on our owner to shoot a wolf that's, that's their predator management.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 10:48
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Keith Mark 10:51
The whole thing collapses. And I think it's a bigger deal. You know, then some people might think, but
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 10:56
I would agree.
Keith Mark 10:57
You and I would, regardless of the economic impact, which I think is significant, at least to some of us,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 11:03
Uh hum.
Keith Mark 11:04
The conservation impact would be significant. Would you agree?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 11:08
Oh, yes. Yes. And I think that's the unintended piece, I think, well, I guess I shouldn't attribute intent, I guess that is kind of the less noticed at the beginning is that people don't realize, because if you again, if you haven't been there, right, just like I haven't been up to the Yukon. And so I don't necessarily know intuitively what those impacts are going to look like, right. But I do know, in Africa, because Africans have told me, right, African Leadership came and told us what happens. And I have seen what happens with conservation with the live animal, is that if you can't, if movement is prohibited significantly, and severely, then they become simultaneously priceless, and worthless. And if something is worthless, and it might kill me, or my kids and my family, or destroy the cornfield, where we're getting our food, I'm going to go kill it first.
Keith Mark 12:12
Right.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 12:12
Right. And, and that's what we see in a lot of less developed countries. I mean, people are trying to survive. And it's been so very long since Americans had to think about things at that level, that I think we forget. And so again, like what you, you reminded me that came and told us, which is do not try to solve our problems with American emotion. Because it doesn't, it doesn't work.
Keith Mark 12:38
Listen, I want to get to the brass tacks with you here in a second kind of wrap it up. I certainly appreciate the time. Dr. Jen. I mean, you're just a wealth of knowledge. It's just, it's just fun talking to you. And I'm sure my listeners have tons of questions. And I anyone that's listening to this, please reach out to us. And I'm sure you people now are thinking of things that I'm not thinking of that you wish you could ask Dr. Jen. So just email us, reach out to me personally, with the Hey, ask Dr. Jen fill in the blank. I guarantee you we can get her back on here. She'll answer your questions individually. But when we come back, we're going to wrap it up and I'm going to get to the brass tacks right here on Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 13:19
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation. Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God, family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org. today.
Keith Mark 13:38
Welcome back. And of course, we're here with Dr. Jenifer Chatfield. And she's a wealth of knowledge. And I just want to remind our viewers Dr. Jen, you're a veterinarian by trade. Double board certified. I mean, you've worked in zoos. You've worked in various countries, free ranging animals, and you're not a hunter. Is that a pretty good summary?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 14:02
It's Yes, yes, very good. But I, I would, I would chicken fry up backstrap with the best of them. I will tell you that.
Keith Mark 14:11
You're not opposed to hunting, you're not opposed to hunting.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 14:14
I'm not opposed to hunting. It's just it's just you know, it's just not something that I I do. And I will say this, you talked earlier about Hunter Nation. But I'll tell you, you don't I don't know if your listeners are aware you don't have to be a hunter to be a member of Hunter Nation. You could just be someone who loves a hunter to be a member of Hunter Nation.
Keith Mark 14:33
Or you just love the fact that America is based on these traditional values. And Hunter Nation really stands for God, family, country and our outdoor hunting lifestyle. And if you're any of those controversial things like God, family, country, hunting, hey, we want you, we want all the controversial people in our camp.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 14:54
That's right, and I'm American. This still is America that we're in and I think you...
Keith Mark 15:00
Let me check, I mean, let me look at my phone and see what's happening today with our commander in chief. Maybe we're not anymore.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 15:06
Josh, do you see how I just poked him right there?
Josh Ishmael 15:11
You doubled his soapbox in one swift push.
Keith Mark 15:15
If you haven't noticed, with my double soapbox...
Josh Ishmael 15:19
Dr. Jen, stepping back for just one second. Does this this proposed bill have any legs to stand on at all? Is it? Can it come through them? Is there anything possibly that this could stand on?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 15:33
Well, whether or not something has merit has almost no impact on whether it passes on Capitol Hill, friend. I don't want to sound too...
Josh Ishmael 15:44
I am naive.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 15:45
Yeah. And science is not like their forte. And so
Keith Mark 15:54
Wait a minute, are you saying science isn't their forte when they're wanting mandatory vaccines? And I mean, you're not really going to go there, are you?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 16:02
Yeah, no, I mean, I'm happy to go there. We live in America. And, you know, there's choices to be made. Because we live in America. And so yeah, I mean, I, I just wish that more people had the time and inclination to go find the data and the facts themselves. And if they don't have that time or inclination, I wish they would recognize certain facts of life, like Facebook is not a news outlet. Um, I mean, during the last 18 months, if I could have like, put one thing on a banner, it would be Facebook is not a news outlet.
Keith Mark 16:05
Let me ask you this question. I said I wanted to get the brass tacks.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 16:49
Yeah, let's do,
Keith Mark 16:50
Let's just do some rapid fire, short answers, yes or no? If you can.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 16:55
Okay.
Keith Mark 16:56
Josh kinda started this. If this bill is passed, would it do anything positively for conservation?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 17:05
No.
Keith Mark 17:07
If this bill is passed, would it have negative impact on conservation efforts?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 17:12
Yes.
Keith Mark 17:13
Is this bill, if it's passed, at least at some level, could we consider it anti hunting?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 17:20
Yes.
Keith Mark 17:22
If you were to be able to advise my listeners, and my Hunter Nation friends and our fellow... my and Josh's fellow hunters, if you can give them some piece of advice, what they should do, if they don't want to continue to have this type of bad policy jammed down their throats, what do we do?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 17:45
You get informed, and you vote and you show up. And even if your candidate didn't win, you talk to the person who is taking your interest to Washington. You let them know you're there. And you get them to listen. That's it. I mean, that's it, get involved, get engaged, get the facts, and then vote.
Keith Mark 18:07
You know, Dr. Jen, um, I want to recruit you now to go to HunterNation.org. Because that is exactly that is exactly what Hunter Nation's primary goal is, is to inform and to unify American hunters to make sure they know what's going on on policy issues, and then go to the polls and vote their values. You said it so eloquently. I listened. I want to thank you.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 18:36
I have one more. I have one more piece of information, Keith. I know like
Keith Mark 18:40
Give me 10 more.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 18:41
You're headed for the close. But you know, I just have extra words.
Keith Mark 18:43
No, fire away.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 18:45
But for me, with infectious disease being my jam, and working at the intersection of human and animal health. You didn't ask me if I thought that this bill, who purports to stop the next pandemic, if I thought this bill would make us safer if its passed?
Keith Mark 19:06
Would it?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 19:08
No.
Keith Mark 19:09
Tell me why not.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 19:10
Let me think.... no. Answer is still no..
Keith Mark 19:13
Is it hell no?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 19:15
It's a hell no. Hell no. It ain't gonna make us no safer.
Keith Mark 19:20
All right. Well, tell. Tell me back back that up. That's pretty bold. And maybe the Biden administration will listen to this and why are they wrong?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 19:30
Oh, gosh. But that's the thing. That's what I'm telling you. They don't have to listen to me. They just have to go look at the data.
Keith Mark 19:35
Tell us the data, tell us why they're wrong based on your study and your data.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 19:39
Yeah, it's the day it's the data and the kind of the historic information that we talked about, like bringing full circle the beginning of the show. How did how did Covid 19 get here? Did he get here because we had it in our bats. Do we even know for sure came from bats? We think it came for bats. Do we know an intermediate host? We don't. Do we know where it came from? We really don't. And for me, I don't really care. That's not my lane. But it didn't come into the United States because somebody brought in wild mammals or birds, did it?
Keith Mark 20:11
No.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 20:11
Nope! It came here because people, infected people came here, just like every other pandemic has shown up here, largely. Okay. There have been a couple of other hiccups that were not widespread though. The ones that show up here and impact all of us like this, they come here from sick people. They come from sick people. And I'm not saying so look, people are great. I'm one of them. You are a person, Josh, Josh is a person isn't he?
Keith Mark 20:39
Pretty much.
Josh Ishmael 20:40
I'm actually a person and a half.
Keith Mark 20:47
Seatbelt extension number 12.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 20:51
People are fantastic. We are some of them. But we also present the greatest risk for disease transmission to each other. And I mean, I don't think I have to tell hunters that right. One of the reasons people go hunting is get away from everyone else, and go commune with nature. And so it's the original social distancing, for heaven sakes. So passing a bill that says no wild animals, except super special ones, for super special people, because you know, that will happen that's going to be in there. It doesn't make us any safer, won't prevent the next pandemic, would not have prevented this pandemic, won't prevent diseases from emerging from animal populations. That is crazy town. That's going to happen, it's going to happen. So we should put our resources elsewhere.
Keith Mark 21:40
Like maybe building the wall? Well, I did I say that out loud? I am sorry. I appreciate your input. Right? It's brilliant. It's unfortunate that there are people out there that have political agendas that try to jam bad policy down our throat. And, and, and, and really fear monger. That's what I think this bill is doing. We've got an anti hunting lobbyist group that is using America's fear,
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 22:09
Yes.
Keith Mark 22:09
People buy mainstream media for.. they're so afraid of COVID-19. I was driving to work today. And I saw some Pat next to me, that was wearing a mask. In a car by themselves from a county that was not in the county, we were in two counties removed. And I thought this poor, I couldn't tell man or woman, I don't even know if I can call her call the man or women because that might be
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 22:33
These days.
Keith Mark 22:34
Right. This poor person wearing the mask by themselves in their car and I'm like, they have to just be scared, (beep)less of catching COVID if they're in their own car, you know, doing that. So we've got this fear mongering to now they can maybe push some anti hunting legislation
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 22:51
Right.
Keith Mark 22:52
All under the guise of Hey, we're going to prevent you from getting COVID.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 22:57
But you knowwhat the antidote to fear is? Do you know what the antidote, from Dr. Jen, the vet, you know, the antidote to fear is?
Keith Mark 23:03
Tell my listeners.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 23:05
Information, knowledge and information, right. And so that's one reason that people are trying to make it harder to get knowledge and information. Because they just want to, you know, I'm from the farm, right? I grew up on the farm. And when you herd animals, like, if you herd, like a bunch of sheep, or a bunch of anything, I actually think of crown cranes when I think of this, because one of them will pop their head up. And if you let them pop up and turn a look around, then they panic. And then you got to start over, because they start running this away in that way. You got to keep them all going this way with no one looking up for other information, right? No one looking to go a different direction. Yeah, no, no, this is America, go get the information, friends. Go get the information, keep informed, and show up, show up and vote. Because this type of thing is not a one off, and it's going to come back and you don't have to believe me, you don't have to believe Keith, although, you know, he is usually sort of on top of it. For heaven's sakes, no one believes Josh (laughs) but, go get the information and arrive at your own decision about what the best thing is to do. But these policies that are being proposed right now, are not going to keep you safer at all, in any sense of the word.
Keith Mark 24:23
Listen, I can't thank you enough. And that's exactly why I encourage all my listeners, go to HunterNation.org. As the information comes in, we're going to get it out to you. That's why in a minutes notice I found, who I believe to be the leading expert on this, that can give a tremendous twist in our direction. So let me just go through it. So you're obviously a veterinarian by trade. You're double board certified, you've worked in zoos. You've worked with free ranging animals. You've worked in foreign countries. You served on the international wildlife conservation conservation committee. Maybe because of your expertise in Zoology and animal husbandry, and you're not a hunter, is that all accurate?
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 25:09
That is accurate? Yes.
Keith Mark 25:10
Dr. Jen. I mean, you are. I mean, one, you're fun. You're obviously smart. You're entertaining as hell. Um, and I understand you have your own podcast and do all kinds of social media stuff. So those hunters that are listening to you right now and say, God, I'd like to hear and learn more from her. Tell them how they do it.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 25:31
Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad I thought there was a big but coming in that sentence. So thanks.
Josh Ishmael 25:37
No, I'm the big butt typically.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 25:38
Laughter....Great, great. Good to know. Yeah. So thanks so much for that opportunity, Keith. So yeah, I do have my own podcast, myself and my twin brother, who's also a veterinarian. Dr. Jason, we have our podcast called, "Chats With The Chatfields". And you can find us at ChatfieldShow.com where you can subscribe. And we talk about all kinds of issues, because if you're an animal person, if you're an animal lover, if you're a pet owner, if you're not a pet owner, if you've ever thought about touching a creature of any kind, then you're an animal lover, and our podcast is appropriate for all animal lovers in the galaxy, as humans. So yeah, so we'd love it if any of you guys want to check us out, ChatfieldShow.com or wherever you get your pod on. We also have a YouTube channel that you can link to from there. So yeah, ChatfieldShow.com
Josh Ishmael 26:31
And you're not just a one trick pony. You're not just for animals, I see you guys talking about cryptocurrencies and all kinds of different dog breeds. And so don't act like it's just vetinary stuff. And I could sit here and talk to you for hours because you are so bubbly and happy and nice. And I can talk to you about anything.
Oh, you're so nice.
Now I'm just sucking up because I know
Could you please like, could you please send that out to my ex husband? No, I'm just kidding. But, um,
Keith Mark 26:58
That's another podcast that Josh is working on the side, Exes Anonymous.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 27:04
Right. No, but we love to have non veterinarians and in fact, we do our podcast for non veterinarians so that we can help bridge that gap between the veterinary industry and animal lovers. Because, you know, veterinarians are special people. And some of them can be a little prickly. But everyone who is listening to our podcast is on an animal care team of some kind. Whether you're a pet owner, whether you love a pet owner, whether you have animals, we do stuff on livestock, we had a guy come on and talk about bees. We have all kinds of stuff. We've got a couple things coming up where we're going to talk about aquaculture, both freshwater and saltwater. So yeah, so we have some stuff. Oh, we're talking about pot, right puff puff pass. We're gonna talk about CBD use. Is it? Is it legit? Is it not? You know, I'm going to bring data, right?
Keith Mark 28:03
That's incredible.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 28:04
Yeah, and, and we just launched a new recurring segment that's called "V's View From Vet School", where we have a woman who is a non traditional vet student. She has been a forensic analyst for a law enforcement agency. She's been a case manager for the Department of Children and Families. She has been a veterinary technician. She has been in epidemiology and public health. And now she's in Vet school. And so she comes on and gives us her view from Vet school. So if you want to follow her and ever wondered what it's like going through vet school, you can tune in,
Keith Mark 28:37
You know what Josh, it gives me an idea that we had to come up with a new segment called "My View From Under The Bridge", we'd of course first have to get a Haitian interpreter but we just go down there we find somebody we find out what's going on down under the bridge, I don't know.
Dr. Jenifer Chatfield 28:50
Thank you guys so much for having me. I think it's wonderful when hunters and non hunters get together and talk about the things we have in common because again, I think we're all here for the same thing. We really believe that the wildlife are precious, and we want to make sure that they're around forever. So thank you so much for for diversifying your thought stream here and having me on the podcast I really enjoyed it.
Keith Mark 29:17
Thanks Dr. Jen. Hey, stay tuned we got more coming up right after this.
Right On The Mark 29:22
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak. At Mossy Oak, a life Outdoors is in your DNA. Shop there incredible pattern selection and more at Mossy.Oak.com. Mossy Oak feed your obsession.
Keith Mark 29:38
You know what Josh, I just you know, where we're you earlier when Dr. Jen said, you know, she's never been up to the Yukon you should have interrupted right then and say, Hey, I know a guy,
Josh Ishmael 29:48
Right.
Keith Mark 29:49
It was perfect for you, but you didn't do it.
Josh Ishmael 29:51
Well. It's your place. You're the one who has to send out the invites like that, but I was very happy that she did get to the question of "will it keep us safer if it is passed?" because, I mean, realistically, that's what they're trying to push on us. And, if it's lies, then what are we doing here?
Keith Mark 30:08
Yeah, I don't know if it's lies, you know, obviously, and I love her somewhat political correctness. I mean, obviously you and I are a lot more crass than what she is. I think it's just complete horse (beep). I think it's anti hunting across the board. I don't think you know, and then when I listen to experts, like Dr. Jen, I think it's pretty clear that there's no good conservation basis for this. There's no good scientific basis for it. And I, as you know, Josh, your whole life, I've told you, if two plus two doesn't equal four, something's wrong here. And we need to dig a little deeper. Two plus two doesn't equal four here.
Josh Ishmael 30:48
And I try to I go to smarter people than I am, which doesn't take a whole lot. But when I can understand like four words and the things that she was saying to, like, express herself, she's obviously way smarter than me. And if she says that COVID-19 isn't going to come from the horns, the hide or the meat, then I believe her.
Keith Mark 31:09
Right. My deal is somebody, I hope somebody smart enough to get to the bottom of it. I know that Luke Hilgemann, the President and CEO of Hunter Nation has already written a letter to the Biden administration. I know that Luke and Hunter Nation is not going to stop until we beat these hashtag dip (beep) as far back into the, into the weeds as we have to to make sure this type of bad policy isn't enacted. I've already thought of a bunch of questions that I just wish I would have asked her, you know, would we be safer by banning the import of animals versus the import of Haitians? Would we be safer by banning the import of wild animals than unfettered immigration across our south border? Are we safer by banning the import of mammals and birds versus the import of, of sex trafficking and drugs on the southern border? I mean, obviously, you know, I say this rhetorically, because I sit back and I just wonder, what in the living hell are these people that are making policies in Washington DC thinking, when we look at this crisis that's going on down at the border? When we look at what went on in Afghanistan, when it just I could give a long litany of what's going on hashtag dip (beep) right now and this is what they want to focus their attention on. I'm almost at a loss, but I'll tell you what, Josh, you know, when issues like this come up, I'm so glad that we have the resource to find people like Dr. Jen, and for all you listeners out there. I hope this just scares the living daylights out of you like it does me. And this is why we need Hunter Nation. This is why Hunter Nation needs you, my fellow hunters because just like the American Revolution, if five people showed up at the bridge of Concord, you'd still be having tea and crumpets at lunchtime. So we need all you hunters to go to HunterNation.org get active. We'll inform you and then you need to get motivated. become our own activists at the ballot box. And if you come back, we're gonna have more Right On The Mark. Right here. Have a good one.
Right On The Mark 33:28
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation Studios, and is the property of Bow And Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions. Copyright 2021
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Episode 25 featuring Pennsylvania State Senators Brewster and Laughlin lead the way in hunting reform.
This week, our host Keith Mark, was on the road in Madison, WI where he addressed that state’s legislature regarding hunting reform. Immediately after, we recorded this podcast with two state Senators from Pennsylvania who are leading the charge to eliminate a 100-year-old plus ban on Sunday hunting. They also discuss a bill that would automate and simplify the sale of antlerless deer tags in the state. One senator is a Democrat and the other is a Republican but together they demonstrate how hunting can bring parties together and be a unifying force in America.
State senators Jim Brewster and Dan Laughlin join Right On The Mark to discuss why they want to see these changes made for the betterment of hunting and their home state of Pennsylvania.
Guests: Pennsylvania State Senators Brewster and Laughlin lead the way in hunting reform.
This week, our host Keith Mark, was on the road in Madison, WI where he addressed that state’s legislature regarding hunting reform. Immediately after, we recorded this podcast with two state Senators from Pennsylvania who are leading the charge to eliminate a 100-year-old plus ban on Sunday hunting. They also discuss a bill that would automate and simplify the sale of antlerless deer tags in the state. One senator is a Democrat and the other is a Republican but together they demonstrate how hunting can bring parties together and be a unifying force in America.
State senators Jim Brewster and Dan Laughlin join Right On The Mark to discuss why they want to see these changes made for the betterment of hunting and their home state of Pennsylvania.
PA State Senator James (Jim) Brewster
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/senate_bio.cfm?id=1197
PA State Senator Daniel (Dan) Laughlin
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/senate_bio.cfm?id=1766
PA Senate Bill 669- A bill repealing Sunday Hunting Prohibition in Pennsylvania.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?syear=2021&sind=0&body=S&type=B&bn=0607
PA Senate Bill 431- A bill authorizing the Sale of Antlerless Deer Licenses Through the Pennsylvania Automated Licensing System
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?sYear=2021&sInd=0&body=S&type=B&bn=431
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 25, featuring Pennsylvania state senators, Jim Brewster and Dan Laughlin recorded October 2021. starts right now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting, he's Keith mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:47
Well, welcome to a another Right On The Mark podcast. And if I look giddy, I'm actually kind of giddy because I'm in Madison, Wisconsin. And over my shoulder here is the Wisconsin Capitol in the state house. And I literally walked across the street to do this podcast. And I'm excited to do it, because we're actually going to be talking to a couple senators from the great state of Pennsylvania on some hunting issues. But what was accomplished today, here in Wisconsin is historic to say the least, Hunter nation with the leadership of President and CEO Lou killman. And our national spokesperson Ted Nugent and I were on the floor of the Wisconsin senate Introducing 13 Pro hunting bills, that was part of the sportsman's package here in Wisconsin. And the preliminary kind of survey on the matter is that all 13 of these bills are going to pass the Wisconsin legislature, it's going to pass the Senate, then pass the House and find its way to the governor's desk. And what happens there, obviously, we're going to be watching very critically. But you say what are these bills? What are they all about? Well, it's very simple can be boiled down into just a few categories. Number one, they promote more access. For hunters here in Wisconsin, it makes accessing hunting, and outdoor spaces easier. Seems like common sense to me, right? There's also some bills in there that are just true conservation bills, taking a look at habitat, and carrying capacity, looking at scientific and research data on numbers and places, and setting hunting appropriately for that one of those includes hunting the Sandhill Cranes known as the rib eye in the sky.
And so based on science, the data doesn't lie, they need a Sandhill Crane hunting season here in Wisconsin. And so that bills out there too. And the other thing that I am just so excited to see is that through these bills, there's a recognition of the positive economic impact that hunting has here in Wisconsin, don't sell hunters short. They pay for tags, they pay for licenses, they pay for hotel rooms, they pay for gas to get to and from, they pay for meals, they pay for a bar tab, they pay for ice, they pay for groceries, just do the math. And so the more that we promote hunting, the more access we give, the more recruitment we get of hunters, the revenue increases proportionately and so it was just a beautiful day here in Wisconsin. I will tell you this I was in there was a press conference after and and there was this one reporter. And of course, you know, I mean, I just I hate to keep using the name fake news. But, man, I'll tell you sometimes these people are just, they're so ridiculous. In fact, there's a cop out here trying to arrest this guy. It's the reporter that asked a stupid question. But the reporter made a big to do of asking, was this a Republican or a Democrat issue? And I scolded him. And I told him, you know, the beauty of hunting and the hunting lifestyle is that it doesn't know a gender. It doesn't know a race, creed, a color, a political party, or religion or anything. Hunting is truly bipartisan. It's done by families all across the country of all shapes, sizes and backgrounds. And so I told the guy I just said Shame on you for even trying to make hunting and conservation, a partisan issue. And he didn't ask any more questions. I don't know what but Anyway, so on our show today I'm without my sidekick, Josh, because again, I'm up here in Wisconsin. But we're going to talk to Senator Dan Loughlin and Senator Jim Brewster, once a Democrat, once a Republican, I'll let you try to figure out who's who. And they have some bipartisan bills that they're pushing in the great state of Pennsylvania that are very pro hunting. So I'm excited to get them on and find out what's going on pro hunting in Pennsylvania. And you can rest assured that hunter nation is right there up beside them on these bills. And hunter nation is going to be paying attention where the various legislators come down on these pro hunting bills. And just like in Wisconsin, if they pass, we're going to be paying very close attention to what the governor in that state does with those bills. So anyway, stay tuned. We're going to talk some more politics but in a good way, right here on Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 6:00
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation, Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God, family, country, conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org. Today,
Keith Mark 6:19
Welcome back to Right On The Mark and black chat. I'm really excited. I'm always excited to talk to politicians, and especially politicians that believe in common sense, truth and logic. And the two fellas that we have with us today, Senator Dan Laughlin and Senator Jim Brewster, they've teamed up to put forth some common sense legislation that's pro hunting in the great state of Pennsylvania. Senators, welcome to Right On The Mark
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 6:52
Thank you, Keith. It's great to be with you today. And yeah, my good friend Jim Brewster on say, Hello, Jim.
Jim Brewster- WI State Senator 7:02
Hello, everybody. I'm sorry, I'm not on the Zoom. But I think I can communicate pretty well, without that. But thank you for having us on today.
Keith Mark 7:12
Oh, great. Glad to have you. And, you know, I actually just walked across the street from the Capitol in Madison, Wisconsin, where hunter nation that I founded, we just proposed a sportsman's package of 13 bills in the Wisconsin Senate that are all very, very pro hunting, pro conservation. The whole intent is to increase access to the great outdoors in Wisconsin to base policy on science based truth, common logic, conservation principles, fully recognizing the economic impact that hunting and hunters and sportsmen have in the state of Wisconsin. So it's been a great day for me and, and what I love best about having you two fellows on today is your politicians and one of you have an R after your name. And one of you have a D after your name, which is so cool, because in the legislature today, I made a point of stating that conservation, knows no gender, knows no race knows no religion, and certainly shouldn't know any political party. So I commend you too, for working together. Yeah. Senator?
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 8:39
Oh, go ahead, Jim.
Unknown Speaker 8:42
What I was just gonna say yeah, I, Senator Laughlin and I from the beginning of when we met each other. We knew exactly what our responsibilities wherever both the chairman of Game and Fish in the Senate. And in my opinion, one of the greatest states in the country, when the great hunt is hunting states. So our our approach really never had anything to do with with our political affiliation. In fact, as I was listening earlier, to your introduction, Dan has been very good about working in running bills that were hunter related. And, and I thought I heard him mention her parents say earlier that, you know, we don't, we don't get much pushback. If I say clean hunting bill. We did with the Farm Bureau. I think we're somewhat past that. The problem we have is for those folks that are not non hunters. In the state of Pennsylvania, we've got 13 million people, all too often the media, and I'm not criticizing them, but all we hear about is the violence with guns. And sometimes that leads to a little bit of an obstruction to a hunting bill because they know It requires a gun in most cases, and sometimes a bow. So once we get past that emotion, I don't think the bills themselves are very difficult at all to get past.
Keith Mark 10:11
That's awesome. Now, Senator Laughlin, let's talk about one of the bills for starters. Which is this trying to get hunting available all seven days of the week. Tell us a little bit about what's going on up there in that regard.
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 10:28
Yeah, I'll try and make it as brief as I can. Keith. You know, I go back to when I was a 12 year old kid, and my dad was a hunter. And we only had Saturdays to hunt. He was a blue collar, you know, Union Carpenter work every day of the week. So we would only have Saturdays to hunt. And I all I remember asking him, Dad, how come we can't hunt tomorrow on Sunday? And, you know, he would tell me that Pennsylvania doesn't allow New York. You know, so for 50 years, or close to 50 years. I just never made sense to me. And then when I finally got through the Senate, it was it was pretty unique for me to be able to actually have a say, in changing that. And I tell you that when I got to the Senate 2017 senator Brewster and I hit it off right away, obviously very similar backgrounds. We work very hard. And on that bill to get the initial three Sundays done. That was a pretty special thing for me to be able to do. I wish my dad had been a lot. Yeah,
Keith Mark 11:39
yeah, that you we have a similar background. My father didn't finish high school. And he was a union electrician climb poles, the true Wichita line, many work from Wichita all the way up through Kansas City in Chicago for the Santa Fe Railroad. And it's from my father's sounds like you guys as well, that passed on this, this perfect hunting lifestyle. And I can only imagine what it would have been like growing up in a state where you could only hunt one day of the weekend. And a lot of times, my dad had to work Saturdays, and so that technically, and realistically would have prevented me from ever hunting with my father growing up. And that would just seem to be a tragedy. So Jim, where do you get the most pushback on this on the idea of hunting every Sunday, all seven days of the week?
Unknown Speaker 12:34
Well, I, it was interesting, I was up at my camp, I have a camp, about 100 mile from my house here in Alagany county, which is in the Tinesta area. And it's I've had a camp up there. My grandfather had a camp since I was 10 years old. So I've been going up there for a lot of years. And I there's a farmer, he's one of the largest potato farmers in northeastern north eastern part of the country. And he has about 5000 acres and I, I said don't, because I have permission to hunt on it. But I don't have enough, I just go see him. So I was I stopped in the same and I brought this up and he said he had been at a farm bureau meeting. And the issue of Santa honey was actually a non event at their meeting. And I think and I probably want to be careful saying this, but sometimes the folks that are lobbyist and the folks that are hired to support certain groups like the Farm Bureau, sometimes they may be a little more overzealous about a particular issue like Sunday, honey, than maybe some of the farmers are, in fact, central often when we had our hearings, and we did that we had hearings together, we brought people in to testify. One of the one of the best speakers we had was a young man who owned a farm and said, Look, this is a non event for us. And as it turns out, in the state of Pennsylvania, the Pennsylvania Game Commission will tell you, they didn't have one single complaint anywhere in the state of Pennsylvania, of the three days and Sandy honey, which is exactly what sent her off. And I said What happened? It was a non event, there were no violations. And so the forum viewer, I believe they get a lot of credit for maybe not agreeing, but some of this because I think because maybe they might have been slightly misled on how this is going to work. And that's why I think going forward with additional Sundays in Pennsylvania, may be a little easier. And keep in mind Keith central office being a little bashful. The fact that matter is, these were part of the blue laws in Pennsylvania, for the first time in 100 years or more than any of the blue laws have been changed. There was only two things you couldn't do on Sunday, and that was science and sell automobiles. So we broke historical ground and I think some of that history was probably in a way to the idea that you should be at church on Sunday, and those sorts of things, so and I don't want to belabor the point, but I will be personal often back to I wrote that deal about six different ways. just turning a bus interstate at honey after from one o'clock on on Sunday, I tried to verbalize it any way I could make it more, you know, understandable on their end, and an admin center often come in, we redrafted the billing, and got it out there and said, Now listen, and we we need to do this. So we went to some of our folks. And I think Dan mentioned this earlier in some of the inner city areas like Philadelphia, where there's not much churning going on there. And so the democrats in my caucus said, Hey, this is a sport. We think this is a non event, and we garnered quite a bit of support in the Democratic Caucus.
Keith Mark 15:54
Good. So it sounds like it's very bipartisan is is this going to pass senator Laughlin in your opinion?
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 16:00
Well, I think that, you know, like any legislation that we try and push through, there's a lot of a lot of work that needs to be done. You know, on the bill, not on the bill itself, but just there's a lot of phone calls and meetings that have to take place to try and rally support for it. You know, you would think some things would be a lot easier, almost a no brainer, if you will just run through. But I can tell you, it doesn't matter what it is in the legislature, everything takes a lot of effort to push through. I wish it wasn't like that. Although, I guess I will say the flip side of that, is that if there's legislation that you don't like, at least No, that's going to go slowly as well. But I think quite frankly, as Jim had mentioned, this was one of the two remaining blue laws. And for those that are listening, it might not understand that these laws were in place, since Pennsylvania was a colony. So for like, 300 years, and we cracked, one of the two remaining laws, obviously, selling automobiles law was a little newer blue law. And we actually reached out to the Automobile Association to see if we want to make a kind of a package deal, if you will. And they tell us No, we like we like it like it is to leave that one out of it.
Keith Mark 17:24
Crazy. So if it does pass, will the governor signed it?
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 17:29
Oh, absolutely. Governor Wolf doesn't have any issue with us. Matter of fact, he was kind enough to do a, what they call a ceremonial signing of the last bill that we got done. And, you know, you get some good photo ops with the governor sign in your belt. You just have to do that. So he was he was fairly supportive of
Keith Mark 17:49
it. Awesome. Well, hold on, we got to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about another bill that's kicking its way through the Pennsylvania legislature.
Right On The Mark 18:00
Do you have the spirit of the wild. If so check out Ted nugent.com. For one stop shopping for concert updates, hunting opportunities with 10s sunrise safaris, autograph swag, Ted's latest news and anything Ted, visit TedNugent.com.
Keith Mark 18:19
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And I think it's so cool that the one issue that brought this republican and this democrat together, it's hunting. How cool is that? So I understand there's at least one other pro hunting bills. It's kind of common sense based and that has to do with how you get your antlerless tags. Tell us a little bit about that.
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 18:44
Keith, I will say, you know, I don't know. Every law in every other states around the country, obviously with Brewster and I are focused on Pennsylvania. But the way it works in Pennsylvania right now, to get an annual this deer tag, you have to actually fill out an application, put it in an envelope and mail it to your county treasurer. We've been doing it that way in Pennsylvania for I think, close to 100 years now. And it's literally I tell people that I believe it's so it's the only thing in America that you can buy online anymore. Yeah. It's certainly time to upgrade this
Keith Mark 19:26
in so only makes common sense. Senator Brewster that, you know, you can get online. I mean, we, we know, conservation demands that a number of antlerless deer are harvested every year that the insurance industry lobbies for it, the conservation groups, lobby and demand it. So it seems that what we ought to do is figure out a way to make it easy to get those tags.
Jim Brewster- WI State Senator 19:58
Well, if you can And by the way, this was General often spiel. And, frankly speaking probably should have been done a long time ago, I, there was a little bit of pushback from some of the treasurer's you understand 67 counties, and they all have their own treasures, I believe. And again, in some of the smaller counties, this is an important process for them. That's something they own something they control. And anytime you start automating, you know, like I say, you're going to some of our companies are really pretty small. And this is part of that ownership. paradigm, we have to break down. And so I think we're there. I can't imagine anybody not voting for it in the Senate or in the house. So I think that one could sell through really quite easily, unless the central office heard any other complaints. But there was some discussion from some of the treasures, the treasures, treasures, organization, as I said earlier, there's always somebody supporting some books. So there's 67 treasures out there that say, well, gee, this is our baby. And I don't know if there's any revenue loss, I hadn't looked at that. But it there's no question that the current system is just a nuisance, it's a complete nuisance, it's always been a nuisance. And if you look at some of the other in, you can buy more, no license now than he ever could in the past. Now you've got to go through that same process. So often just describe a few different times, you know, so it's not just one time like it used to be, you can get several different devices, you got to go through a similar process. And it's just, it's insane to think that the paperwork involved and very frankly, the other problem you have is under sometimes forget those dates if you missed the date, and then you've got to rely on the infamous us mail. And that's not very comfortable in these days.
Keith Mark 21:53
Yeah,
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 21:54
You know, you know, Keith says the other component to this too, for this bill, Senate Bill 431, is to allow point of sale, or online purchases. And the reason that's important is in this day and age, everything's computerized game commissioned knows exactly how many tags are available by each wildlife management unit. Like senator Brewster mentioned, it's not like it was 30 years ago, but getting a dog tag was like you won the lottery, there's plenty of plenty of available now, they usually have two rounds of sales to try and sell them out. And then the other thing that I would like to mention, in my discussions with the Game Commission about this is, you know, they're trying to manage the actual herd, which takes, you know, a little bit of a little bit of effort. And if, if they have, you know, let's say, opening weekend of animals season, right, you have terrible weather, and they, you know, if they had a way to report it in a sort of, I believe they do now you can report your kill, right on your smartphone, they can they can start to manage in real time, how many, how many tags are available, potentially sell a few more, if nobody's harvesting deer, or dial back a little bit, then those are all things that are are available in the modern world with that, you know, the geolocation, your phone, maybe they have a small area where they'd like to take some more deer, and then they can they can direct hunters and say, listen, there's, there's there's tags available over here, and you're only 500 yards away. I mean, the sky's the limit on what can be done with technology nowadays,
Keith Mark 23:42
right? In fact, you know, I do in the television show that I've done for such a long time I, I hunt in in all states and, for example, mountain lion hunting in Utah, they have a number of tags per unit, and you can go online, and you look at each unit in the state. And you can determine in a given day if there are any tags left available. And it's done on a daily basis. So if I happen to have a tag in unit four, and I happen to take a mountain lion that day, I reported that night. And if that was the last tag in unit four, then the next morning when people are looking where they can exercise their right to take their mountain lion, unit four is off the board. And the hunters responsible for checking in like you said, Senator Laughlin, it's really a way to manage wildlife all in a real time basis, which is you know, I mean, I mean, obviously what we're after here is solid conservation and managing wildlife compared to the habitat. I mean, that's really what it you know what it's all about. So are there any other pro hunter pro sportsmen bills kicking around up in the Pennsylvania State House,
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 24:57
those are the two that that I'm personally Working on obviously with Senator Brewster there's there's a few other bills to just deal with, you know, some minor fishing things and some things like that right now.
Unknown Speaker 25:14
One of the things that I mean, we because it's Game and Fish, we also get quite a quite a bit of fishing inquiries in terms of the same similar things automating making hunting days and, and fishing days available free to veterans, or those with special needs, sort of fine tuning, the whole outdoor fishing and hunting experience for folks that maybe have come back from the military and, and are handicapped, and things that weren't even thought of 30 or 40 years ago. So from that perspective, I think somebody has done a pretty good job in that regard. And I kind of laugh when I hear that I'm listening to your talk, I'm thinking about in our offices, we get quite a few phone calls about every issue. And we talked about automating something, if you filed your income tax return online, you probably got your refund if you went in two weeks, I know people have been waiting seven months because they mailed it in. You know, it was the way things are announced today with with the mayo and you know your any any of you that's the five for dough life is in Pennsylvania, you have to have it in by the Monday, but you can't get it in early. And so if you miss that date, by a couple hours or get it in there too early for getting into the next day, you get to the bottom of the pile. So systemically, you can eliminate that whole problem. And so I just one of those things that will pass as far as any new hunting bugs that are coming through. We kind of rely on at least I do on our Game Commission. I mean, not everybody agrees with everything they do. But they I think done a great job. My, my whole interest in Sunday hunting was because of bear honey. bear hunting Saturday and Monday, Tuesday. It was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday before Thanksgiving. And they went to they could do this without any statutory change. Again, commission said, well, we're gonna start there on Saturday. And then Sunday, you could not have it Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. And then the following week boxes have started. Well, for those of us that are crazy enough to be in a political business, believe it or not, we're usually a Christmas parades the Saturday before Thanksgiving, believe it or not. Yeah, so I was just getting tired of missing the first two days anyway. And so why can't we just signed Saturday and Sunday and then Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, so that was then had an approach from from Bo running, which was equally as important. So we kind of took a logical approach and said, why would why would anybody go to if you talk about the economy, why would you have punters all over the state going to their camps? On bear on Sunday? Now, okay, they can't, they can't hunt. They're on set Sunday. So you've got a void there. And you know, they go home, they go first day, Saturday, Nemo, go home, all that money that was made at the camps and the guys go out to dinner, or local pub or whatever. So it didn't, it didn't make any sense not to do it. But I think what we've done several often I have been kind of we if there's something that's in the pipeline from the Game Commission, that makes it a better state, for the hunters and efficient men and women. We introduced the bills. And as far as I know, once we got past Sunday, honey, it's always been bipartisan even as far as the governor signing and so I don't see it as as an issue.
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 28:51
Jim, just as anecdotal proof that we're doing a good job here. Yesterday, I was on a tour of a highway paving site. And the one salesman for cog Creek was there. And I was just chatting with him after the tour. And he dropped the tailgate on his truck, and I saw that he had his funding equipment in the back of the truck. And I asked him, I said, you know, how do you feel about Sunday hunting and the Saturday opener that we pushed for after Thanksgiving? And he told me he said he had no idea that I was chair gaming fish, or had worked on the Sunday hunting bill. And he said, you know, his son came up from I think it was North Carolina last last year. And he they got to go hunting, they both tagged out on a Saturday and a Sunday for their box. And he said none of that would have happened if that weekend wasn't available then because he had to be back down in the Carolinas on Monday. Made me feel pretty good.
Keith Mark 29:56
That's what I was gonna say you guys should be very proud about that. Because I don't think anybody represents we the people better than the hunting, fishing and trapping families of America. And you know, when when you're out there doing good for those, we the people really all the We the People, I mean, I commend you guys for that, you know, we just went through that and you know, in some places still dealing with this darn damn demick that is just don't our country into a chaos but one of the positives that has come from that is that people are starting to realize that it's, it's actually important to be able to be self sufficient and self reliant. And in 2020, for the first time in a number of years, the number of hunting license sales increased nationwide by a million. So we went from 16 million licensed hunters to 17 million licensed hunters in 2020. Have you guys been seeing that type of increase in people getting back into the outdoors and in seeking solace and in time and in nature in Pennsylvania? Well,
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 31:06
Keith, last year, was the first time that we had a licensed sale increase in Pennsylvania, I believe, I think it was since 1982. I think if I'm not mistaken, I'm sure somebody will Google and tell me I'm wrong, I think the increase was roughly six percentage, which is fairly significant. If especially if you look at the folks that are typically, you know, in that 18 to 22 year old range where they, you know, maybe after Thanksgiving, they all have to pack up at that back wherever they're going to college. And those what I've noticed, even within my own family structure between my brothers and I, these college kids, if they have to pack up and leave for college instead of hunting that weekend. And they do that for three or four years, we lose a lot of them permanently. And that was one of the other reasons that I felt so strongly by getting this bill done. And also, it wasn't a bill that we passed, but I pushed for quite vigorously I might add for that Saturday opener instead of waiting till Monday. And I think, from what I've heard, at least the anecdotal evidence we had on we had a lot of college kids out Woods last year, and I'm pretty proud of that.
Keith Mark 32:25
Well as the founder of Hunter ation, and a guy that's working literally every day for hunting rights and for the American hunter and sportsmen. I don't know what what's going on up in Pennsylvania. But in the midst of all of this, boy, just complete partisan politics. You guys have obviously done an amazing job in a bipartisan way, just common sense legislation. And you know what the beauty of this entire conversation has been all Bentiu that our listeners from all across the country cannot tell which one of you is the Democrat, and which one of you is the Republican. And what I said today on the floor of the Senate in Wisconsin is that's the way it should be when we're talking about hunting and conservation issues. Because they are nonpartisan, I commend you two gentlemen, I think you're a fantastic representation of for the great state of Pennsylvania. And on behalf of the hunters, they're in the hundreds everywhere, I just want to thank you and commend you for working on a bike pattern in a bar bipartisan manner, to promote laws and policy that that celebrates and rewards hands on conservation. So thank you both. Appreciate that
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 33:52
case. And I will tell you that in the in the Pennsylvania Senate, Senator Brewster and I are two of the most reasonable people you meet. And I think that's partly why we get along so well and work on we work on other stuff as well, not just in this space.
Keith Mark 34:09
It's the way it needs to be and we either you guys have anything you want to add to the conversation before we say goodbye.
Jim Brewster- WI State Senator 34:19
I just like to thank you for what the work you do, and for giving us an opportunity to talk about our great states and maybe we'll have to get together in person somewhere central often. with Mr. nogen, or whomever we can spare at a time I I'd love to hear their conversations in person. But thank you, Keith, for having us on.
Keith Mark 34:40
You're very welcome. I'd love nothing more than to share a hunting campfire with two true champions for the American Hunter, whether it's with Ted or anyone else, but again, gentlemen, I I thank you and and I hope that you can take you know, Justice truth. Common Sense and logic approach and the bipartisan way that you talked about these issues back to your state house and get some of the other folks with the RS and DS behind their name to realize that we're a lot more similar than we are different. And if we can all learn a little bit like that, I think we have a real chance to get this country to heal and get back together so I thank you both.
Dan Laughlin- WI State Senator 35:25
Appreciate that, Keith
Keith Mark 35:28
Take care fellas.
Right On The Mark 35:32
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak at Mossy Oak life Outdoors is in your DNA shop, their incredible pattern selection and more at Mossy Oak, calm Mossy Oak, feed your obsession.
Keith Mark 35:47
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And how refreshing. How refreshing was that? To hear politicians talk with truth, logic, and common sense. Even I could understand them. And the beauty of it is, they never said who the democrat was. They never said who the republican was. They both talked about their love of hunting, and how much they believe that pro hunting legislation is good for the we the people in Pennsylvania, I'm, I'm refreshed, to be honest with you, there is hope. Because there are two incredibly brilliant and accomplished and successful senators in the state of Pennsylvania. They both live the hunting lifestyle. They both support this incredible, perfect hunting, fishing, trapping way of life. And they're willing to work for we the people to promote pro hunting legislation in a bipartisan manner. Now, that's exactly what we're trying to do at Hunter nation. I don't care whether you're a Republican and Democrat and independent or somewhere in between. If you believe in the traditional values that hunters and hunting families all across this country stand for. You're our person, guy or gal, man or woman, tall or short, white, black, brown, green or purple, tan or anything in between. Doesn't matter what your religion is. If you're pushing and promoting pro hunting legislation, and you're a politician, thumbs up. But if you're not, we're going to make sure that your constituents know where you stand on the issues. And if you're not forest, you're against us and our nation's paying attention. And when you see the number of hunters that are realizing the power of unity, the number of hunters out there that are going to Hunter nation.org and sign up to be part of this army soar voice gets louder and louder and louder all across this country. We are a force and going to be a tsunami soon. So if you haven't joined go to Hunter nation.org. It will keep recruiting politicians like the one we have the ones we had today from both parties, but they support hunting. God bless you on come back with another Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 38:37
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of Bow And Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions Copyright 2021
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Episode 24 with John Bergman (aka Jimmy Big Time)
John Bergman, aka Jimmy Big Time, joins our host, Keith Mark and they discuss their shared memories from years of producing and hosting years of television programming on Outdoor Channel. They discuss what life is like after TV and how raising the next generation of hunters is so enjoyable. John’s alter-ego concept, Jimmy Big Time, was ahead of his time in the outdoor TV world but that life is behind him now. Or is it?
John Bergman, aka Jimmy Big Time, joins our host, Keith Mark and they discuss their shared memories from years of producing and hosting years of television programming on Outdoor Channel. They discuss what life is like after TV and how raising the next generation of hunters is so enjoyable. John’s alter-ego concept, Jimmy Big Time, was ahead of his time in the outdoor TV world but that life is behind him now. Or is it?
FACEBOOK: @JimmyBigTimTV
Right On The Mark 0:00
Transcription is auto-generated. Producers are not responsible for errors.
Right on the mark Episode 24, recorded August 2021, featuring John Bergman with a special appearance by Jimmy big time starts right now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, He's humorous, and a bit hot headed. But when it comes to all things, God Family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 0:46
Welcome back to another right on the mark podcast. And you know, Josh, our guest today is one he's a friend of mine, John Bergman. People out there might recognize John as Jimmy big time because he portrayed Jimmy big Come on.
Josh Ishmael 1:01
Have you seen him lately? Because I don't think they're gonna recognize him. Well,
Keith Mark 1:03
you know what, I don't know. Maybe he's going for the Duck Dynasty? Look, I'm not sure but Jesus, yeah, or Moses or one of the others. But, um, you know, the thing about John, that the viewers never fully grasp, but I really want to get into this with him. John is a great hunter. And John is a great patriotic American Great fuck, as smart as heck. I mean, he went to Notre Dame. And then when he portrayed Jimmy, that he was ahead of his time, because people didn't fully grasp that he was playing a part. So if you're out there listening today, and you just want to have fun, I guarantee that you cannot have a conversation with John Bergman, where we're going to get him to talk about Jimmy big time, which I'm really interested to find out what's going on on that front of his life. But if you stick around, we're going to talk about Jimmy big time, we're going to talk about you know, the critical issues that are facing hunters today. I'm probably going to get John to comment on Hunter nation which, because he's smart, right? He's a Notre Dame guy, he ought to be able to give us some insight. So if I was you, I'd stick around because coming right back, we're gonna have John Jimmy big time bourbon, right here on right on the mark.
Right On The Mark 2:16
right on the mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation fighting against anti hunting rules and regulations every day to protect your right to hunt, visit Hunter nation.org. To learn more, and to join today.
Keith Mark 2:30
Welcome back. And if you're watching this video wise, don't be shocked. Because this is John. Jimmy. Jimmy big time bourbon. It's with this John. Hey, welcome to right on the mark. Buddy.
John Bergman 2:44
Thank you so much. Good to be here. We like to see you guys again. It's been a while.
Keith Mark 2:48
Yeah, it has been you know, you really were and are kind of a pioneer in the outdoor world. And I want to talk about that. And I certainly could not have you on the program and not talk to you about Jimmy big time and what you did there. But, you know, some of our viewers might not be familiar with John Bergman, the man behind Jimmy big time. So I want to spend a couple seconds about that. I mean, in my intro, which actually said a lot of nice things about you. So I hope they had you muted but I mean, you're a real hunter in your own in your own life. You live the honey lifestyle, don't you, John?
John Bergman 3:24
I do. I am a real hunter. I've been all my life. You don't grew up with my dad hunting. And now I'm more of a dad hunters and a real hunter because I let my kids do most if not all of the hunting and I'm just along for the ride.
Keith Mark 3:38
Almost the best type of honey in it. I mean, I've I've loved doing that with my kids.
John Bergman 3:43
And absolutely no, that is the best part. I just to experience it through them and watch them. Enjoy it and live that lifestyle. It is fantastic.
Keith Mark 3:54
You know, what, what kind of stuff do you guys have as a family John?
John Bergman 3:57
Um, we do a lot of some hunting for deer hunting. We've dabbled a little bit in elk hunting, not a ton. You know, I'm in Minnesota. So I'm a little bit removed from Elk. But we'll do any anything that we have a chance to do turkey hunting, obviously in the spring, and then we'll get into the fishing side of things too. Yeah, whatever is available to us. We're gonna get after
Keith Mark 4:20
it. Yes. If my memory serves me correctly, you actually spent some time this past Spring hunting with a mutual friend of ours turkey hunting down at Kris Kobach farm in Kansas, right?
John Bergman 4:33
I did. I did. And he Khobar. Jimmy big time being took the good spot and shot a giant turkey and then my son Jimmy, Jimmy, big guy me and I got up in the morning to go out with him and he said that I'm going to just go out with a cobalt girls and you can just go back to bed. Well and then he shot a giant turkey. Big Tom in there. I said in bed. Holy. Yeah.
Keith Mark 4:56
Yeah. Well, there you go. Like you said, you're the dad Hunter now so I'm sure It was a small sacrifice for you to get an extra two hours sleep
John Bergman 5:03
without. It was a real kick in the gonads to have him shooting. Yes, Turkey was life without me there but
Keith Mark 5:09
Well, it happens. Well, you know, you and your brother and several of your friends up there actually produced a number of successful outdoor programs over the years true.
John Bergman 5:23
Yeah, we've been doing it for about 20 years. So we've either alright produced or been a part of a lot of different productions of a lot of different shows.
Keith Mark 5:33
And obviously, I can brag Yep, a little here. When Shawn and I were doing McMillan river adventures, you guys, you know, did a lot of the production work for us for a number of years?
John Bergman 5:46
Yeah, no, we was great industry to be in here with like minded people. You're out there, out doors, getting it done. And it's, it's been a real blessing. We're lucky to be part of
Keith Mark 5:58
who are some of the other shows that you and your team's work with over the years, John? Well, we
John Bergman 6:03
did Rocky Mountain Elk foundations, Team elk for nine or 10 seasons, we've worked at some level with really anybody from white elder to you and your team and and whether it's just been in the editing side, or actually in shooting behind the camera, which is what I did most field production. We've touched I mean, numerous, numerous shows.
Keith Mark 6:27
Yeah, awesome. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, John. And when we come back, I'm actually going to turn it over to Josh, because, you know, obviously, he did most of the field production, the camera work, if you will, for McMillan river. So you guys have a lot in common. I think it'd be important for our listeners to understand that when they're watching outdoor television, that the guy behind the camera really makes it all happen. So I think there'll be interested in this next little segment. So stick around, we'll get to John and Josh Ishmael cam to talk a little bit about fuel producing hunting shows. Awesome.
Right On The Mark 7:05
Do you have the spirit of the Wild? If so check out Ted nugent.com. For one stop shopping for concert updates, hunting opportunities with Ted's sunrise safaris, autograph swag, Ted's latest news and anything Ted? Visit Ted Nugent calm.
Keith Mark 7:24
Welcome back. And you know, John, you know how it works in in television. You really want to steal the camera as much as possible when I was, you know, doing the show with Shawn Michaels. Of course, the viewers, they wanted to see me and they wanted to see more of me. But you know, Shawn Michaels, WWE legend, for some reason, had this misguided idea that he should be on camera, you know, at least equal to me, I never understood it. But as a camera guy yourself, you do understand how critically important it is that when you're trying to tell the story of an adventure, that you have enough video to make sure that visually, the viewer has truly been on the adventure, right?
John Bergman 8:12
Well, if you don't have video doesn't exist. That's the simple fact of the matter is some of the greatest things can happen. But if you don't capture it, and it's just a tall tale or a story, you got to have the video to truly tell the story to the viewer. Right.
Keith Mark 8:25
And you know, a lot of people that watch outdoor television, they might see a guy recreate the draw or recreate the, the safety going off, which just helps tell the tale. And those are some things that oftentimes you can't get live action. But the one thing you can't fake and outdoor television is the shot. And if you're for example, like Josh and I have done 20 times together, or maybe more and more and more than that, you know, film you know, a big moose hunt with a bow a muzzle loader or a gun or whatever we were using at the time. Um, you get one shot and that's me with the with the bow and arrow and more importantly, it's the guy with the camera to capture it. I mean, that's the one thing that can't be faked and outdoor TV.
John Bergman 9:15
Oh, absolutely. And it's it has to be a team effort because you can't do one without the other you and the guy shooting the animal to make a successful show he's got to be you know, in tune with the cameraman and likewise the camera man in tune with the hunter to get it all at the same time.
Josh Ishmael 9:30
And Jimmy I think I think one of my proudest moments is calling Keith off the world record moves at 200 yards with a muzzle loader to later shoot him at 10 yards with the same muzzleloader.
John Bergman 9:41
Philia Josh you knew that was gonna happen right? I don't know. Yeah, Keith didn't know and probably was frustrated and was probably a little salty with you but you knew how it was gonna play out cameraman have that sense about you know you behind that camera and it's, you rule that world so the host can understand that you don't do it.
Keith Mark 9:58
You know, people don't realize that This guy's but when you are in the field as the TV Hunter, all the shots are really dictated by the camera guy, at least in our world. Has that been true in your world? John?
John Bergman 10:14
Well, yeah, more or less, I mean, everything is so fluid that that's the only point of view that you have is the point of view of the camera as far as putting together a show, so it is dictated by the cameraman, because his view is the view that counts.
Keith Mark 10:28
Right? You know, we say it all the time in production meetings, or we would say, hey, look, Josh, no matter what happens, you need to make sure you get the shot, because I'm not going to wait on you. You know, and we have those conversations all the time. But when it boils right down to it, everyone that's part of the team realizes that if we miss capturing that, then you don't really have the show that you want it to portray to the viewer. So in the end, when the Jai schmo cams and the John Bergman's of the world say, hey, look, I don't have it. The shot really doesn't happen, right, which
Josh Ishmael 11:05
in turn makes you have to go on another hunt to spend more money. So, I mean, all that stuff needs to be taken into account.
Keith Mark 11:12
That's right. Have you ever had an experience John, where, where you called your guy off of a shot in? You know, things really went south after that?
John Bergman 11:25
Um, well, I did. I called up the CEO of the oil foundation from shooting the biggest elephant was life because I couldn't get the camera where it needed to be. And I've never lived that one down.
Keith Mark 11:37
Well, at least you lived. I live Josh called me off of an animal years back. That almost costs certainly me and probably him our lives. You want to tell John that tale if he doesn't already know. It's a little exaggerated
Josh Ishmael 11:53
from Keith point of view. But from my point of view, I was 10 yards behind him. And it was the first time I'd ever filmed the big game animal. And it was a moose. So I didn't I wasn't starting small by any stretch of the imagination. So a moose came in to probably 25 yards and and I was told specific instructions of do not let him shoot that moose if there is a twig between him and that moose. And there was literally one Willow between the Musa Keith and I told him no and, and the rest is kind of history. And that moose turned straight to us and charged Keith and he shot it on the charge almost writing it. And it went probably 40 yards and tipped over dead and it was made for great TV again, John, like you said, I knew exactly what was going to happen. We would be fine. This was like this was golden moose award worthy stuff. And we're here to tell the tale.
John Bergman 12:50
Yes. Yeah. And you don't want the dull broadside. 40 yards, shoot on tip over you know, if you can't get that moose to charge you what's the point? Right, we're both making high quality television, not just from the middle stuff.
Keith Mark 13:03
Right, Josh? Like he said, he was extremely safe 11 yards from the moose because he was 10 yards behind me. So yeah, that was a fun experience. But you know what, John, one of the things about doing outdoor television is, you know, I've I knew Josh's dad, you know, from high school, and really all my life. And then, you know, I actually coached Josh and have known him since he was a very, very little guy. And he's friends with all three of my kids, both my boys especially, and hunt with those guys in their own right, you know, but when you're doing outdoor television, in the travel and everything being in such close proximity there you become really good friends or you literally hate a teammate, right?
John Bergman 13:47
But it can be taxing for sure. And people can certainly get on here. The hours are long. You're up early, the actual physical side of it is tough. I mean, dragging all that stuff around in the woods is not a simple task in and of itself. Then people can wear on each other for sure. So
Keith Mark 14:04
yeah, well in our world you know, Josh and Shawn and I and all the people that really cam that work with this, you guys as part of our team, you know, we all became just great friends. There wasn't ever a bad bad apple in the bunch. Well, let's talk hunting. Right tell me the best hunt the most exciting or something big that you ever got to share from behind the camera and it came out great.
John Bergman 14:32
Oh, why? Um Well, that's a tough question. This time behind the camera I've been on.
I've seen i There were a couple of good Muslims in Northwest Territory. We're really good but you know, I've been on so many hunts in so many elk hunts really with nine years of rmef I was on between five and eight hunts. A year. So I've seen so many just incredible things that as much as you hate to say it. When you're in it, you maybe don't take enough time to appreciate.
Josh Ishmael 15:15
You sound you we sound spoiled, knowing all the beautiful places that we've seen and filmed and, and they're like, Man, this is a pretty, it's like, wow, every sunrise is gorgeous. But when you're seeing on top of the mountain and the next mountain or Africa or New Zealand, or we've been so blessed to see those amazing places, but I do have one question for you. I know you've filmed Cameron Haines, and you and I are, you're smaller than me. But you're not a small guy either. How was it? Oh, cutting with Cameron Haynes hiking up and down those mountains when he runs 26 miles a day.
John Bergman 15:47
It was good. Kevin, I got along really? Well. He is a great guy. At one point I did just growl at him and give him a little bit of a verbal jealousy match with him because I was struggling to keep up and I think I told him if you want to flex your calves, you're gonna have to do it somewhere else for right now. Yeah, absolutely. He wanted to climb Mount or something. And I was like, this ain't happen. I can't do this. But I really enjoyed my time with Cam. He's intense. And I'm sure he was really biting his tongue, dragging me around the woods with him. But he was he was always good to me. So I enjoyed it. He's a good guy,
Keith Mark 16:25
any close encounters with Moose or elk or something that kind of, you know, maybe not the best time you've been on, but something exciting that our viewers would get a kick out of here.
John Bergman 16:36
We've had a lot of close encounters, you know, I've had like, like, I've never been charged by Moose, but I've certainly had them walk straight to me and keep coming and keep coming. And when you're looking through the viewfinder, you really don't have a real good perception of how close or far things are awake because your world is just through a viewfinder if you happen to take the time to pull your head up and look them in the animals or it can be right there within yards and it's it's kind of a shock, which is exactly
Josh Ishmael 17:03
why the moose charged me because you got to figure when at that time I was shooting with a Sony E x one and the viewfinder for people now was pretty much a an iPhone three. So your your whole world is from an iPhone three screen. Isn't that great? And you have no perception of what's going on around you all you know is what you're seeing in that screen. And so when I saw that moose, I didn't know how far I mean, you had no idea how far he really was. So that's why I called them off and turns out he was 12 yards.
John Bergman 17:34
In the world, there was a time where I was filming PBR and I was filming with a stock contractor, not hunting but still fun. And he a guy got bucked off the ball and the stock jumped in the ring and ran across ticket to the shoots and so I followed him and I ran across all the bull was still in the ring, and I'm looking through my viewfinder and the ball is coming and charging me and so I panicked and walk through a viewfinder and I went to the wall to climb up the fence. But it was just all billboards. There was no plans for me to climb so I was like scratching at these billboards in a panic jumping up I climbed up finally got a fence and got away from him and I told all the dudes Did you see how close that was? You see how close that bullet was? And we went back and reviewed the footage and the thing was like 50 yards away wasn't embarrassing everybody looked at me like I was an idiot
Josh Ishmael 18:23
no this this Gore is brought to you by O'Reilly auto parts
John Bergman 18:27
except he wasn't even close but in my viewfinder he was really close.
Keith Mark 18:30
You know John we're gonna take a quick break we promised the viewers you know we talked about Jimmy big time and I do want to talk to you about what gave you the idea what it was like filming the show and what kind of reaction you got from the fans the viewers of Outdoor Channel I think it's pretty interesting stuff I know part of it but let's give the rest of the story to the right on the mark listeners. We'll be right back with John Bergman aka Jimmy big time right after this.
Right On The Mark 18:59
This segment of right on the mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak at Mossy Oak life outdoors is in your DNA shop there incredible pattern selection and more at Mossy Oak calm Mossy Oak feed your obsession.
Keith Mark 19:14
Welcome back. We're with John Bergman and John Hey, listen, I want to get to the part of the show that I'm really the most interested in. I mean you did what I thought is one of the greatest projects to ever air on Outdoor Channel. Certainly one of the most if not the most entertaining the funniest show that ever aired on that network Jimmy big time. So let's kind of walk our listeners through it. Um, first of all, tell them what the concept was if they never saw Jimmy big time.
John Bergman 19:48
Jimmy big time concept my brother and I came up with it together and we've been working in the outdoor industry, the television industry for a while and you know if you're a part of the industry, part of the industry as he goes in and big personalities. So we came up with the character of Jimmy big time, which was a mockumentary outdoor television, though it was following Jimmy and his life and kind of mocking outdoor television. And Jimmy was a buffoon that really thought he was something and just kind of Bumble his way through life. And then we had a cast that just by happenstance built around him that worked tremendously. We had a group just had a blast.
Keith Mark 20:26
So basically, it was a set calm for the Outdoor
John Bergman 20:30
Channel. Yeah, exactly. You know, we've come up with a concept or a situation like you said, like, sit down, and we would have a skeleton and then we would just go out and let it let it happen. And we had a good crew.
Josh Ishmael 20:43
Now that would be called Reality TV.
Keith Mark 20:45
Yeah. You know, and when I first saw the the promos for Jimmy big time, there was no mention that this was a set. com I mean, the Outdoor Channel played this show as if it was Stone Cold legit. There was going to be a new Outdoor Channel host that we were going to be introduced to it was Jimmy big time. And then out roll Jimmy big time.
John Bergman 21:11
Yeah, the fox hat and the leather coat. And the whole nine yards. It was all Jimmy
Keith Mark 21:18
and Jimmy had sponsors in the show basically showed what it's like to be a host on the Outdoor Channel, you had to deal with sponsors. You had to get a honey in. And then the rest of the people on the team have to deal with the ego of the guy on camera, which in that show was Jimmy big time. So you got the reality, like Josh said the reality part of outdoor television with a little behind the scenes look of what's going on.
John Bergman 21:47
Yeah, absolutely. And then it was just poking fun at ourselves, has nothing to do with making fun hunting because obviously we love hunting, and we love fishing, but it was making fun of outdoor television
Keith Mark 21:58
is what it was. Basically the way I looked at it is the hunters get this. You know they're stereotyped anyway. And you guys played off on that. And then of course, everybody in the industry pokes fun at those hosts that think they're like, you know, Britney Spears and Brad Pitt and all that rolled into one right and so we make fun of those guys and gals, you know, privately and sometimes just right to them. And you guys took that stereotype of the of the American hunter and the kind of the fun that gets poked at show host anyway, and and you guys just ran with that.
John Bergman 22:38
We did. And we had a great time. It was like we you know, we had our own little really crappy RV. And it was it was like a club. It was like you're young again, and then a club and hanging out with the guys. And I mean, a lot of the best stuff would never got on film, because it's just like being a hunting camp with the jokes and the shenanigans. And yeah, it's fantastic. It was a blast.
Keith Mark 22:59
So when this aired, of course, the viewers at home, I mean, they should have known that this was a set calm spoof kind of deal. But I hear tell that not all of the viewers of the Outdoor Channel fully understood it. We received
John Bergman 23:15
a lot of hate mail, a lot of hate mail, and the people sending it were extremely creative. They came with some fantastic comments. And we even made a show about that. So or a segment about that. So it was they were very creative, and they use colorful language all nine yards
Josh Ishmael 23:35
to make you proud.
Keith Mark 23:36
What really these people missed it. They thought you that Jimmy big time was a real person that was just that in that?
John Bergman 23:45
Yep, absolutely. They thought that Jimmy big time was an actual show host and actually treated his people around him as bad as Jimmy was treating lackey. We just couldn't believe like he kept working for us. And they would all it was just on and on. It was fantastic to get those emails and read them and just shake your head and laugh because
Keith Mark 24:06
you realize that what you were doing was spot on. Trade that guy so well. These people believe that you know, honestly, I don't think I've ever laughed harder in my life than the show. One of your sponsors of Jimmy big time was dead down when, at the time my one of my closest friends Mani McGough was the owner of dead downwind. And you guys did a whole segment on dead downwind where Jimmy was convinced that if he drank dead down when his farts would not smell absolutely.
John Bergman 24:41
It actually made him disappear once he was invisible to beer and there was yeah, that was a blast too because it was just as much as you come up with and you could put it out there and be as ridiculous as he wanted to be. Because that's what Jimmy was.
Keith Mark 24:53
Tell us another bit you guys did that. Obviously you thought was hilarious that maybe got over To the top of the head of some some hunters out there.
John Bergman 25:03
Oh, well, we did. We we did superimpose Jimmy's head on to Jimmy's body to reuse footage to try to make it look like it was new footage. So like we were repurposing an old show and then trying to make it into a new show. And, and as you know, some people go back in the archives for their episodes because in my opinion, they probably didn't get enough episodes that year. Yeah, so we're gonna poke a little fun at it that way. And God, we have so much fun
Josh Ishmael 25:31
chatting. My favorite was when you you had a big buck coming in and you shot the feeder dead center, dead center, the feeder, but the good. The good thing about your show was people believed it because it was so well shot, the production value of it was I mean, it made it look like you're actually on a hunt. So you guys did an incredible job of filming it. And it took I mean, I was a part of filming one of them and in the hours behind it, right? It looked like a real high or real show and you had no idea any of that stuff was going on? Yeah, the
John Bergman 26:01
only downside is we screwed around so much that we could never actually accomplish a very good hunt. You know, you couldn't get near to come in because you were so busy screwing around in the standard setting up the eggs or
Keith Mark 26:12
just want to ever you know, you did get a turkey in the blind once
John Bergman 26:15
we got to Turkey in a blind but Jimmy was that good. That was the deal with that was that was spokes one of our partners idea. And that was a brilliant, brilliant idea.
Keith Mark 26:26
You know, one of the funnest times we had filming McMillan river is that the Jimmy Big Time crew in the McMillan river crew met up at Ted Nugent place in Michigan and we filmed an episode. And man, I'll tell you, it just it was like slapstick comedy. You know, I mean, Jimmy was just so funny. And of course, it ended up with the McMillan river crew in a physical altercation with the Jimmy Big Time crew. And that'd be just, you know, like Josh said, though, as funny as that was, the the filming was grueling. I mean, no, I mean that how things got set up. But I mean, the end result is every time I see that, even though I was in it, I laugh my ass off.
John Bergman 27:07
It's so funny. We had a blast up there. And that's what was amazing was how welcoming like you guys were and Nugent was, and a lot of the other people and we always figured, well, they just don't want us to make fun of them. That's why they're being nice to us now. But you guys, you got right in the mix. And it was it was a blast and people that are okay with making fun of themselves. That's my kind of people. Yeah.
Keith Mark 27:30
And, you know, before we take another break, John, you know, one of the things that just drives me crazy about the outdoor world is, well, egos get in the way. And some guy says you shot a small buck, you're not, you know, you shouldn't shoot that book, or you're shooting a compound, you're not a real hunter, because I shoot a Trad bow or whatever it might be. I mean, we, as hunters in this community, we've just seemed to find ways to divide ourselves as opposed to unifying ourselves. And I really thought that the Jimmy big time concept would have been that kind of rallying cry. But unfortunately, because it went over the head of so many people, you know, I mean, it was, you know, I think your ratings were incredible. But ultimately, you know, you moved on to other projects. So I'm going to lobby for you to bring that back. And you know, I started it, as you guys know, in 2016, your team was intricately involved in some of the things, the video projects that I was working on, with a little political flair to it not hunting, although it was hunting. And I started this organization, Hunter nation, and the whole idea behind Hunter nation is to try to unify this hunting space that we bring hundreds of all shapes, sizes, colors, disciplines, animals, regions, under one tent or around one campfire. What's your thought on that concept? John?
John Bergman 28:53
Well, you have. And Josh, you can speak to this too, you guys have been in the in the field with a lot of different people. And I've been in with a lot of different people. And it is amazing how hunters with very few exceptions are so like minded. And and it's so easy to get along with the people that share those those same values, and how they can rally together and connect is a little bit of a still real stubborn for me, because we are all alike. And we can all sit in camp together. And I haven't been to a camp where there's division. I've never sat in any hunting camp, where everybody doesn't just sit around the fire and smile and laugh and enjoy themselves and whether they are good friends or they're just meeting and as long as they have those those shared values that are so important. And then we just can't afford to let those slip away or slide away and, and disappear. We got to get guys together gets people together and stand together to get things going the direction that they need to go.
Keith Mark 29:53
Yeah, and so that's why I'm actually I've done a lot of great fun things I should say hate to use the word Great, great to me, for me. But what I'm most proud of John and hopefully going forward or even be more is what we're doing here with Hunter nation trying to unify the hunting space to make sure hunters realize that this lifestyle that we live in love is truly in jeopardy. And it's it's certainly under attack by a fanatical left that if they had their way, they would not only destroy our traditional values of hunting, but all of these traditional values. And that's why I'm so proud that you know, that Hunter nation stands for God Family country, and this uniquely American hunting lifestyle. And so, if folks are listening, I just encourage you to take a second and write down Hunter nation.org. And if you're not a member, just go check out Hunter nation.org. See the amazing things that Hunter nation is accomplishing some of the fights that we're in the middle of right now, and how important it is that hunters joined together in one unified voice, to protect really all of our traditional American values, including hunting, as I do believe, John, that we're in the epic battle between good and evil right now in America.
John Bergman 31:18
It is and, you know, hopefully, we can all stand up together and keep things going in the right direction. I think you're doing a fantastic thing with honor nation. So
Keith Mark 31:28
we I do have a few more questions for you. So we stick around to one more segment. Sure. All right, we'll come back with John aka Jimmy big time right after this.
Right On The Mark 31:40
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Keith Mark 32:17
Okay. Hey, John, I do have another question for you. Was there ever a period of time or maybe even now where sometimes the lines blurred between John Bergman and Jimmy big time, the more you were, you know, immersed in that character?
John Bergman 32:32
Well, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a camera man. I'm stuck behind the camera all the time. So I don't even have an ego. As a camera man, Josh, you know, you're not allowed to have an ego or even an opinion, really. So it's not true.
Josh Ishmael 32:45
I tried to get any cameo of me in that show.
John Bergman 32:52
But my wife would argue that there might be a little bit of Jimmy in me,
Keith Mark 32:55
so yeah. Does Jimmy just come out sometimes, like, are you in hunting camps where, you know, people recognize you? And they say, Hey, you're Jimmy big time. And then all of a sudden, you're not John anymore? And you just, I mean, can you control it? Or is there some times where you lose control there?
John Bergman 33:15
Well, it's like there's a switch. And I don't even know completely how to access that switch. But when it gets trapped, it's Jacqueline Hyde. It's sick. It's John Jimmy.
Keith Mark 33:25
So you know what i i am going to make it my professional goal to figure out how we can flip that switch again and get Jimmy big time back on the air so he listened stick around we're gonna come back with with more John Bergman. On right on the mark.
Right On The Mark 33:42
This segment of right on the mark is brought to you by Carlson choke tubes. Find out what makes Carlson the Shooters Choice by visiting them at choke tube.com and start getting better patterns. Today. Carlson choke two.
Keith Mark 33:57
Welcome back to right on the Tim, what's going on there? Are you seeing that on the screen that I'm seeing? Well, what's going on Josh?
Josh Ishmael 34:07
I think he's lost connection.
Keith Mark 34:09
John, John, are you still there?
John Bergman 34:13
John? You're talking to Jimmy big time. Mr. Mark. You'd want to talk about being right on the mark. Jimmy is on the mark.
Keith Mark 34:24
I don't know what has happened. But I mean, this is actually Josh, this is my favorite day in media. I mean, hey, do you remember me Jimmy? Do you remember when we were doing outdoor television and I was doing Shawn Michaels McMillan river adventures and we actually did a show with Jimmy big time.
John Bergman 34:43
Hmm, no, no doesn't really doesn't ring them. Bell.
Josh Ishmael 34:48
Sean didn't chump beat up Jimmy. Yeah, that's why he doesn't remember right
Keith Mark 34:52
in our show. Remember there was a I mean, you claimed an animal that Shawn shot clearly Shawn shot we videoed it was in In an altercation happened and I'm pretty sure I beat lackeys acid broke his glasses and Shawn. I mean he moron you know,
John Bergman 35:11
I don't we did a show once I remember in Michigan, but that was that was some old CDs music guys like they were I don't know, I don't know what they were doing out there but they were it was it was some kind of music revival it was like Richard Keith Richard Richard Marx Richard. He's really old guys anyways and then some guy was really gravelly voice how he hit the high notes when he saying, you know, phenomenal really but yeah, no I don't recall see a new author. Well
Keith Mark 35:48
what are you doing now Jimmy? I mean, you know, we haven't seen you on TV. So I'm assuming that the show got canceled?
John Bergman 35:55
Oh, no, no, that's crazy tag. You know, there was all those rumors about Jimmy holding on on dear cocaine. And, you know, disappearing. Really what happened was I needed a little me time. So I went on a walkabout spend some time in the bush. You know, a couple years and I know that the world went crazy. Without me. It was you know, Where's Jimmy? How can you find Jimmy searches left and right didn't find Jimmy. And I just I'd felt like I really transcended outdoor television. Like I'd done. Above nothing. I was better than any of you. But I was really looking down at you. You know, so I really felt like I needed to get back to my roots get out in the woods. And just be the humble man that I am.
Keith Mark 36:48
Yeah, well, I noticed that you've got some facial hair now. Jimmy. Was that planned? I mean, what what led to that
John Bergman 36:56
lesson when you spend years in the bush like I did, just living amongst the animals was nothing but a fig leaf to cover your parts? No razors, none of this other baloney I just got down and dirty one with nature where I belonged, you know, cuz that's who Jimmy is. Jimmy is one with the animals. He speaks to the animals he can live with the animals. And let's face it, number one animal
Keith Mark 37:20
what what is that you're wearing Jimmy? I mean, it almost looks like maybe Mrs. Jimmy's house cat kind of had a bad day.
John Bergman 37:29
Come on. Now. This is this is one of the finest Fox belts ever known to man. I actually rescued this critter while it was trying to forge a river and then I strangled it killed it. streetside made myself a hat. And it really served me well. All those days in the cold, frigid bush out there. So you know, I've got a whole collection of these. Just what I do,
Josh Ishmael 37:52
from what I recall, Jimmy was I mean, he was the lavish lifestyle. Where did you get that painting from in the background back there? That is actually a Renee
Keith Mark 38:07
you know, it has people if people told you, Jimmy that you kind of have started to take on the personality of Randy Quaid?
John Bergman 38:18
No. No, no. It isn't up to you. You've been taking care of yourselves at all. You look older than you did.
Keith Mark 38:29
Yes, yes. And, you know, unlike Jimmy, Shawn Michaels, McMillan river adventures was canceled, and not for the reasons that that you would think. Basically what happened is the other producers on the Outdoor Channel, submitted a petition to the Outdoor Channel and said, Shawn Michaels is so unwieldly popular that none of us can get any publicity. Were you part of that brigade? Jimmy or what?
John Bergman 39:01
Were you talking to me? I actually stopped listening to you right when he started talking, like you were just, I don't know, the commercial break or something. I didn't realize.
Keith Mark 39:12
How did you get along with sponsors back in the day, Jim? Well, and I call you Jim. It just seems more adult than Jimmy.
John Bergman 39:20
I'd rather you call me Mr. Big time. I mean, your Excellency is usually pretty good too. But as sponsors they just clamor for me clamor for me, clamor for me, and I'm like, I don't sell out. Stuff like that. I'm not gonna put stuff in where it doesn't belong.
Keith Mark 39:39
You know? Yeah,
John Bergman 39:40
I think we all I want to
Keith Mark 39:49
sew on obviously, you're still making a living promoting certain products I can tell. Um, so what about lackey? Did he finally have enough of it? Call it quits.
John Bergman 40:01
Oh, no, like, is he still around we still power around together, you know, he's still gets my shoes and ties him for me and fetch me coffee in the morning and, and really runs most of my errands and stuff and, and we're just tight good friends.
Keith Mark 40:17
Well, um, is there any truth to the rumors that circulating in a lot of the upper echelon outdoor world circles, that there are enough sponsors? putting their money behind a new Jimmy big time project that they may lure you out of retirement?
John Bergman 40:35
Ah, you know, they just keep throwing money at me. And, and it's like, these Blow Pops are excellent, guys. Fantastic. They've got bubblegum in the middle of them. It's, it's better than the whole Tootsie Pops. This is the charms blue pop was good for everybody, when anybody else can feel to them actually prevent cavities. isn't enough money to make me compromise my values? And do things I don't want to do to come out of retirement but to get back on TV? Ah, you know what? I don't do it for the money. I do it for the people. I do it so you can see me. You know, also I can be in your living room and you can watch me and think Man, I'd like to do that. But you can't because you're not me. And that's what I do. So I don't need money. But chips and Bhopal, Coca Cola. I was going to have her on Shea day and every day. Tell your children.
Keith Mark 41:42
Well, um, what about outdoor sponsors? Have those all left you are where you're at in that world?
John Bergman 41:51
Well, you know, when I went on the ground and disappeared they were concerns I had 15 or 20 bullets stacked over my daughter people just want me to shoot their stuff. And I don't believe in it. I can't use it. You know, and when I was out there naked in the woods surviving with my own hands. I can just prove myself what do I really need? Just me just Jimmy.
Keith Mark 42:15
Well, hey, Jimmy. Um, we're gonna have to take a quick break. Um, because you know we have some we we do have some sponsors on the show that I need to give a little love to you know anything about that.
John Bergman 42:28
I do not know anything. Who are you sponsoring?
Keith Mark 42:31
Well, Hunter nation is a proud sponsor and there's a lot of other outdoor world folks that we promote regularly from Moscow to cold to it. How am I doing that's kind of Jimmy big time ish. What I just did there. You did kind
John Bergman 42:47
of slide it in them. Is it conversationally like we did that conversation? Oh, what listen
Keith Mark 42:55
if if you're willing to stay tuned we'll try to come back with more Jimmy big time right after this. I love it.
Right On The Mark 43:03
This segment of right on the mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak at Mossy Oak a life outdoors is in your DNA shop there incredible pattern selection and more at Mossy Oak calm Mossy Oak feed your obsession.
Keith Mark 43:19
Well, welcome back to right on the mark. Jimmy. Jimmy big time Jimmy big times with us today. No, just John John Bergen. Yeah, you know, John, Blow Pops chips. Coca Cola. Right, right.
John Bergman 43:40
No, I've been trying to not do that stuff. I've been you know, I'm getting older. I've been taking care of myself running things so.
Keith Mark 43:48
So sponsors out in the woods naked.
John Bergman 43:54
All that nothing. Yeah, I must have missed us. No, no, just just been a family man. And by the way, I'm enjoying life. Josh, it's me.
Josh Ishmael 44:10
sweetest thing I've ever seen.
Keith Mark 44:12
Well, you mentioned something that's near and dear to my heart, obviously family and I and you know, John, I do obviously relish our friendship and I know you're a family man, know your wife know your kids. How important is it that we connect with our families and our friends in this outdoor hunting environment.
John Bergman 44:32
It's vitally important and it's a way of life is a lifestyle. It's a set of values that you don't think you can get anywhere else. Other than being in this outdoor life being in and it's not about catching and it's not about killing. It's about the experience and being out there. More and more as the older I get. I don't I don't shoot very many things anymore. I don't care. I don't I like to have my kids and watch them do it. And I like to do be there with them in those moments and the stuff they're learning out there is invaluable. You can't find that in a classroom, you can't find that on concrete. It doesn't. It doesn't translate. It's it's only in the outdoors.
Keith Mark 45:15
And you know, John, I know you're a man of faith, and you've raised your kids like that, in fact, there. Some folks even say you might have went to Notre Dame and was part of the football program up there for a
John Bergman 45:26
bit. They might say that, yep.
Keith Mark 45:30
So, um, what about faith and how that ties into your outdoor experience?
John Bergman 45:36
You know, some of the times well, since I was very young, I've never felt closer to what everyone call it God source. People have all the different names were. But I've never felt closer to God than then when I've been in some of those outdoor experiences, whether I'm just in the woods, sitting quietly for a while where you can actually hear yourself think you don't have all the distractions and noise. There's no powerlines buzzing, there's no cars honking, there's no cell phones draining. I don't think I've ever felt closer than an experiences in the outdoors.
Keith Mark 46:12
Well, if you were to be able to speak directly to every hunter on the planet, what would you tell them how important it is that they find a way to unify and speak with one collective voice to protect this, this just so precious and perfect timing lifestyle.
John Bergman 46:32
Um, I think we need to get it together as a as a, as a group, you know, similar to what you're doing with Hunter nation. And we need to understand that if we're not together on this, it will disappear and the people get blindsided by it disappearing are going to be dumbfounded as to what happened, we gotta wake up. We got to be out there, we got to do it together, we got to make sure that our kids have the same opportunities that we've had, if not better opportunities. And if we don't do it together, we're gonna lose it.
Keith Mark 47:03
Very, very, very well said, Well, hey, John, I hope someday we can have you back. And really what I hope is that we can get that switch flipped back in a in a positive direction, because I would love nothing more than to find a way to get Jimmy big time back on TV, or streaming or something. So let's figure out how we do that together, buddy.
John Bergman 47:28
I haven't seen Jimmy in a long time, but that'd be fun. We finally get back.
Keith Mark 47:34
John, thanks for being our guest and the rest of you stay tuned and we're gonna come right back with a little wrap up on right on the mark. For sure.
Right On The Mark 47:44
This segment of right on the mark is brought to you by Colt still making history pistols, rifles revolvers find the right Colt for you today by visiting colt.com
Keith Mark 47:56
Well I don't know about you guys. But that was a unique experience for me
Josh Ishmael 48:01
that was a first for right on the mark Yeah
Keith Mark 48:03
My goodness. I mean, I don't know if the guy really realizes that he Sybil you know I mean you know he is Jimmy big time but personalities for sure what in the world? I mean, you know we went straight from John Bergman to Jimmy and I don't know that I would tell this to John cuz he's my buddy but and I wonder if his wife tells him this that Jimmy is actually a little bit more entertaining than John.
Josh Ishmael 48:27
Oh yeah a bit more handsome to
Keith Mark 48:31
listen guys. If you haven't gone back in the archives if you haven't seen Jimmy big time, it's somewhere out there. You can find it and in fact I'm going to talk to John and see if we can actually make those links available even if it's on the you know the hunter nation website or however because if you have not seen Jimmy big time, you are truly missing out it is it was revolutionary when it came out. I have the DVDs I literally have watched him recently and I laughed as hard now as I did back then if you haven't seen him, check out Jimmy big time. And you know what, I think we ought to start a petition. And let's get Jimmy big time back. Well listen, I hope you enjoyed this right on the mark podcast because if none of you did, sorry, because I certainly did. I know Josh did. It was a fun time with John Bergman, aka Jimmy big time. And if you come back next time, we'll have some more hopefully entertaining, right on the mark.
Right On The Mark 49:32
right on the mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on right on the mark are not necessarily those of our host guests or sponsors. right on the mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of bow and arrow productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions copyright 2021.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Episode 22 & 23 featuring Cuz Strickland
Episode 22 & 23 - Two episodes with Cuz Strickland, Senior Vice President of Mossy Oak and host of the “Fist Full Of Dirt” podcast.
Outdoor legend, Cuz Strickland is one of the most approachable and genuine character in the world of hunting. Cuz and our host, Keith Mark, reminisce about how they met and trade stories of their times with Shawn Michaels. Cuz and Keith are both fans of the WWE so both were excited to meet Shawn at a Shot Show years ago. Shawn went on to co-host MacMillan River Adventures with Keith and Mossy Oak was a key sponsor.
Episode 22 &23 - Two episodes with Cuz Strickland, Senior Vice President of Mossy Oak and host of the “Fist Full Of Dirt” podcast.
Outdoor legend, Cuz Strickland is one of the most approachable and genuine character in the world of hunting. Cuz and our host, Keith Mark, reminisce about how they met and trade stories of their times with Shawn Michaels. Cuz and Keith are both fans of the WWE so both were excited to meet Shawn at a Shot Show years ago. Shawn went on to co-host MacMillan River Adventures with Keith and Mossy Oak was a key sponsor.
Cuz talks about his early days at Mossy Oak. He shares how he and Toxie met and the struggles they faced building a camo brand and then trying to create entertaining hunting TV shows in the early days of portable video gear. Today, he hosts his own podcast, “Fist Full Of Dirt” which is popular with all ages.
Outdoor legend, Cuz Strickland and our host, Keith Mark, pick up where they left off last week and get down to telling hunting stories and how they met.
Cuz tells stories of some of his all-time most memorable hunts and one story that is sure to bring a tear to your eye.
He and Keith also discuss the current threats to hunting today and the need to unify hunters and get them to register and vote. Cuz shares his perspective on what hunters need to do to ensure their passion is passed onto to future generations.
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation - HunterNation.org
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode Number 22, part one of two with Cuz Strickland recorded August 2021 starts right now.
He has hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunter's lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God, family, country and hunting, he's Keith Mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 0:43
Welcome to another Right On The Mark podcast and I'm kind of like the kid in the candy store today. Um, you know, my guest today is a true legend in the outdoor world, somebody that I've looked up to all this time and then when I had the opportunity to actually get into the outdoor television world, somebody who treated me like an equal for.. from day one. I mean, he is a great guy, he's a family man, he's one of the best hunters that that ever walked this planet but more importantly he is just a good man, he's a true patriot and boy, you guys don't want to hear me today we're gonna want to hear Cuz Strickland talk about how it all began for him and and really what he's doing now because it's all good stuff. Stay tuned. We're gonna have Cuz Strickland. None other than the legend Cuz Strickland right here on Right On The Mark podcast.
Right On The Mark 1:33
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation fighting against anti-hunting rules and regulations every day to protect your right to hunt, visit HunterNation.org. to learn more, and to join today.
Keith Mark 1:47
Welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast and a man that needs absolutely no introduction, although I'm going to give him one anyway. And I'm going to tell you what I'm most proud of. I'd like to introduce my friend, the legendary Cuz Strickland, Cuz Welcome to Right On The Mark.
Cuz Strickland 2:02
Hey, I heard that opening. And that's humbling. But you know, you're the cool one. Because the first time I saw you, you were hanging out with Shawn Michaels and I'm like, who's the dude hanging out with Shawn Michaels? Now, I knew you're from the television show, but that's a whole nother level getting to hang out with the "Heartbreak Kid". And, you know, anytime you see people like you and him and whoever it is, Donald Trump Jr, whoever, openly talking about hunting and fishing and conservation, all it and that's good for everybody. Especially, you know, hunters and fishermen.
Keith Mark 2:37
You know, I couldn't agree with you more, Cuz. And you know, I've shared, you know, campfires with you hunts, and been blessed to come down and stay in your home, you know, meet your family and on. I mean, you're just just a great ambassador for hunting and conservation and just this lifestyle in general. And now I'm sure there's people out there going, Oh, Cuz Strickland, he's done everything. And they listen to your podcast now and seen you on TV and as the brand ambassador for Mossy Oak, but it wasn't always this glamorous, was it, Cuz?
Cuz Strickland 3:15
No, back when all this started, you know, they're, they're weren't any, basically weren't any hunting videos or anything, you know, so I had I listened to an audio cassette that we were Will Primos did that where they record the sound of an actual turkey hunt. And I thought that was the coolest thing ever.
Keith Mark 3:34
Yeah.
Cuz Strickland 3:35
It was it was it was epic. But back when we started, you know, Will came to me, I was working in a sporting goods store, and he had this giant camera he bought from a TV station up there. And I was saying I was sending him VHS tapes of turkey hunts we were doing, I was using his mouth call. And he just shows up with this giant camera. And it was very heavy and very complicated. But you know, back then, there was no game plan. We just kind of jumped in with both feet. And I was lucky enough to be around him and Toxie Haas who are very visionary, and we kind of watched this outdoor industry thing just kind- poof- pop up. So but now it was not easy. It was it was hard.
Keith Mark 4:18
Yeah. And you know, you're so humble. I don't think you watched the outdoor industry blow up. You guys actually blew it up. I mean, you were the pioneer on the ground of these of the early videos. Tell us about that.
Cuz Strickland 4:32
Yeah, it's uh, you know, there were, I'd never seen any videos and Will said, "I'm gonna make one, you think he could film the hunts?". So, I was like, man, I once I figured that camera out, I figured out how to turn it on but back then. It had a giant three quarter inch tape with a separate deck, a giant cord to plug into the camera, the camera had tubes and so did the recording deck, so you had to turn on the recording deck, punch play and record, wait for the tubes to warm up. Same thing on the camera. So the fact that we have any video at all was incredible. And by today's standard, it was horrible back then that will stay at our we were using high tech stuff.
Keith Mark 5:14
Right? If you think about the hunters that were out there back then, you know, you only knew what was going on in your neck of the woods, you did this hunting. And that's really all you were, you know, around. Back in those days, you might have somebody that would come to your church, and on a Sunday, you do potluck, and they'd show slides of their African Safari or something like that. But there was really nothing like what you're talking about. I can only imagine the kind of feedback you started getting when hunters from all around the country got to start seeing a different type of hunting, you know, right there.
Cuz Strickland 5:48
Yeah, it was, it was it was pretty epic for the time, you know, and that first video, we did "The Truth About Spring Turkey Hunting" is absolutely a cult classic. It's crazy how many people to this day say, "I bought that video", "I rented that video", "My dad gave me that video". It's crazy. But it was kind of the first one it came out about the same time Gene and Barry did that, "Bow Hunting October Whitetails" and that man, that was a, you would have to have been to the "before" and "after" to see what an impact hunting videos had. But those were some of the early ones. And, and people still remember me from that? I guess.
Keith Mark 6:32
Well, you know, in before we started today, we were working through some technical issues. And myself, you know, I really have not embraced technology like like, I probably should have like my kids have. But you know, Cuz you were there at the very start. And then every step along the way, you've been involved on the cutting edge of what's going on in getting hunting videos or hunting streaming to the hunting population. And is that something that you just took an interest in so you can learn the cutting edge as it as it developed there? How'd that happen?
Cuz Strickland 7:10
Well, I credit the staying on top of things to Toxie because he, you know, we had a giant TV, you know thing going here where at one point, we were producing five shows one for the NRA. One for Remington we and 2 or 3... It was crazy how many TV shows we had, and three of them were year round. You can't imagine how much video it takes to do that. But anyway, Toxie was ahead of the curve when he kept saying, "You know that technology is going to eventually go away is this social media and stuff". So he started, he started pushing on us, you know, and watching this and watching that. So he was always at the forefront saying, "we're gonna have to be ready to change vehicles here". My personal come to Jesus moment was when my granddaughter who's moving into Mississippi State as we speak, when she was about 12, we were at my house and she was on her phone. And, you know, I was kind of getting on to her about being on the phone so much. She said, "Pop, if you're not on Instagram, you're not relevant."
Keith Mark 8:19
Hmmm
Cuz Strickland 8:19
And I got to thinking about it that night and I said, "You know what, I'm gonna be relevant to my grandkids", because that's just that's here to stay. So I know, I kind of dove in with both feet on Instagram and Facebook and all that kind of stuff. And it's been amazing for me, because I can actually spend an hour or so at night, you know, commenting with people back and forth. It freaks them out usually when they'll comment on a post I make and I answer them. But man, you can you can keep your finger on the pulse of what people are thinking out there. And to me, that's just priceless.
Keith Mark 8:54
Yeah. And you know, you've done a really good job with that, you know, I follow you on the social platforms, and you're very accessible, you know, I mean, you'll post something you'll respond, you respond to a lot of other people's posts and and i think that goes a long way for somebody with the celebrity that you have when just rank and file hunters like me see you jumping on one of our posts that's meaningful.
Cuz Strickland 9:16
Well, I appreciate you saying that. I follow lots of people and there's lots of influences influencers out there. I don't really consider myself one of those, but I just kind of made a commitment. I was going to just do stuff on my posting like if I was having a conversation, I don't really hawk product. I eventually I every once a while I'll put a Mossy Oak picture up there. I've been working form for ever, 35 years, but I don't I don't talk about products and you got to do this and you got to do that or you got to use this. And you see so many influencers out there doing that. And to me that's a bit of a turnoff. We were the same way in television. When we had television sponsors, we would use those products in the shots. And that's when you got to see him or they had a 30 second commercial because I think people are so smart nowadays, if you start trying to sell them something right out of the gate, they're going, they're not going to follow you very long.
Keith Mark 10:18
Right? That's one of the things that I think has really changed in outdoor television in the decade or so that I was involved actively and then with what we're doing with Great American Tales now, it went from, "Hey, use our product during the show when appropriate" to "Hey look, if you don't have our product and talk about our product and in show our product", and you know, I mean that sponsors got more and more demanding, which then we would get feedback to the show saying stop hawking product, we just want to watch your hunt. I think you're right, the viewer's smart, they see what you use, they see what causes you to have success, and then they purchase appropriately.
Cuz Strickland 10:56
Yeah, well, a perfect example of how to do it's Ted Nugent, he'll follow some products up every once in a while, but he's so dynamic, and so exciting and saying, a real outdoor legend, and he didn't even do it that much. And that's that's pretty good guides to follow right there. You know, he's got millions and millions and millions of fans and but he he handles that pretty well, but especially a lot of them right now. That's every post is about, you know, scope or a pair of binoculars or rangefinder, whatever it is. And I've tried to do stuff because my youngest daughter who got me up and running with you guys just a little while ago,
Keith Mark 11:37
Yeah,
Cuz Strickland 11:38
She follows them off social media, and she'll bring she brought me some insights and stuff, like from the dashboard. And she said, you know, and I got close to, I don't know, 50,000 Instagram followers, and she said, eight, I think it was like 80 something percent or more, or males between 16 and 28 years old, and I was stolen. And I said, Well, I can't be following me. For me. It's got to be the content, because I'm always trying to give some good advice and life advice, go do this, listen to this person and all. And I think that I think some of that's missing in society today. And I'm not saying parents are bad or nothing else. I'm just saying. I think especially younger people are looking for somebody that's confident and honest. And will tell them you know, how to kick the ball down the road, maybe?
Well, I've got a lot of topics I want to talk with you today cuz so stay tuned, and we're going to come right back with more Cuz Strickland after this break.
Right On The Mark 12:40
Do you have the spirit of the wild? If so check out TedNnugent.com. For one stop shopping for concert updates, hunting opportunities with Ted's Sunrise Safaris, autographed swag, Ted's latest news and anything Ted? Visit TedNugent.com.
calm.
Keith Mark 12:59
Welcome back. And Cuz I'd like to jump into your Mossy Oak tenure. I mean, you've been at Mossy Oak for decades. In fact, you know, I mean, no, no offense intended to Toxie and his family, but you really are the face of Mossy Oak to a lot of hunters out there. I love hearing your stories about how it all started and hawking cammo from the trunk of your car. Tell us a little bit about all that.
Cuz Strickland 13:26
Toxie was a he was a fireball. My wife and I were at one of the first Shots Shows I every went to. He'd been in business like six months. And she actually grabbed me said there's some guys down here, I think it was Houston, I'm not sure but she said there's a camo guys have a camo pattern from Mississippi and I went down there and I saw that "bottom land" had it wrapped around this giant concrete pole now, I squinting my eyes and looked at that and went, Wow. So I went on there and it was Toxe and Bill only two employees. And after spending some time with them, I know we were kindred spirits, so to speak. And I started when I went back I started calling some of my dealer friends and all that saying you got to get this stuff. It's unbelievable. Here's how you display it, take some pictures out in the woods, put them up on and Toxie called me a couple two or three weeks later and said Dude, you're selling more than we are. You got to come to work for me. So I did. And it was a tough road to hoe Bill Sugg and Bob Dixon rest his soul and I were the sales people and did everything else. We used to have a contest every month to see who stayed in the cheapest motel room. There. There was no money for anything. And I don't think I ever lost that contest. As you've driven by this place. I stayed in a place in Florida. Yeehaw Junction, Florida. I don't remember the name of the hotel. You been turkey hunting there, you've driven by and a sign outside said $10 rooms $10 and I walked in and I said $10. And the guy said, okay, nine, I stayed there for $9 one time. But everybody thinks it was this big, you know, we were selling stuff out of our trunk. And nobody knew what Mossy Oak was back then it was a, it was a struggle. And then just kept pressing. Oh, and I will tell you one quick story. We're moving along, moving along Toxie called me in his office one day. And he gave me this 45 minute spiel about PR, telling me what had happened with Ben Lee and Knight and Hale, and they did it this way and how PR is such a people driven thing. He went on and on and at the end, he said, he said, You're the guy that can do that. And I said, Hey, I'm in, what's PR stand for? I didn't have a clue, you know what he's talking about. But you know that next week, I was the PR guy, and I fell in love with that, that phase taking outdoor writers because back then, you know, we didn't have the internet and all this social media stuff, the way you you promoted your product was through magazines. I mean, how many editions of Bowhunter have you read and read Field and Stream and I took all those guys hunting. In the first two, three years, I just did it out of my house with my buddies, and they loved that, you know, and that was as Toxie would say that's what put the second story on the office building was the outdoor press. We we utilize that and I enjoyed that. I've always liked hosting people and kind of waiting on them, it's just I guess I get that from my mom, you've been to my place.
Keith Mark 16:42
Yes. And what an honor.
Cuz Strickland 16:43
And it was a I just enjoy doing that making people smile.I learned with outdoor press is uh, you know, you all I would tell him is, look, tell me what you're writing about. I'll have every prop in the world air and why you're in camp with us wear Mossy Oak, I don't care what you do to make a living after that.
Keith Mark 17:03
Right.
Cuz Strickland 17:03
And I had such great relationships, they were calling yo and outdoor writer would call and say so and so's doing a camo piece for, you know, Outdoor Life, give them a call. And that's the way it all took off. And then it naturally evolved into television and stuff like that. And again, there was there was a no big roadmap to go by. We were, Toxie was jumping in, he was always very brave about taking profits and putting them back in, especially marketing. He, he was very good at that.
Keith Mark 17:35
You know, I did McMillan River Adventures for 10 plus seasons. And very proud to say that for every season that we did outdoor television, Mossy Oak was, was my camo sponsor. And the thing that I loved the most about that. For those people that don't do outdoor television, you know, you have to sell your sponsors every year, you have to one you have to have a quality program. You have to, you know, have enough ratings that the company feels like you're moving the needle for them but from the very first year to the last year that Shawn and I did the show together every time I was ever in the Mossy Oak booth anytime I was around you, anyone on your staff all the way up to Toxie and his son, man, you guys are made us feel like family. And really that I think best describes the Mossy Oak relationship was it it was like family?
Cuz Strickland 18:29
Well, that's good, good you say that. And that is just how we roll. I mean, it's not some kind of mission statement. I did a talk about five or six weeks ago is a big wild game supper at a church, lots of people there. I don't know. For some reason I get asked to do those a lot. Anyway, I did my thing and I got through, and there was a lot of people there and this lady comes out and she's got four little boys, like 12, 10, 8 and 6 hour like stepping stones. And she said, I love your podcast, I put it on my boys phones. And I said Really? She said Yeah. She said they love hunting and fishing. And there's no cursing its G rated. And I never thought about that. But I said you know again, that's just that's just kind of how we roll. I used to we had all these field producers and we had a lot young kids running cameras trying to break in. And I would tell him all the time. Look, I don't care if you bring back video or not. I don't care if it's stellar video or epic shots and all that kind of stuff that'll come to you. Your behavior is what ranks the highest with me. I said and the best advice I can give you is act like you mom's behind you. And you know, your reputation follows you everywhere. And we were all in most of these guys they did a super job. And I said you know if you get invited back there you know you handled it well but I would tell them if you're with an outfitter, you help with the firewood or the dishes or whatever it is. First one up, last one to bed kind of deal and that's worked well.
Keith Mark 20:13
Well, it's great advice. And in fact, you know, it's the kind of advice that a lot of young people just aren't getting right now cuz, you know, one of our mutual friends Jim Liberatore, former, you know, President/CEO of the Outdoor Sportsmen's group called me one day right during the midst of all the, the the riots all across the country, specifically in Portland, and so on. And he said, you know, what, Keith, I saw a picture of these protesters and I didn't know what they were looking at the shot was back at them, and you can see the fire reflecting on their face as something burned. He said, these young people are missing something in their lives that I'm convinced Keith, if we could just take those kids and just teleport them to a campfire with some of the legends like you Cuz in the industry, and the reflection of the fire on their face was coming from a hunting campfire and the stories they were hearing were from guys just like you that there would be little doubt in my mind that we can change the world overnight.
Cuz Strickland 21:16
Oh, um, I don't doubt that, you know, I was a, we gave away a hunt. a fundraiser turkey hunt one time. And the guy that bought it was a, like a Missouri Supreme Court. I think he was in the Missouri Supreme. He was a judge way up, way up on the bench, been there for a long time. And he was the guy that bought the hunt, or won it at the auction. And I was his guide, we had a great time. And we were sitting there, he'd already killed one turkey, we were changing cameras or something he made the statement to me, and we were talking about that very thing. And this was a decade ago. And he said he couldn't ever remember having a young person in his courtroom that had a hunting license. We were talking about how good it is and the outdoors and all the stuff you learn so you're actually right. The issue is how do you reach home and you know when is it too late? The National deer Association they've done a great job you know they formally QDMA but they've got a good thing going with the field to fork deal because they Oh they've they've been going to farmers markets and cooking venison and people come over there and I love this I'm no worse coming from Bob where do you hunt? And they've been actually recruiting people who you talking about a diverse lineup now and every one of them to to to the lasthave just stuck it out. You know? They weren't they weren't they weren't fearful of guns or crossbows or none of that. Their biggest issue was what to do the deer after they shot one got it down. So that's that's kind of some of the stuff they learned in the classroom. Now there's, there's, there's deer processors, you can get it out this way. Here's how you field dress it. People who who don't really think about hunting that much. They think about food a lot. So that's that's that's one great way to reach him because competition is fierce for anybody's time right now.
Keith Mark 23:15
I want to get your thoughts on a lot of topics. I want to talk to you about Hunter Nation something we're both involved, politics, which you and I have dabbled in a little bit but before we get there, I want to come back and I want to talk to you about your personal love of the WWE and what it was like to get the hunt with the you know my friend Shawn Michaels Stay tuned and we're gonna have Cuz tell some Shawn Michaels experiences when we come right back.
Right On The Mark 23:41
Our good friend Mark "Oz" Geist Benghazi, hero and decorated veteran has a new mission, and you can help him. Help him honor Americans who have served our country silently behind enemy lines as contractors, and through their heroic and courageous acts have fallen or been injured. They need our help now. Visit ShadowWarriorsProject.com that's ShadowWarriorsProject.com These heroes gave a lot the least we can do is give a little.
Keith Mark 24:18
Welcome back cuz and, you know, obviously I did the McMillan River Adventures with the WWE legend Shawn Michaels. And of course when Shawn came on the show, the title immediately changed to Shawn Michaels MacMillan River Adventures, but because he was so big and tough I mean, nobody even balked at that concept, you know, but so, Shawn and I got to hunt with you and you got to spend some time with Shawn but people ought to know it. You and your family are big WWE fans,
Cuz Strickland 24:51
Oh look man, it goes way back for me. And you know, there's people that will look at you funny when you say I love wrestling. Look, it's just like NASCAR. Everybody follows it they just may not admit it. I was a bit from a very young age. My dad spent 20 years in the Army then he was the National Guard recruiter. And his office was downtown in what we call the city auditorium, that's where they held wrestling once a month. And I was probably seven or eight years old, and I would get there early on that day, and so I could see them guys. They were all riding together in two Cadillacs and I would sell I would sell pictures up in the balcony for Pepe Perez and Danny Little Bear and people. I was fascinated with that stuff. So when it started coming on TV, man, I was absolutely hooked. First one I met and got to take hunting was Ted DiBiase. You know, the Million Dollar Man. And, you know, I never did think it was like, is this fake? Like to learn why, you know, I knew it was sports entertainment. It was to me it was just fascinating, because why don't you go to the movie, you do anything else you do it to get entertained, and the way they speak and the way they flew around, I loved it. So you know to see. And Shawn's about as big as I get. I mean, you could take the top, you know, five on your hand and name of all times he's there.
Keith Mark 26:19
Yeah,
Cuz Strickland 26:20
So when y'all when I saw y'all at that first Shot Show I think it was in Las Vegas, man, my jaw hit the ground. You went way up, oh, my cool meter, cuz you brought him in there. And I was like, Oh, my I was like a little kid. You know, and I'm sure Shawn probably thought I was goofy. But he, he gets that all the time when y'all were down here. And we left my house headed down to Bent Creek, we stopped at a Walmart for something. And, I mean, he waited up in there with me in five minutes, that I thought there's not to call the cops. It's one thing to be recognized. It's another thing to be Shawn Michaels, that that you talk about some reach man, I still love that stuff.
Keith Mark 27:04
You know, I mean, getting the chance to, you know, spend, you know, at least seven plus years doing the show with him. You know, we traveled with him, you know, stayed with him, hung out with him. And the truth is, and you know this because Shawn is, he's legit. I mean, you know, he is just a good guy. He's a great family, man. He loves the the outdoor lifestyle, the hunting lifestyle. But what I was, I guess, the happiest about because I'm like you I was always a huge fan, but to see how cool he was as a person, you know, that. Not everyone can fit that bill. But Shawn didn't he.
Cuz Strickland 27:41
He did, he was saying was so nice to us and our family. And, you know, after years and decades of doing that, you know, he's got to be tired of having this picture made and sign this and sign that and what impressed me about him away from that world was how much he wanted to learn anytime, and I'm sure you told him a lot. But anytime he was a man, he was asking, why did you do that? And you're gonna do this now, while he was a sponge. He just wanted to learn all that. And that's, that's pretty impressive.
Keith Mark 28:14
Yeah, you know, I agree. So you guys, Shawn got you guys send your grandkids tickets to an event and tell the listeners about that experience.
Cuz Strickland 28:29
This was pretty unbelievable, because he hadn't been on TV in a while. And he was gonna make an appearance on Monday night in Memphis. And he got me in Shed, Dustin Whitaker, his little boy, my two or three grandsons. He gave us all tickets ringside. And I said, of course, you don't want to go to the WWE Monday night it Yeah. Say I didn't tell him anything. I didn't you know, I knew he would be there but the matches went on and on. And then bam, his music started and I never heard a sound that loud. That place erupted I literally had to put my hands over my ears when they heard Shawn's music. And he came out, he had on a Mossy Oak cap, one of your shirts or some. And he immediatlely turned and looked right and saw us and came over and high fived all three of them kids or four of them. To me out of me. He thought to do that. In the midst of that packed auditorium with TV cameras running everywhere. And it's like, Man, that is one cool dude, them little kids after he left. They were just turning staring at their hand like this. It was amazing.
Keith Mark 29:45
Well, you know, I can tell you a true story about Shawn. So when obviously Josh who's with us here today filmed all that and so we were on the road all the time and Shawn's perfect eating day would breakfast at Waffle House. Lunch at Denny's and supper at Cracker Barrel. I mean that guy loved breakfast and really the perfect day would be Waffle House Waffle House Waffle House. But you know, Shawn, and I wouldn't have any part of that. I mean, Josh and I wouldn't have any part of that, but so then we're down at your place. And we go eat at a Waffle House. It was a Waffle House, right? Cuz
Cuz Strickland 30:26
That's it.
Keith Mark 30:27
And so we go in there and this is Shawn's, you know, dream restaurant, and they're on the wall is the Cus Strickland booth. I mean, has a plaque that says Cuz Strickland. Shawn afterwards told me he goes, you know, I've done a lot of cool things. You know, I've been on T shirts. I've been on TV I've been on billboards. I do not have my own Waffle House booth and Cuz Strickland has one. So you've got one up on you for that cuz
Cuz Strickland 30:55
Oh man, you know the guy the CEO that the Waffle House is a huge huge hunter, loves to turkey hunt and I met him within NWTF Anyway, when I started building that store there I was texting back and forth I said Look, I want to be the first customer you got to let me know and he did. As soon as they had the cutting the ribbon open that boom, I went there and sedan and they took pictures and let me tell you some that ain't the last time I've been in there. I have a simple palette and that's like one of my favorite places to eat.
Keith Mark 31:30
Can't beat it can't beat it. Well, we're running out of time Josh. And you know obviously we're gonna bring Cuz back to another episode. But you know, Mossy Oak is I mean, you know, that's just you know, Cuz likes to use the word cool. Mossy Oak is a cool company.
Josh Ishmael 31:46
Right and between their Bbiologic Food Plot Seeds, or Mossy Oak properties or Game Keepers and they're involved in every I think they have a golf course.
Cuz Strickland 31:54
Yeah. In fact, you remember we were down there when they were just finishing that golf course. And you know, Cuz quite a golfer, obviously. It's right across the street from Mississippi State, I believe.
Josh Ishmael 32:06
He said he plays old man golf. But he hits 200 yards right down the center of the fairway every single time.
Keith Mark 32:12
Well, I'm an old man, and I play golf and I don't hit anything. 200 yards, and I don't think I've ever been on the center of the fairway. And you know what Josh is like, as big of a conglomerate, that Mossy Oak is what really makes Mossy Oak to me, the family business that it is, is what they do behind the scenes. And I'm hoping that in the next episode, we're going to get Cuz to tell a little bit about the stuff that he does behind the scenes, which includes, you know, he does a lot of charity work and in other things, so hopefully we can get Cuz to talk a little bit about those things too. Here on Right On The Mark. Thanks for joining us.
Right On The Mark 32:51
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation Studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark, Episode 23, part two of two with Cuz Strickland recorded August 2021. starts.. right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hotheaded. But when it comes to all things, God, family, country and hunting, he's Keith Mark, and he's... Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:43
You know what, Josh? You know, on the last Right On The Mark, we spent a bunch of time with Cuz, and we're gonna finish that episode with Cuz coming up. I'll tell a personal story. So obviously, you know, I did the television show with Shawn Michaels for a number of years, I was already on the Outdoor Channel, but one Shot Show out in Las Vegas, which for those of you that don't know what the Shot Show is, it's kind of like the industry's trade show. It's where manufacturers and and distributors get a chance to get together and buy and sell the newest, the greatest and it also gives the show hosts an opportunity to meet all their prospective sponsors. And, you know, do business so it's a business show. So my wife Jeannie and I were at one of these Shot Shows in Las Vegas tonight. Jeannie says Keith, look over there that's Shawn Michaels and of course we were big WWE fans. Jeannie loved Shawn, I was always more of a Triple H guy but loved Shawn. No, no disrespect to Shawn but loved DX. And guess who Shawn was talking to...none other than Cuz Strickland. And so you know, I Jeannie and I walked up, waited very patiently. Of course, I knew Cuz because Mossy Oak was already a sponsor of the show. And when they finished talking, Cuz made some simple introductions for my wife and I and I told Shawn, heck, you know, I'm a big fan. And Shawn said, You know what, I'm a big fan of your show, too. I just watched you shoot a monster moose last Sunday. And you know and so then the rest is kind of history from there but it was actually Cuz Strickland that introduced Shawn and I so anyway, let's, let's get Cuz on here. Here's some hunting stories.
Right On The Mark 2:24
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation. Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values; God, family, country, conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org today
Keith Mark 2:43
All right, welcome back to Right On The Mark, Cuz we promised Cuz Strickland hunting stories and you know, I've been around many campfires with you, you've got them. So share a few if you don't mind.
Cuz Strickland 2:54
Well, you know, my favorite hunting stories very seldom if every revolve around a big deer or a big Elk or whatever it is. You know, you can get that done. It takes money and time and patience. What kind of trips my triggers is individuals and characters stuff. One of the coolest hunts I ever went on was with Gene and Barry Wensel. This was in the early 90s, they had a outfit going up on the Milk River and that was 99% you know, traditional recurve kind of bow hunters. But I went up there to film them, film Gene and Berry. I'd get to hunt with them in the mornings in a tree stand and they would make pushes down the Milk River for these guys during the day and get back on the stand with him in the afternoon. But the coolest thing that I've ever seen hunting wise because these guys, Gene and Berry were as good as it gets anyway. And one of the pushes a guy shot a deer and he hit it back or whatever. And we were by this old Suburban with Gene and Berry the guy was up in the wind and he said that deer ran into this ditch and you can see way across this bean field and he said the last time I saw him is right by that giant cottonwood. It was seven 800 yards away. So anyway, Berry said I'll just stay here kind of keep an eye out. Barry gets his bow walks the whole way all the way around and I'm looking at it through the camera. I got my big betacam zoomed all the way I'm watching this and didn't have the record button punched like an idiot. But anyway, Barry's walking. He gets to that spot. He never looks down, never looks left into that ditch and all of a sudden, you see him knocking air, wheel around, whomp... in one move motion and he 10 ringed that deer who was standing there in that that water. You know, it was hit way back but and then you know he kind of hit his head. You know, he had his head turned around. He just did like this (shrugs). And I'm like, how cool is that? I mean then those guys, if they had been born a little bit later, because they're older like me now, man, there's no telling how famous they would be but my favorite hunting story, and I'll try to make it quick was a kid named Ryan Welch and I think he was about the third or fourth kid we took for the Catch A Dream Foundation. And you know, Catch A Dream does...it's like Make A Wish but they do consumptive sports. A lot of those kids want to go on a whatever a Elk hunt or giant fishing trip and Make A Wish won't do that. Anyway, this this kid's dad had written in and this kid he was about a eight, he was eight or nine had a brain tumor, just had it removed, not in good shape. But his deal was he want to go turkey hunting with me or Will Primos and I was blown away. I was like, wow. And I went to Toxie and said, Here's what's going on. And I'm wanna I want to contact him and I want to take this kid to Texas. And you know, Ray Charles can kill a turkey in Texas, especially back then. And Toxie said, hey, make it happen. So we took we took him, Ryan, his daddy Roger and his brother Riley, who's a little bitty guy. And we took them to Texas and Ryan was not in good shape. He was he still had bandages. And he didn't have any equilibrium to amount to much. And you know, he was having trouble judging distances. Anyway. The long story short is I can't give you all the details. He we hunted for three days in the rain. And if you get rained on for three days in a row in Texas, you having some bad luck. And I can remember I'd come in after hunting all afternoon and the turkeys weren't gobbling, couldn't find him, couldn't sneak with him that well. But he would sit between my legs. And he raised that gun and freeze. I started calling him "the rock". I said, Man, you said like a rock. Well, after three days of that, you know, I was starting to where I was praying and I said God, if you give me 30 minutes of no rain, I'm gonna kill this kid a turkey. It was I started feeling like I had the flu. So basically, on the way back to the cabin, we saw the sun kinda peek through the clouds. And our land guides slammed on brakes. He said look over in that field, there's two turkeys that were strutting. And long story short, we went over... boom, he killed him a turkey and I was I haven't never felt like that... for any reason whatsoever other than it meant a lot to him. Anyway, I got to be friends with his dad and his mom, we'd email back and forth. I was always checking on him, you know, how does prognosis whatever. And about a year and a half, two years later, I get a letter from his mom. It's not an email, I'll get choked up here in a minute. But anyway, I put that letter on my desk, said I ain't opening that letter, and finally I did and what it was was a letter from her and pictures of Ryan and his baseball uniform. And he had "the rock" on the back of it back there and it was just him accepting that you know that nickname and everybody's fine. And you know, on Hunting The Country, we took him back to that same place 20 years later.
Keith Mark 8:11
Wow...
Cuz Strickland 8:12
That was a great episode you know 20 years later his little brother's like six five now but we went to the same ranch, went to the same joint eat a hamburger it was priceless. So that's kind of my favorite hunt, I love to tell people perhaps a little winded but its pretty special.
Keith Mark 8:30
You know what, Cuz that that right there in just a little microcosm is is really who you are. You are really, you're the most giving guy I've ever been around. I know you do a lot with St. Jude's. And I mean, I know you you. I mean, you are a giver. And you know, and by the way, you're telling that story, it's so meaningful to you, although you're giving the most you're getting a lot back, you know, you remember that and you tell that story. Pretty impressive, buddy.
Cuz Strickland 8:59
Well, just, you know, my favorite show on television used to come on CBS on Sunday mornings, I don't remember the name even though it was my favorite. But this guy would take a dart, he would throw it at the US map, whatever that dart hit, he would go there. Well, the closest town they would get in the phonebook and just kind of muffle it around and go... boom! He'd pick a name. And he would go to that house and sit down with those people till he found out what their story was. And it was fascinating because everybody has a story. And they do! Its just sometimes people are so caught up in themselves or their work day ot trying to do this for that they kinda overlook some of those people who have a great story. You know, I'm interested in that kind of stuff I really am and I don't know if that's something I got from my mom or dad or whatever but I you know people are interesting.
Keith Mark 9:57
Well, you know, I couldn't let you go Cuz with talking a little bit of politics and the future of hunting. So, if the folks will stick around, I want to kind of get your view on what's going on and where we need to be going. If we're going to save this great country. Stay tuned, we're going to hear some words of wisdom from Cuz Strickland.
Right On The Mark 10:17
Do you have the spirit of the wild? If so, check out TedNugent.com. For one stop shopping for concert updates, hunting opportunities with Ted's Sunrise Safaris, autographed swag, Ted's latest news, and anything Ted...visit TedNugent.com.
Keith Mark 10:36
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And you know what, Cuz I never really was much involved in politics in my life until, well, 2016. And I think you and I kind of got into this mix at the same time, because I know you and I worked on a video project that I that was extremely successful and no short short order because of you. Um, but I tell you, since then, and as we sit here in 2021, as I look at on the horizon, and.... boy, I'm just fearful for my grandkids, and then my grandkids' grandkids. I think that America really is kind of in an epic battle of good versus evil. And, you know, unfortunately, I don't think enough people are recognizing that right now.
Cuz Strickland 11:28
Oh, there's clearly good versus evil and that, you know, as you know, I pay close attention. I followed politics, probably closer than I should. I took a little break after the last election. But you know, I'm kind of right now, I think the left has gotten so insane, with some of the things thats coming out of there, that I'm kind of seeing a resurgence of I want to say conservatives, but a resurgence of smart, common sense, good people firing up, you know, of all ethnic backgrounds, genders, everything. I think people are awake, I really do Keith, I really do think some of them are waking up. Now, some of the reason they may be waking up is is, you know, podcasts like this, finding good places to get information all that. I think the younger people are more willing to do the work and I just feel like you know, I'm gonna grab my check and I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna take a break this weekend. I think some of the younger people have a little more fire in them. And I've read a news article today, a 19 year old girl running for congress somewhere in the Northeast. I'm like, How cool is that?
Keith Mark 12:47
Yeah,
Cuz Strickland 12:48
Good conservative and all that. I you know, as far as hunting, it takes people like you because even though Ted Nugent is the spokesperson, you, you kinda the lantern oil for all the Hunter Nation stuff and you keep, your your relentless. That's something I've seen out of all the successful people I've been around. They're focused, and they're relentless. And you know, God didn't give everybody that DNA. Its like I say with talent. You know, God gives it out in buckets and thimbles. I was there on thimble day.
Keith Mark 13:23
Chuckles.
Cuz Strickland 13:24
You apparently, you were there on bucket day.
Keith Mark 13:26
Yeah. Right.
Cuz Strickland 13:26
It takes people like Hunter Nation, Ted Nugent, whoever, you know, social media people. The problem with some of our influencers is they're scared to say anything because you know, they're they're and rightfully so. They may get kicked off. I kind of got kicked off Twitter. I finally close that account. That's okay. And, you know, we just got to think cooler heads, common sense heads will prevail. And the the main thing about Hunter Nation is trying to get people to vote, because you and Ted and everybody else. Donald Trump Jr.. Y'all saw the need. You knew those people there they had great patriotic ideals and character but they weren't voting.
Keith Mark 14:09
right.
Cuz Strickland 14:09
That's kinda been you alls number one thing and anything I'm doing and along with everything else to help, man that that that's kind of a that's the center of the bullseye.
Keith Mark 14:19
You know, what i what i found to be tragic in 2016 when I first met President Trump, he told me something that really startled me and it's kind of changed the redirection of my life if you will, he said, "hunters don't vote". And Cuz, you and I are a lot of like, I mean, I you know, at that time, I was spending 200, 250 nights a year around campfires with hunters and and all these folks. I mean, they believed in God, family, country loved this hunting lifestyle. They were up to date on on current issues. They felt strongly about what was right. They knew what was wrong. I just knew in my heart that when, you know, President Trump told me that it just couldn't be accurate because these people that I was talking to surely they voted those values. But you know, Cuz when we saw that data, and half of licensed hunters weren't voting, and a third of those didn't even have a tag to vote, meaning they weren't even registered. That's when I said, I've got to do something about this. Because if you think about it, Cuz 16 million armed hunters is truly the largest standing army in the world. And these are people that believe like you and I do God, family, country. And in my soul, I knew if I could just get these people to participate, I didn't have to tell them who to vote for, the answer would be crystal clear to them. Because if you check the boxes, where does the candidate stand on God, family, country, are hunting lifestyle, the contrast now is so clear, I don't need to tell these hunters who to vote for they will run to go vote for them. And so that's how really Hunter Nation, you know, came to be. And then of course, guys, like you jumped in with both feet willing to help Donald Trump Jr. and now we've got this great President/CEO, Luke Hilgemann. But you know what, Cuz you've been around a little bit longer than what I have. And I've said this for years, the years the anti hunters are not going to destroy hunting, it's going to be hunters that destroy it ourselves, either through apathy, just sitting back letting things happen, we don't really take an active role, or this infighting. You know, you use a compound..well, I'm a traditional hunter, you're no good or you shot a little deer, you shot a pin deer, you, we always find ways to separate ourselves. And again, with Hunter Nation, in fact, one of the first things that came to my mind, and I'm gonna ask you figure out how we get this done. Cuz, in my mind, when I was formulating this, I could see Toxie and I could see Bill Jordan. And I could see Kevin Pritchard from Kings, and, and you know, all the different camo manufacturers standing around a campfire in their own brand, arguing about who has the best camo and why we're better, and so on and so forth. And then it's like, they all realize the cameras on them. And they say, Hey, we may disagree, who has the best camo. But we are all truly part of one Hunter Nation. And in my mind, if I could create that kind of unity within the the industry, that the message would get right down to the rank and file hunters, and we'd have an army, that would be a force to reckon with, what's your thoughts on that, Cuz?
Cuz Strickland 17:40
It's an awesome idea. And I don't know if you saw it, but David Blanton, you know, who's at Realtree, has been at Realtree forever. He and I did a commercial together for the Treestand Manufacturers Association. It was awesome. And it was like I was I was in my treestand. He was in his and we were saying something about this one, I'd say and we're at the end, we both said the exact same line, at the exact same time, you know, it ain't about, you know, what you wearing, it's about the safety harness. It was a great spot. So that's a good idea. The issue is, what I think has happened is all those hunters, those, you know, half of 16 million, they've had so good and so easy. And it's been just, you know, a hunters dream to live in this country. And I don't think, you know, they've been spurred on by whatever to, you know, go vote. I can't fathom not going to vote. I like I say I grew up in a military household and I know what it means to go vote. I know what that... what I mean, people have fought and died for the right to go vote and to not do it.. is just puzzling to me. And how do you reach him? I don't know. You know, between you and Ted and Michael and everybody else y'all are reaching a lot. I don't know if you can make them go vote. I think the Left's gonna do a better job than we ever thought we could. Because the longer it rides on, the crazier it gets. And I think some people are sitting up. But uh, you know, buying time very thankful for people like you and, and Ted and the Hunter Nation. To remind people, hey, you got to do it with you vote.
Keith Mark 19:25
Yeah, you know, and those of you that are listening, if you don't know what Hunter Nation is all about, please go to HunterNation.org Hunter nation.org and just check it out. They're doing some amazing things, some of the fights that they've been involved in. One, a legislative started in the courts and then ended up in the legislature, a hunting season for wolves in Wisconsin. We fought to get disabled hunters, disabled veterans the right to hunt with a crossbow in Montana. We're in the middle of all kinds of fights right now regarding Sunday hunting and predator bans, hunting bans, and so on and so forth. I mean, this is the group, honest to goodness, that's on the front lines, making sure we protect hunters' rights? HunterNation.org check it out. Cuz you know what, you have a large platform. And in closing, if all of those 16 million hunters could hear what you say next, what would you tell them? How would you explain to them it's important that they become part of Hunter Nation to hear, get their voice heard. I mean, why is it important, now more than ever?
Cuz Strickland 20:33
Well, it's, you kinda touched on it a while ago. I tell people all the time, I don't care if you're using a recurve, or compound, bow, a axe or a rock, if you buy a hunting license, then you're on my team. And the fact that you're on that team with me means we're brothers and sisters, we got to do this together. But we can't just sit back and assume people like Keith Mark, and Ted Nugent, and them are gonna take care of us, we got to do it for ourselves. If nothing else, set a good example for your children, and show them how important it is to vote. And how important it is to vote your heart and your morals and your principles and your character. Because I'm telling you kids learn by watching. It's not a bunch of defining moments and seminars and all that. Kids learn to...how to behave by watching who's around and they're little sponges. So, you know, the least you can do start with the right to vote is like number one, go to church. Love your Momma and Daddy. Go vote. So, we got to do it, that's the only waywe're gonna change anything.
Keith Mark 21:46
Cuz, you know, I love you, brother. I mean, you are an incredible ambassador for hunting. You're a great example for anybody, man, woman and child that you know, wants to learn about hunting or just learn about life. Learn how to be a better person. You're a wonderful guy, Cuz and I'm honored, honestly, that you joined us here on Right On The Mark. And I want to thank you.
Cuz Strickland 22:08
Well, you know, I'm a big fan. I've always been a fan of yours. Because, you know, back in the day, when you were just rolling out there, people are talking about who's that guy, he does this and all that. And I spent three minutes with you. And so that's a cool dude right there. And I've been, I've been right in your corner ever since then. Hey, like I said, everybody's got a story. And yours is just fascinating. You just don't beat your chest enogh. I'm gonna have to teach you how to do that at some point. But thank you, thank you for having me on here. I'll be glad to come back anytime and, and to be a small, small warrior for what you got going on. It's impressive.
Keith Mark 22:44
Cuz, cus Godspeed. Thank you. Thanks again. appreciate you joining us.
Cuz Strickland 22:49
Thank you, brother.
Right On The Mark 22:49
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Colt still making history. Pistols, rifles, revolvers. Find the right Colt for you today by visiting Colt.com.
Keith Mark 23:03
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. What an episode. I mean, honestly, I wish I could just have Cuz on every week. I mean, there is really nobody else I'd rather sit and talk hunting to than Cuz Strickland. I mean, he's got so many stories. And you know what, Josh, the thing about Cuz is, and you know, this, he is exactly the same whether we're sitting on lawn chairs in front of his house or sitting in the booth at the Waffle House, or, you know, talking on a podcast. I mean, he is the real deal.
Josh Ishmael 23:32
He's the man's man for sure, too. And I mean, think of the stories that he's forgotten that we would just be in awe of just to hear.
Keith Mark 23:40
I mean, you know, when we went down and did that turkey out with him, we show up down there. He's got all kinds of gear for us. And I mean, you know, he just treated us like we were like, really something and I thought my gosh, Cuz really thinks I'm something. And then I see how Cuz treated everyone. And he treats everyone like they're something you know, and there's something to be said for that. And I think he said the best line at the end when he said, you know, just be a better example. People, kids expecially learned from watching. That's why being a good role model as a dad or a mom or a sister or a brother or an aunt or an uncle, a television show host or whatever you might be. I mean, just know that there's somebody out there watching. And if you're, you know, a good role model, you may change somebody's life. I mean, I think he's right about that. And those of you that are listening to Right On The Mark this week, please check out Cuz Strickland's own podcast, "A Fistful Of Dirt. I mean, he has, I mean, some of the greatest guests out there, but more importantly, every week it's Cuz Strickland. You get to hear Cuz talk about hunting, you get to hear Cuz talk about politics, you get out hear Cuz talk about the things that are going on right now. Kind of what I'm trying to do here, you know, only over there Cuz Strickland. So, I hope you enjoyed our little chat with Cuz Strickland. And if you do, subscribe, like our channel and write in and say, Hey, bring Cuz back and I'll send every one of them to him. And hopefully we'll have him back here on Right On The Mark. Thanks for joining us.
Right On The Mark 25:18
Right On The Mark invites you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation Studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Episode 20 & 21 featuring Chad Belding
Episode 20 &21 - Two episodes with Chad Belding- Host of “The Fowl Life” on Outdoor Channel
This episode starts with a tornado warning siren blaring in the background as host, Keith Mark welcomes Chad Belding to the show and they share a warning of their own for the American hunter. Along with discussing problems facing hunters today, these two share hunting stories and great times with friends and family. Chad is best known for his expertise in all things waterfowl, and he shares some of his tricks of his success.
Chad explains how he went from owning a portable toilet business to founding and growing brand of outdoor products, Banded in 2008. From modest beginnings as a t-shirt business, to his own line of duck calls to over 4,000 product SKUs in the Banded brands family of products.
Episode 20 &21 - Two episodes with Chad Belding- Host of “The Fowl Life” on Outdoor Channel
This episode starts with a tornado warning siren blaring in the background as host, Keith Mark welcomes Chad Belding to the show and they share a warning of their own for the American hunter. Along with discussing problems facing hunters today, these two share hunting stories and great times with friends and family. Chad is best known for his expertise in all things waterfowl, and he shares some of his tricks of his success.
Chad explains how he went from owning a portable toilet business to founding and growing brand of outdoor products, Banded in 2008. From modest beginnings as a t-shirt business, to his own line of duck calls to over 4,000 product SKUs in the Banded brands family of products.
Chad’s genuine humility comes through as he shares hunting stories starting as the “funny guy” to becoming one of the faces of waterfowl hunting. His reputation as someone who helps others improve their skills and results. He recounts stories of hunting with first responders and veterans that inspire him to continue to strive to be better. His dedication to hunting has led him to support Hunter Nation and their efforts to bring unity to the sport.
The show concludes with a hint of what the next episode holds as Chad tells a story of hunting with one of Keith’s favorite baseball players of all time, George Brett.
New “Provider” digital TV series, drill down on the food side of hunting: field to fork, butchering, prepping, seasoning, cookbook.
Chad reflects on growing up watching Keith and Shawn Michaels on MacMillan River Adventures and how inspired he was. He also shares a recent phone conversation he had with Ted Nugent thanks to an introduction by Keith and how he feels so privileged to be
Co-host, Josh Ishmael gets Chad to share some of his greatest tips to improve your waterfowl hunting success and getting the best flavor from your harvests.
Chad also explains why he is so concerned about anti-hunting groups and people who oppose traditional American values. He explains why he joined Hunter Nation and feels it so important for every hunter to join and get involved by registering to vote and voting.
He emphasizes that hunting is still a privilege and, right or wrong, it can be taken away and that the youngsters are the future and we must engage and inspire them.
The episode wraps up with Keith shamelessly asking for an introduction to George Brett and Chad’s promise to make it happen along with a great story of how generous George is with his time and talents.
Guest Links:
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation - HunterNation.org
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 20, recorded August 2021, featuring Chad Belding. Part One of two starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters' lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hotheaded. But when it comes to all things God, family, country and hunting, he's Keith Mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:43
I'm Keith Mark, and I want to welcome you to another Right On The Mark podcast. And you know, I'm actually pretty excited about this episode. I get excited for every episode, really. But today, our guest is Chad Belding and Chad, if it has to do with waterfowl, Josh, he's got his finger in it. I mean, he's got an incredible television show, "Fowl Life" on Outdoor Channel. He does a very entertaining podcast in his own right that "This Life Ain't For Everyone". But he's involved in a lot of different waterfowl companies and you know, Josh, you grew up and actually still growing up in Kansas, which you know, I'm still growing up here in Kansas, but you know, the staple or staples of our hunting upbringing started with upland game, you know, pheasants quail, some Prairie Chicken hunting as a boy and then we were brought into deer hunting, turkey hunting and right from the start waterfowl.
Josh Ishmael 1:40
Uh hum and you and I have actually waterfowl hunted together and we filmed many a McMillan River Adventures off of 2440 in Basehor, Kansas.
Keith Mark 1:48
Hey, listen, right in Basehor, Kansas is great hunting. As you know, we got turkey hunting right there. We got deer hunting right there. I've killed quail, you know, right there. And then of course you and your dad and I've just slammed ducks and geese like right across the street from my farm.
Josh Ishmael 2:05
And the great thing about waterfowl is anyone can do it. Kids can do it. I remember sitting down at Marais Des Cygnes sitting there as a seven year old with a little shaker call just sitting there shaking it. And now as a parent myself, I mean the patience
Keith Mark 2:18
Yeah,
Josh Ishmael 2:18
I thought my dad didn't have. He definitely had.
Keith Mark 2:21
I gotta tell you somthing, Josh. And I want to hear Chad talk about all this waterfowl experience that he has, and give us some tips and maybe give us some ideas on some new products that are out there. But Chad is friends with George Brett. Did you know that?
Josh Ishmael 2:36
I did, uh huh.
Keith Mark 2:37
You know I mean growing up here in Kansas City. I mean, George Brett is my all time favorite baseball player. And so I don't know what we can dangle over his head as a carrot. But if there's any way that he can get George Brett on our podcast, or Hey, just have George, Brett, meet me and you for lunch sometimes
Josh Ishmael 2:55
He's a huge hunter. George Brett is a huge hunter.
Keith Mark 2:55
I get it. And he's a big golf for which of course I am a golfer, you're a big golfer, you're not ao
Josh Ishmael 2:57
I'm a large golfer.
Keith Mark 3:01
Your a large guy, large golfer. That's what I was gonna say. But, you know, let's work on that. So just we don't want to lead with that. But let's subltly...
Josh Ishmael 3:12
So, real quick. What is your favorite George Brett story because I think I know what it is. And I want you to tell it on air.
Keith Mark 3:19
Well, I have two favorite George Brett stories. Of course, the homerun that he hit off Goose Gossage, you know. I could add a third too, when he got his average up to 400 that day, and he stood on second base with his batting helmet raised. But you know, the pine tar incident's pretty good. But post playing play. There's a great video on the internet, where George was actually in the Royals spring training camp as a coach. And I don't know any better way to say it, but he tells a story about pooping his pants how's that for politeness you got to go online because it's just so funny to hear George discuss it.
Josh Ishmael 4:02
All the things that he did on the field?
Keith Mark 4:04
Yes,
Josh Ishmael 4:05
It's all trumped by that.
Keith Mark 4:07
Well, let'sjust say this. George doesn't do anything without full gusto.
Josh Ishmael 4:12
Right.
Keith Mark 4:12
Hey, stay tuned. We're gonna have Chad belding on here in just a second. Talking about waterfowl and everything under the sun. Stay tuned.
Right On The Mark 4:22
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation. Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values God, family, country, conservation and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org today.
Keith Mark 4:40
Chad, welcome to Hunter Nation, Right On The Mark podcast. Do you hear that siren in the background? That is a warning to all American hunters that our lifestyle is under attack right at this exact moment. What are your what's your recommendation?
Chad Belding 4:58
Got to get involved man. We got to go start flying this flag and do it the right way Hunter Nations a great platform for that. Keith, I appreciate you having me on and to hear that air raid siren. All I can think about is what you say is exactly the truth. I mean, they don't want us doing this. They don't understand it. They're not educated on it. The antis you're trying to do whatever. They had started small and then it snowballs builds momentum. And I think California is a great state to look at with the ammo laws, the bear hunting laws, the mountain lion and Cougar hunt laws. And it's not stopping there. Newsome in his in his uh, his liberal, you know, followers are trying to do whatever it takes to take hunting out of really one of the biggest states in the country, if not the biggest. I looked at California as an example of everything spreading eastward and I love what you're doing and your guys's efforts is just not go unbridled by myself or our crew, and we truly appreciate it.
Keith Mark 5:46
You know, what, Chad man, and I've said this for a number of years. And we actually started during this air raid siren test, it's going off in the background, our producer was like, "No, no, they're gonaa hear it." No, really, Chad, I want them to hear it. Because this is symbolic of exactly what's going on in this country. And what I don't understand is how can it be that such a great group of human beings as the American hunter, men, women, young and old, that just don't participate in the voting process. Wherein, that's how we elect our paid employees that are supposed to be looking out after our interests. And if hunters aren't voting, then hunters have no say in what those politicians ultimately do. And here you go, then you get what's going on in California. What goes on in New York. And these use this dreaded word, these liberals that would like to destroy our hunting lifestyle, and really, Chad, it's bigger than that. It's all traditional American values, God, family, country, the 10 Commandments, the Bill of Rights and all those things that that that we love about this great America, they're eventually going to try to shrink it down. And if this warning isn't heeded by the American hunter, well, I mean, hate to say it is they get what they deserve. Imagine if the early patriots, they all sat in that tavern, hey, the British are coming to take our guns. They've overtaxed us, they're not representing this, we're gonna meet them at the bridge of Concord. And we're going to start, what we're going to call an experiment in self government. So four or five, you and me and our ancestors get to the bridge at Concord. And there's three people behind us...ah, we're still we're still speaking with a British accent, buddy. I don't know, how do we wake these people up?
Chad Belding 7:41
I think there's a big difference. But you know, its an assumption that the right to bear arms and our Second Amendment that's written into our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, is the same as it is for hunting and the conservation and the outdoors. And it's not. This is a privilege that we actually get to hunt. And the confusion lies to where well, we have the right to hunt. And it's not the case. And I think that through COVID, and through the aftermath of COVID, that whatever your political views are and why that happened and why it continues to happen. We can't get ammo. Guns are hard to get right now. States were on lockdown for non residents to come in and hunt turkeys. We just now got word that with vaccination, you can cross the Canadian border that we've you know, I did 19 years in a row from 2000 to 2019 and haven't gone in 2021. But I think that slowly but surely, you're starting to see the hunters and conservationists and the efforts that we worked so hard with elbow you know, sweat equity and elbow grease is being lost little by little. The ammo laws in California, the background checks to go into a retailer like Bass Pro or Sportsman's Warehouse or a mom and pop independent and buy a box of ammo, they can prevent you from doing that in certain capacity. So I think that there's a confusion there. That we need to understand that we do have the right to bear arms and we need to be part of the NRA. And but we also have to understand that that doesn't mean we have the right to hunt and I it can be taken away and as hunters and what Hunter Nation stands for. That's why we're so proud of it is that, we are fighting to keep that heritage alive this culture and the lifestyle of the American hunter conservationist, fisher, provider and we need to come together. We need to lose the egos and we need to support each other no matter if you archery or crossbow or traditional or shotgun or rifle or whatever it is as long as it's ethical and as long as it's legal, let's come together and vote and go out and make sure that we have the right people in office to protect this heritage and this privilege. That's the way I look at it Keith.
Keith Mark 9:39
Well you're spot on and those of you that are listening if you haven't joined, please go to HunterNation.org and just check it out. When you listen to guys like Chad Belding, hey, I'm Keith Mark, I'm just Keith Mark but when you hear guys like Chad Belding speaking just truth bomb after truth bomb like that and you don't check out HunterNation.org ...I don't get it. So please do it. And you know that air raid siren Chad kind of put me further down the track. I didn't want to get into the politics of it so early in the conversation with you, and I am going to circle back to some politics with you. But you know, what I want to do is I just want to start off with you know, I watched you on television, I listened to your podcast, I've seen you for decades. As a true Hunter, an ambassador of hunting, how in the world did you get a start that's led you to where you are? How'd you get into hunting? And then eventually, I'm gonna want you to tell me some great hunting stories, but just tell me about your background that led you to where you are in the hunting world.
Chad Belding 10:37
I'm from Northern Nevada Keith and growing up it was following dad in the mountains chasing a mulel deer, antelope, chucker Partridge occasionally. It's like a high desert state. Not a lot of waterfowl. We're definitely not known for waterfowl. We're in the Pacific Flyway. We do have some marshland around here that can be good. But I didn't, I went on my first duck and goose hunt, the real one, when I was about 19, with my uncle, and then when I was 27. I went on my first duck hunt overwater and it was a guy named Jim Ray, some gadwalls went over our head, and he hit him with this call I man. And I was I saw these gadwall turn I didn't even know they were gadwall at the time, I know what grey ducks are now. And they turn and settled up and cupped up and just feet down in the decoys and I was like... this is me and I literally remember going to get Mossberg 835 Ultra mag and some Winchester expert ammo and and the Columbia jacket and old school cammo then thinking I was ready then from that my I think that my competitiveness and my passion for life and I was D1 baseball player in college and I wasn't good enough to go to the next level of minor league or pro ball. And I just had that competitive edge to where I saw that there was an opportunity to to start duck and goose calling competitively and I picked up a call and I picked up a short reed goose call and I would call Tim Grounds, rest in peace Tim, and I'd call Fred Zink, and I would call Phil Robertson, The Duck Commander. I remember Phil and Jase back before Duck Dynasty and back before they were world famous he he'd be like, "Hey, Beldin, how's the ducks in the desert?", you know, and he would just talk to me for ever and just give me hints on how to... my air pressure, my mouth cavity and Fred Zink would teach me how to blow short reed goose call and Tim Grounds. And I just kept going and mopped up all the time. I think I won maybe four contests in 10 years. But I saw the network I saw the group of people that I wanted to be involved in. So that traveling led me to meeting guys at Avery Outdoors and becoming you know, going to Memphis a bunch and meeting Fred Zink and in person and my personality and his matched up he started putting me on his DVDs DVD series called 24/7. And then I got invited by Ducks Unlimited to film some of their TV shows. And then it was a it was Justin Tackett with DU Waterdog on the Versus network. He asked me to take him on a West Coast swing with his partner Shannon Narty who produced the show. I took him to Idaho, I took him to Nevada and Southern Oregon. And we had a blast and that production company out of Tulsa, Oklahoma called me about a month after they left and asked me if I'd be interested in doing a show around my personality, my life. I said Heck yeah. And at the time, Keith, I was I was in business. I had a portable toilet company. I was a toilet pumper. I had a stormwater pollution company doing, you know sweps, and erose control. I had a street sweeping company. So I was more into the construction side of things and construction site services, which allowed me to hunt in the fall because it would slow down. And I said Heck yeah. Let's try it. So one thing leads to another that that guy's mom ends up getting sick, the owner of Divine Productions in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and he tells me I can't move on. I can't go in with finances or time my mom's sick. I hope you understand. I said, Mike, I completely understand. Do you mind if I try this on my own? And he said, Please do. And I was in my toilet office, Keith and I lean back and I had this big mount and it's nine green heads coming through flooded Arkansas timber, and they're all banded and I have a no trespassing sign that rednecks would shoot up in the south its on a tree. And then there's a plaque on the front of the it's a pedestal mount and it says, "Strike Up The Band". And I looked at that mount and I said I'm going to try to name a company "Banded" and I called my intellectual property attorney right there and his name is Brian Hardy in Las Vegas. I said I know I'm not going to get this but I want to try to register and trademark "Banded", B.A.N.D.E.D., synonymous with waterfowl, the federal government banning initiatives and everything we're probably not going to get it. And we got it and I was like are you kidding me? So in 2008 I started Banded Productions that we went to we went to air in the fall of 2009 with The Fowl Life and their original name Keith It was funny to me I was gonna name it Doctor Duck which there is a company out there called that now but I was going to write a prescription for success every week and I was like, man, I don't even know i'm not i'm not that, I'm not Phil I'm not somebody that's got enough credibility to tell people How to hunt or how to be successful. So we ended up going with.. Paris Hilton and Lionel Richie daughter had a show called "The Simple Life" that was real popular at the time. And I said, and I didn't watch it, it was just being thrown around all the time in media. And I said, I'm gonna name this show, "The Foul Life". So we go to air and the fall of 2009 was season one. And it was the first two episodes Keith that BAM people are inundating us with emails.... What color you blow? What what what boat are you riding? What UTV Are you in? What gun are you using? And I thought, Man, the money's in product manufacturing. So that turned into bandit gear, UFC was popular, Tap Out was popular. I want to go full frontal, in your face designs. My first design was two geese talking smack back and forth. And my favorite band is Guns and Roses and they had a song called, "Double Talkin Jive". So I named that T shirt, "Double Cluck and Jive". And I wore it on "The Foul Life" and bam. People are like, I want that shirt. I was like You got to be kidding me. So then John O'Rourke, he is the National hunting buyer at Cabela's. in Sidney, before Cabela's did the transition. He goes, we want that shirt. We wanted in here. So then we designed the next one called Red Dawn, and it was mallards flying over sun. And then I said I'm going into the calling business. I talked to Fred Zink and said, Hey, I'm going to start Banded Calls and Cabela's put them in, and then other retailers started putting them in. So in 2011, I'll end it, I'm long winded, I'm sorry, but we're at Shot Show. I'm doing an appearance and I get my buddy Christian runs up to me says we need to talk. I said what's up he says I just met with John O'Rourke, the hunting buyer at Cabella's, same guy. He says Belding's onto something with this name Banded but it's bigger than a duck call or a T shirt. And that's when we went started seeking capital and Banded turned into what it is now. Over 4000 SKUs of we know we have the number one hunting waders sold in America now. We've we got bags and gun cases. We in 2015, the company that I cut my teeth with Avery Outdoors in Memphis, we purchased them we bought Avery, Avery Sporting Dog and their sister company Greenhead Gear decoys and that's all under the Banded umbrella now. So that's how it started. The Foul Life was Banded Productions went to Banded Gear, Banded Calls, and now it's turned into Banded Brands. And you know, the rest is kind of history. We're getting ready to start filming season 14 of Benneli's, "The Foul Life" and it's freaking been a wild ride and I you know, you know, you hear people say it's humbled me a bunch, I want to keep humility and I want to always be humble, but man, it's just like every time I go out and meet people like you see somewhere like Stuttgard or Boise, Idaho or Fargo, North Dakota, I'm just blown away that that we get to do this for a living and you got to pinch yourself sometimes.
Keith Mark 17:33
Wow, what what I mean, what a great story. And I know Chad, that you have some incredible hunting stories in their own rights. So we're gonna come back after this quick break, and you're going to tell hunting stories, but I am going to eventually make it talk about George Brett. I love George Brett. So if you're listening, stay tuned. We've got some stories coming up with Chad Belding
Right On The Mark 17:56
Do you have the spirit of the wild? If so check out TedNugent.com. for one stop shopping for concert updates, hunting opportunities with Ted's Sunrise Safaris, autographed swag, Ted's latest news and anything Ted? Visit TedNugent.com.
Keith Mark 18:15
Wow. You know what Chad, I mean, that is an incredible story of how you went from, you know, a couple gadwalls locking up and coming into your set to really being involved in anything and everything. That's waterfowl in America right now.
Josh Ishmael 18:29
And yeah, I arrived. I grew up watching you on the 24/7 DVDs. And you were you were the funny guy. You were the guy that was kind of in the background, as you are always cutting up and then making jokes. And I was like man, that dude always had a good personality, but I had no idea who you were and then all sudden you came out as Chad Belding and then it's kind of history. It's It's awesome to see you kind of as the back guy. And now you're kind of the face of waterfowl almost. And now, one more side personal note, Fred Zink best guy ever. And so when I hear that he, I met him at trade shows a long time ago, and I'm an absolute nobody, but he remembered my name every single time he sees you. And I think he's with that like just with everybody, but to hear that he went and you're now a competition for him. And he helped you get into these places. Like, how cool is that... people helping people in the industry instead of like everybody else on social media, kicking each other's nuts pretty much all the time for shooting a small deer or whatever. And in the industry, people are actually helping people to help them grow and move forward instead of trying to cut their legs out from underneath them.
Chad Belding 19:30
Yeah, I think Fred, he.. like he talked about him and what he meant to me and still does as a friend. He's coming on my podcast on the 16th of this month to do a Wild Fowl magazine edition. He taught me how to hunt. Like he taught me how to hide he taught me how to call Canada geese. He taught me how to set decoys. Fred is the guy is an absolute nerd and genius when it comes to the physical makeup of ducks and geese and the vocalizations and the jargon if you will. And he did he put me on that DVD series. And if you remember I did the shopping cart and the dancing in the decoys bit and that scene right there led to "The Foul Life". That's what the prod the production company, Divine Productions said. We want more of that they were up there filming that. We were with Josh Noble who was the national buyer for Sportsman's Warehouse at the time. And if you remember, I was.... anyway. To hear you pay homage to Fred, Ohio, Port Clinton, he's the he's the best in the industry. He's deserves every bit of his success and for the way he supported us and still supports us he's a he's an amazing individual and his wife Dawn and his entire family are just awesome people.
Keith Mark 20:38
You know, one of my favorite things about hunting... besides hunting... is the storytelling. You know around the campfires and you know, around the watercooler even just guys telling hunting stories and you know, I know you've got a bunch of them and I guarantee Chad, there's people right now listening sitting on the edge of their chair saying man I hope Chad tells some hunting stories so cut loose but let's hear some of your some of your hunting stories.
Chad Belding 21:05
Well, one that comes to mind a bunch you know that.... that shows you how small you really are. When you when you start to get ahead of yourself, you know, you start to think man I'm really am something and I admit I'm self admittedly that that one time in this career you like man, I'm with Kid Rock or I'm with George Brett, and it really doesn't matter. We're all just people with different skill sets. And what taught me this big time, his hunting, Keith, is being around military and first responders and the humility and the therapy that the duck blind or goose blind or just being on American soil with their boots, again provided for them injured, injured veterans, active duty Special Forces, it didn't matter. There was not one bit of ego and I remember being in North Dakota, and one of our partners....is the great Phil How in Laramie, Wyoming now, builds some he built some awesome sites. And he had this guy named Scott Skeeter, who he wanted me to meet. And the sweetest guy tall, good looking. And you just want to hit this guy because he's like the perfect specimen of an American male. And I'm like, Good night, if you look at this frickin stud. And he comes into camp, and he's soft spoken. And he's like, hey, I want to learn how to do this. And he's just he's joking around. He's cutting up. He's fun loving. So we get into the weeds about who this man is. And I started to see like, Man, look at this guy's discipline, look at how cordial he is. Look at his manners. And look at how he talks to me when we're in the blind and asking me like pretty much asking me if he can talk. And I'm like, something's up. So I go on to learn from this guy. After we shoot geese, and they're coming into this fog storm, and you would hear him or you hear a wing beat, they would approach quiet or you hear one is to go, and I just get on the call,.... or work and they would come in descend down through the fog. And I remember looking at this guy, and his eyes were as big as globes and he's just like, you've got to be kidding me. This is unbelievable. Like, we're there like eight feet, maybe eight yards, 24 feet. And we're just having a blast. And I go on to learn that you don't ever like to talk about how far somebody gets in the military, but he's as high as you can get in the army in Special Forces. He took a bullet through his left pec through his latt out his latt through his left bicep and blew his bicep tendon out. He's got the scars in there he was in enemy fire in Afghanistan. He talked to me about the story. Tears are rolling down my face about what he went through after the injury of laying in a goat pen and putting on ....taking off... cutting off the leg of his pants and making a tourniquet and having to stuff some more in his mouth so nobody can hear him breathing or whimpering and covering the goats mouth with his hand because the goats were going nuts because they knew he was in there. And maybe they smelled his blood or whatever. And he survived it. And then he looks at me and says, I just wish I could go back. I wish I was still with my brothers and sisters. And the geese are pouring in on us at the same time. And I'm sitting there going ...what the freak man like Why? Why is this that? I've never even considered going into the military. I got tears rolling down my face about this guy's story and how prideful it is. And never one time Did he bring it up. I had to prod this stuff out this man. And I just thought like, Wow, what a way to live your life that you took a bullet for our freedoms. We're laying here in these lay down blinds in this cornfield in North Dakota, South Dakota is one of those in a fog, killing Canada geese like it's going out of style. because of people like you that give us our freedom. So hunting to me because of hunting with three and four star admirals and hunting with guys like we talked about prior to this... John Shaw at MidSouth and Shaw Shooting and his son, Houston or Scott Steerd and I've hunted with many SEALs Keith and it's and I know you have to and it's not rah rah it's holy shit like it this is this is life like looking at what we get to do because of our military and we take it for granted. I'm telling you we take this life for granted because a week later I'm in Stuttgard, Arkansas and the freakin mallards are pouring through trees at Prairie Wings Duck clubs with my best friend in the world, Brandon Adams who has pretty much saved Banded and at one point when we were in financial detriment, and I'm looking at.... I'm looking at Brandon, Brandon Adams. And then I turned my left and there's Zach Brown. And Zach is holding a Benelli and his eyes are to the sky. He's wearing my waders, waders that our brand... Christian and Eric and Banded, developed and everybody I'm sitting here going military, chicken fried, and then he's picking the guitar with his bass player, Matt Mangano that night around the fire, and I'm sitting there going, what's going on, man? Like this is like it's not it's not anything except hunting. It's the mallard duck. It's Mother Nature its respect for the resource and compassion for the animals. And every single one of these people and you know, tons. I'm not telling you anything you don't know. Keith Mark, you know, damn well, how humble how humbling this lifestyle really can be and puts you to your knees, and I watched Zach, like light up. This guy has sold out Fenway Park three nights in a row holds the American record. 47,000 people a night three nights in a row, sold out. Guns and Roses, sold it out the night before last. He sold it out three nights in a row and he's sitting there telling me you don't want to learn how to blow that duck call.
Keith Mark 26:20
Yup
Chad Belding 26:20
I'm sitting there going? What's going on man? So I think hunting hunting stories you've mentioned George Brett, I remember sitting in,I was in Missouri Valley, Iowa on I 29. Hunting mallards again just chasing mallards love chasing mallards, we were doing a benefit up there for a farming family that had lost their son in a head-on farming accident on a dirt road and he was the stud wrestler at the local high school and here comes a picture into my phone and it's George Brett holding a greenhead saying hey I'm in Stuttgard you know this guy and he's pointing to my buddy that he's with in the blind and I'm just like we're raising money for a family buy a new wrestling mat for the school you know doing our best to do it with this benefit. And then George Brett from the Kansas City Royals three time you know three times batting title in three different decades Keith it'll never be done it again. 70s 80s and 90s Silver Slugger awards the pine tar it so they gave or Perry tried to hold him back everything that he did in the 85 championship all the Golden Gloves it's freaking George Brett 20 years with the same organization and he's texted me a picture of a of a greenhead Mallard in Arkansas. This life is amazing man. It's let's it's just blows my mind. You know
Keith Mark 27:28
hump hunting is the ultimate equalizer. It doesn't matter if he if you've written the greatest piano concertos, or Ted Nugent writing great guitar riffs or George bread hitting many homeruns I mean, when you're sitting down in a blind or you're up in a tree stand, it's you, your bow, your gun, whatever you have the animals Mother Nature, and we're all the same. And I think too, you know one of the things that I've found true and hunting with the Jeff Foxworthy is in the new Jensen the Donald Trump juniors of the world that the true hunters out there they are are humbled by this renewable resource that God has given us when when Foxworthy shot his moose up with me. He literally dropped to his knees Chad with tears in his eyes, and gave thanks just that he had the opportunity to do it. And when it arrived, that he was mad enough to actually do it. And you know, and this goes from the Foxworthy is to so many different people that you and I've hunted with, you know, just just our buddies from growing up, or the guy that does this or that just the average rank and file American. We're all the same around a campfire, we're all the same in a deer stand. We're all the same in a duck line. And that's really the beauty of this lifestyle.
Chad Belding 28:53
Yeah, he couldn't say it any better. And I just I just think back you know, if my dad and my grandpa and for us to think that we achieved something because we've mastered a call or a bow, it's just, it's almost so gratifying to look back at the black and white pictures and know that this has been going on forever. And we will I don't want to keep it going on. I want to keep I want to see my daughter she shot her first Canvas back two years ago and went under Duncan's last year. I wanted to keep seeing that and when you start talking about guys like you know blue collar comedy Jeff Foxworthy, one of the funniest guys ever put on Earth, crying because of sustainability and and what happens to the soul. When you become one and so close to that animal, we understand that we are taking some out of the ecosystem, but to get that compassionate about it and that animal given up its life to feed Jeff's family and friends. It blows my mind to have that mentality and I want to stress the mentality of being a provider and learning what sustainability is and farming and ranching. Conservation and habitat and how it all goes together and and hunters are the ultimate conservation is so to educate people on what guys like you and your and Jeff Foxworthy and your circle do to provide that moose the opportunity to live the great life that he and his his family got to live. It's a it's a mentality that you have to hold is precious and understand that without hunters, there's going to be something very detrimental that happens to these animals in the resource. And I really want people to understand that hunters are working relentlessly with conservation groups to make sure that these animals thrive. And yes, there are some taking out of the ecosystem, as we all know, but come on, that's what it's for. That's what they're put on earth for, in my opinion. And as long as we hold that flag the right way and feed our families this substance, then I I'm going to fight for until the day I die, because there's no better feeling in the world than beyond your knees next to a moose, knowing what that tenderloin and backstrap is going to taste like than what you just went through to hone your skill set to get to that point. And I know I'm unapologetic about it. Keith, I don't make any excuses for it. And I love stories like that,
Keith Mark 31:08
you know, I want everyone to stick around. Those are very powerful words from Chad belding. When we come back, I'm gonna have Chad talk a little bit about his television show and his podcast and how important it is that we just keep getting programming and content like this out for people to watch and learn from. So stay tuned Right On The Mark. Come back again next week. And we'll have some more Chad bell.
Right On The Mark 31:32
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of bow and arrow productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions Copyright 2021
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark, Episode 21 featuring Chad Belding, recorded August 2021. Part Two of two starts now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:44
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And we're with the one and only Chad belding. And boy, I tell you, Chad for a guy that is so shy and reserved, you sure are a good storyteller. I mean, you know, I've enjoyed watching you on television for for a decade plus now. The fowl life is incredible. Your podcast is inspiring. Why don't you tell? Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about the fowl life, what you try to do when you're filming that, and then we'll work into your podcast. Let's talk about your TV show,
Chad Belding 1:16
though. I appreciate that. Yeah, getting ready to start filming season 14 and brand new episodes are aired right now on the outdoor channel for season 13. And I've always said it that the hunt is awesome. We talked about being unapologetic about a Keith about pulling that trigger and lining that gun up and that beat up on a duck. It's a big responsibility. And it's it's more than the trigger pole to me. And we've always wanted to show that exactly what you touched on about what it means to be around a campfire. And in camp, the smells, the sounds, the anticipation, the reverence the getting ready, I everything that goes into the adrenaline rush of of the coffee pot going off in the morning and the boat motor starting up and the leaves and the spotlights going on and making your way through timber in Arkansas down the Snake River Corridor, the Missouri River, we wanted to show how special all of that was plus the hunt, plus the animal. And then what happens after the hunt with the butchering and the processing the bounty, the camp life, and the food and the culinary part of it. And then we wanted to add in some instruction and try to show people why we were successful. As we gain credibility, we started getting more and more of like, Well, we know you're killing them. But how are you just going to the best places on earth? And yeah, in a lot of ways, we are getting invited to a lot of places, but we wanted to take the time and put in the effort to show the viewer through multiple camera angles through you people or maybe a fired up to hunt with me one time Keith. And then they come out and they're like, yeah, I'm good. Because it's like two and a half hours after the hunts completed that we got to do all of this stuff to build the story down the you know, to get all of the shots that we're going to need as a production company. To let that viewer see what we're living through. We wanted them to see different angles of the ducks here different vocalizations, see how the blinds being built, see how the blinds are positioned all in? You know, the day before that, how we're scouting, what we're looking for, where are the geese approach in front, where are they landing, or they landing high and walk and low because they're probably in a low spot to stay out of the wind, but they're not landing down there. So all of these thoughts of what it takes and all of those moving pieces and puzzles of the waterfowl game, we wanted to try to show the entire aspect of there. So the fowl life started to gain momentum through I believe all of the stories, the locales we were going to, and then our ability to say, Hey, we were on water today, if we didn't have this church string, that we didn't have these ripples on the water in this muddy chocolate milk effect. And those ducks are approaching, they're looking down at glass, we're not in the game, you have to think outside the box, you have to have the ability to be adaptive. And that's what I think people started to see what the foul life is that we would be an Idaho this time. And then we would be out on the eastern shore in the Chesapeake Bay chasing haul crews or something out there. And we were trying to show all these different applications of what you can do if you put in the time, because in all aspects of hunting, it takes time to become proficient and consistent. And we wanted to make sure that people knew that the work at the cab to be there. And it wasn't just Hey, show up and these ducks are gonna do it. We wanted to show the mishaps we wanted to show that some days we don't get them when it's foggy and the winds not blown and Mother Nature's not cooperating. We're still going to put in our time and we wanted to stress that we were going to learn something no matter what that days we're going to take something out of that hunt, negative or positive to build on for the next day and we weren't going to give up and i think that i think it's worth to say that we're going into season 14 is crazy to me of a duck hunting show on the outdoor channel but the fowl life and banded it's it's it's changed our lives and it continues to grow and a container continues to gain momentum and off of that now We've just launched the provider brand, the provider life.com, we just launched 10, dry rubs that have taken off direct and at retail, which blows my mind. We have a 264 page cookbook coming out on November 9 of this year with 80 recipes. Chad Mendez, UFC superstar myself started that Brown with my brothers clan clan. And the cookbook comes out November 9. And then provider TV is going to the Mo Mo TV at the end of August. So we're gonna have 12 episodes of field to fork, how did we get these dogs? How do we get this meal deer? How to Chad, get the sheep at 11,000 feet? And then what did we do to butcher it hindquarter it out, get it off the mountain. And here's some recipes for you to try with your wild game. So we're trying to mix that med provider mentality. And now with the TV and we're going digital with it. You know, we'll have the standard TV on the regular platform about the word channel. And then we'll have provider TV on their atmo. tv. So it just keeps evolving and transitioning. And we're trying to stay ahead of the curve and be good at all aspects of it. It's a lot of work, but we have a heck of a crew. And you know, we're glad to be doing it.
Keith Mark 6:05
You know, as somebody that has hosted outdoor television for over a decade myself, you know, it's one thing to be able to go out and do it right. And there's nobody that would question that Chad belding quite possibly as the number one expert when it comes to waterfowl on the planet right now. But through your television show a non talking as a viewer and Josh and I, we we watch and we talk about the shows, you said storytelling and that's really what you do. You allow me as a viewer, watching the show, to feel like I'm there. And let me learn something, and let me be entertained by what you're doing. And I just want to commend you because you're doing such a great job doing that. And it's such a great service to what we're trying to do and promote hunting on a daily basis because you are a tremendous ambassador. And you know, when I first bought my outfitting business up in the Yukon, it was called McMillan River Outfitters and I immediately changed the name to McMillan river adventures. Because that's really how I view my life. Every day, to me is an adventure, every hunting trip that I go on every campfire I sit around, that's all part of my life's adventure. And so when I started doing outdoor television, it just made sense to me that I named it McMillan river adventures. And of course, Shawn Michaels, and I, you know, we went on so many different adventures, that we love telling the, you know, the tale and our goal was much the same as yours. We wanted to take viewers along on an adventure of a lifetime and do it again for them next week. And I just, again, as a viewer, I just want to thank you for what you're doing and commend you because you truly are taken, you know, US average rank and found guys on a true adventure. And we feel like we're part of what you're doing. So thank you,
Chad Belding 7:56
man. It means the world and you're that show. I would watch it every week. And obviously every Sunday when I was a kid back in the 80s it was WWF. And then WWE. Yeah, just to just to know that you're out there, Keith mark and Shawn Michaels, and I'm like, dude, Shawn Michaels like one of the greatest entertainers that I would love to watch. How cool is that, that you'd be walking through the SHOT Show? And there was Steven Seagal there was 10 Bj and there's Shawn Michaels. But then there's a janitor from a high school with his keys that whistles Dixie every time he sweeps down gym floor and takes care of the schools for the kids. He's got just as much pride as Keith mark and Sean Michael do and I was like, This is bad ass and what you said about stories you You're the reason this happened. Uncle Ted called me this morning. But wait and I go this is really happening. He The first thing he said to me was I watched that episode just now. Have you taken that man my colons out the cat with the cancer. And you showed us what hunting did for this man? And he said kudos to you keep in I was like this is really happening. I'm with Keith Mark saying that the show is good and Ted Nugent saying that those episodes are hitting home. So I think that is what keeps you going because how many times can you watch a duck fall out of the sky? Can you How many times can you watch Michael Waddell shooter era I love? He's the best ever. If it wasn't for Michael Waddell, I wouldn't be in the show. I remember at SHOT Show last time it was in Orlando. I had my pilot and he walked in and I walked up to Michael instead. Michael, on Chad belding. Do you think you could watch my pilot for seven minutes? And he said yes. And I went No way. And he still tells that story of walking over to the booth and watching that pilot and giving me the validation of like, you're onto something here. He still tells that story. And that's Michael frickin Waddell. But you can only watch an arrow go through a gear. It's Michael's love of life and his passion in the way that he doesn't take any of this for granted. That just drives me so yeah, hearing you say that here in Ted saying hearing Michael Sander coming on the podcast. And he's telling me that he enjoys it. It's what keeps it going. And I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing, if it wasn't for your efforts and what Ted's done for years and what Michael continues to do. It's There's just an unbelievable lifestyle.
Keith Mark 10:02
Well, I want to come back after this next break and talk about something that actually every name that you've dropped from what ails the new Gen to me and you that are actively involved in but I do want to say one thing. You know, Chad, generally when people would check out McMillan river adventures for the first time, I always hear that people's first thought was, Hey, who's that long haired guy wearing the ponytail next to Keith mark. That's what I always thought. But the name of the show was Shawn Michaels. McMillan river adventures.
Chad Belding 10:37
Were you were you? Were you a fan of the auto the biography they just did auto?
Keith Mark 10:42
Yeah, of course. And, you know, I tell you, you want to talk about being honored and humbled. You know, Sean came out with a book called wrestling for his life. And then, you know, of course, we were doing TV at the time. And, you know, one of the chapters in the book was basically dedicated to our relationship. And, you know, I always wondered what in the world did this guy see in me, and he basically tells the story, that the WWE World is like a carnival. And everyone that's in the carnival is F dump, in one way or the other. And they don't really deal with people outside of the carnival. They just deal with their own f dub buddies with inside the carnival. And he said, and after I met Keith, and, you know, started talking to Triple H and Steve Austin, those other guys about the relationship I had with Keith, we all realized that he was just as eff up as the rest of his so that the relationship worked. So he said that was a compliment. But anyway, I don't know. Well, stay tuned. We're gonna come back and we're going to talk about something that Chad and I are both just actively involved in it. We want to get you involved in coming up right after this break.
Right On The Mark 11:54
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation fighting against anti hunting rules and regulations every day to protect your right to hunt, visit Hunter nation.org. To learn more, and to join today.
Josh Ishmael 12:07
I checked me three quick questions. Okay. So first one is just give us one tip for success to be a better waterfowl hunter that's completely overlooked.
Chad Belding 12:17
One of the biggest tips I would say for waterfowl hunters is what you do four or five days out of when you're planning on hunting, look at the weather report to understand what the skies are going to be doing understand what the barometric pressure is doing. And try to go on days that are going to be Bluebird skies and sun you want to create shadows and your decoys, your decoys spread and all the movement that you're creating is going to look so much more realistic with shadows and sunshine bouncing off of that those cloudy, low overcast days are tough. So pay attention to the weather, the barometric pressure, the sunshine and the wind and then it's gonna help your success rate for sure.
Josh Ishmael 12:52
Perfect top tip you would give a caller just to be a better caller.
Chad Belding 12:58
Duncan Deuce calling you got to understand the vocabulary there's a very vast vocabulary when it comes to Canada geese. The Mallard vocabulary is very small but there's a lot of hands together so you want to sound like as many different birds as you can. I understand starting slow and building up and getting the quack are the clock if you're calling Canada geese, quack Mallard Canada Goose the clock but he wanted to get to the point where you can use your back pressure and your hands and your mouth cavity and the fatty tissues in your mouth to create different individual birds so one ducks going the next one comes in you have different dogs to make that more realistic because no two dogs or two t sound the same.
Josh Ishmael 13:44
Perfect. Okay, last one. You talked about the the provider in the cookbook what's kind of a tip you would give a person for cooking wildgame whether it's ducks or deer or fish.
Chad Belding 13:56
The main sample up besides the internal temperature not overdoing you know a deer steak or a duck breast to fish is in the field preparation as soon as that bird is harvested or that antelope at 90 degree heat Northern Nevada or a mule deer in the mountains the temperature of that meat is going to dictate what it's going to taste like in a week or a month or whatever you decide to use it as table fair so getting the blood out of it getting it on ice getting it vacuum sealed, getting it prepped the right way labeled with the date on it and make sure you keep it organized in your freezer so when you open that door of a chest freezer or a stand up freezer, you know exactly what you're pulling out what date it was killed, and you have all of the air out of it vacuum sealed it's going to last a lot longer that way, the freshness The taste is going to be there. And then obviously the dry rubs the recipes all of the ingredients that you use with a cookie to 133 degrees internal tamp, medium rare and enjoy.
Josh Ishmael 14:53
No but I appreciate it. You did a great job and a passion passion is a is one of the first word that comes to mind. with you and but you have not lost the passion and it I feel like you're just a brand new every season you're a brand new hunter that just itching to get back in the field.
Chad Belding 15:09
I appreciate that. It's true man. I can't wait.
Right On The Mark 15:11
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak at Mossy Oak a life Outdoors is in your DNA shop their incredible pattern selection and more at Mossy Oak, calm Mossy Oak, feed your obsession.
Keith Mark 15:27
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And man, I tell you, I wish I don't even know if the cameras are in the audio was rolling during the break. But the stories that were telling during the break are better than the show. We're talking about. Josh and I hunt in the WWE guys chat telling some stories, but I want to get serious for a second. And of course we're here with Chad belding. And, I mean, he's just the biggest name and in the waterfowl world right now and, and just an all around great guy. Smart to download those ruggedly handsome good looks fool you guys got something going between those earphones. He's wearing that today. And you know, Chad, you and I have spent a lot of time talking just about the world our country is right now. And we're in trouble. I mean, I believe that we're involved in the epic battle of good versus evil. And for some reason that the people that are on the evil side have decided that hunting is bad gun ownership is bad, traditional values, like the family structure, that's bad. The 10 commandments, well, that's bad. Um, and so in 2016, I received just like, the biggest gut punch ever. It's the first time that I had met President Trump. He wasn't even the president at that time. He was one of like, 17 republicans and that were fighting it out for the the nomination during the primaries and and he said to me, Keith, do you want to know why politicians don't come to events like this? And it was the SHOT Show? And I said No, why? And he said, Because hunters don't vote. Now. I didn't know a lot about President Trump at that time other than what I'd seen on the apprentice, and I'd never met him personally. Of course, I've seen him many times personally since then. But I doubted that that was true, because at that time, I was spending, you know, 200 250 nights a year, around campfires with hunters all over the country, they were up to date on current events. Their values were impeccable, they believed in God, family country, and the traditional values that we love in the hunting community. I was convinced that my fellow hunters and sportsmen and women were voting those values. But Chad, when we got the data, it was just sickening to me. Depending on the state that you look at less than half of licensed hunters are participating in the voting process. And what's worse than that, a third of those half not participating didn't even have a tag to vote, meaning they weren't even like registered to vote. So I said about in 2016 in a pretty informal manner, working with our friend Ted Nugent, and Donald Trump Jr. and Mark Geist and a lot of my other buddies, you know, just trying to get sportsmen to the polls, go vote, go vote these values. And then obviously, then now we have hunter nation and hunter nation was really spawned by this entire idea that if you believe in God, family country in the traditional values, including hockey, why are you not out voting to protect those values? And so that's really what hunter nation is doing at Hunter nation, Oregon. And I'll tell you, Chad, I'm a huge fan of you personally and professionally and to have you throw your name and your support in with hunter nation, you know that that means a lot. And I promise you it means a lot to all those people that watch and listen to you on a regular basis. And so you know, people hear me talk about hunter nation all the time. But what I want you to do is just to explain to the listeners why you are so involved in hunter nation and why you believe hunter nation is the right organization at this time in America.
Chad Belding 19:23
I think it comes from the ideology Keith of First off, thank you for everything you're doing. And thank you for having me on. proud to be part of the hunter nation. And I think that what it means to me is there's maturity levels in life and in hunting in our careers and how we look at hunting, and it starts off with while you get into it, you learn it and then you might become a teenager and and in all the way through your early 20s. You might smiles make piles, we got to have the piles we got to get the picture of the biggest deer we're just we're possessed to be limits and we care about limits and now we start maybe moving in to our family part. Where we get kids involved, and then we start seeing how important other aspects of the hunt are one thing that I've always seen through these ages of people that are 18 to 35, because that's a lot of who watches our show, and comes to our seminars or attends a lot of the events that were added a dealer to come and meet us or whatever. And I think that the words taking it for granted, ring true in a lot of this, because there's so much work going on behind the scenes by individuals like you and Josh and your entire team in hunter nation, that are really taken serious and known about by hunters of that age. And I think that the sooner we can educate people in hunting, and outdoors and conservation in provider mentality, that, hey, these rights are being fought for behind the scenes daily. And if we if we don't go out and go to that ballot box and vote, the politicians and the leaders that are going to stand up for our culture and support the culture of the American hunter in the world Hunter, then what are we really doing because all we're doing is going out and thinking that, hey, it's going to last forever. And we started this conversation off by showing signs that there are trying to take that away from us and not let it last forever for our kids and our grandkids from you know, for future generations to come. So I think that I want to be a voice and help you and you help us spread the word of get involved. Get involved with hunter nation, understand the message and go out and vote take the time to go out and do what's right. If nothing else, you're helping secure the leadership that is going to go in the trenches and fight for us and fight for our rights, that we have to have to keep this heritage and privilege alive. And I want to keep stressing how much of a privilege it is because it can will it can be taken away, will it that's up to us. And we have to fly that flag the right way and speak with the right voice and the right gratitude and the right humility. Because like my good friend, Remy Warren says, it will be a hunter that gets this there's privilege or right revolt. And I want to be on the other side of saying, hey, let's do it. Right. Even if you said things in the past or did things that might not have been the most best decisions of your life, it's up to us to take it to the next level. Now get involved with hunter nation, go out and vote support the politicians and the leaders that are going to take our communities and our counties in our state and our nation, to the level that we needed. And that is family, that is the outdoors that is respecting other individuals and respecting the rights of so many out there. And hunters are the ultimate, we understand what it takes to live off the land, we understand what it takes some care for an animal like a rancher and a farmer does with his land or her land. We understand that about animals we have compassion for so we can take that voice and put it on the foul life and show that we support 100 nation and have the have the decency to look at the people that paved this path for us and understand the day we're doing things to help us secure our privilege right now we need to do the same thing. And I think that more kids and more young adults need to be involved in and I'm not saying that people 35 to 5560 don't need to be doing it as well. But we need to educate people of how important the behind the scenes really are. Because this lifestyle is not one to take for granted.
Keith Mark 23:15
Well, you know, that's no, I mean, the only thing I would add to that is listen, if that touched you like that, gave me goosebumps, go to Hunter nation.org. Go to Hunter nation.org. And just check them out. They're on the frontlines every single day, whether that's fighting for disabled veteran rights in Montana, trying to make sure we can continue to predator hunt all across the country, whether that's trying to get this arcade ban on Sunday hunting lifted in the 11 states that still think that's the right thing to do. And so on and so forth. Please go to Hunter nation.org and join this army now. Lastly, chat. I've just put this off as long as I can put it off. I love George Brett. I am a huge George Brett fan. I love to play in baseball. You know he lives in Kansas City where I live outside of Kansas City and baser. So what do I have to barter? What do I have to trade? What? I want an introduction?
Unknown Speaker 24:20
No problem. That's it. That was easy. Great. Thanks for having to say. Most people say great.
Chad Belding 24:31
You've got enough for me, Keith. George is an unbelievable human being and one. One thing I remember is he hadn't done an autograph signing in Kansas City. He doesn't do any of them really anymore. And I went to him and I said you think it would not new George to the Tennessee flame thrower. leuco shaver was a first round draft pick to Kansas City. By the way.
Keith Mark 24:51
By the way, Luke has appeared on on hunter nation. You know, he was a great big time Hunter. we hunted with him a bunch and the I love glucose shaper.
Chad Belding 25:02
Sorry about that. Yeah, he's an amazing individual family man his farms in Kansas. He sided with me in a lot of different states. But I remember meeting George through Luke in Scottsdale in spring training. But I went to him and I said, Hey, do you think you would do an autograph signing at the Kansas City Cabela's forum? And George said, Yeah, I'll do it. And I'm like, really, I was like, blown away. So I remember I'm at my hotel key, and he calls me says, Hey, I'm coming to get you. And he pulls up in his Mercedes. And I'm like, George, Brad's picking me up to drive me to do a favor for me. And when I say that, there was 2500 people in line, there was more than that. They had to break it up in increments, because George was only going to sign for maybe two hours. Then I remember this autograph hound comes through for the second time, and it was so obvious. And George looked at him and said, You're already here. And the guy goes, No, I wasn't. George says yes. You were, uh, George knew what was happening like the flick of a switch. He knew that this guy was just trying to sell this stuff, you know, on eBay or wherever. And George said, No, I'm not gonna sign it again. I want more kids to be able to come through this line. And there was kids with looks on their faces with Sports Illustrated covers with Jordan pictures with George and Bo Jackson together George and Brett say Reagan, George and Dan quisenberry. GEORGE And Frank white. All of the Royals decals are everything Kansas City, Kauffman Stadium and George sat there and signed in I'm like, look at these people wrapped around this building that this guy literally partied water in for 21 seasons in Kansas City makes this home there will never leave Kansas City has a job with the Kansas City Royals that I really don't even know what it is. And he's sitting in that booth at Cabela's. Just one of the dudes just telling stories inside and whatever. And I looked at him and been like, that's what life's all about right there. And since then, he's just been one of those guys is coming out to speak for us in February. He was coming out this year, but COVID stopped. He's speaking for the University of Nevada Reno Bobby Dolan dinner to raise money for the baseball team and some of the needs they have. And he's also just put I wish I could show you but the cookbook I mentioned he did an endorsement for me on the back cover about my cooking and how me and him have cooked in his backyard and and what this cookbook means to him so just blows my mind that go into Oakland when I was a kid driving three and a half hours of my mom and dad sit in the bleachers because we report we grew up poor but my mom and dad worked their asses off to get us bleacher seats and I would hold up signs of number five and camber seat number boat and 16 Bo Jackson and I would cheer for the Royals against the Oakland A's that Ricky and Dave Henderson and Dave Stewart Mbatha they were awesome. But my first team in 1982 my dad put me on the Royals in the valley Providence Little League and I became a fast fan of Kansas City they ended up winning the World Series A couple years later and and now I get to sit down and eat you know t bones with George Breton his backyard it's unbelievable
Keith Mark 27:52
well listen you know you've done so much already for hunter nation but you know obviously we're trying to spread the spread the word and you know you name two huge of people that could help us Bo Jackson obviously is from you know done so much Kansas City Royals than Raider. Big time Hunter. he's friends with a mutual friend of ours Ralph and Vicki Sansa really who are big into hunter nation, you know, set bow up with with bows back in the days when he was in Chicago. Listen, I would you know, I only have 10 fingers. But I probably give a few of them if you could, you know give me an introduction to Bo Jackson and George bread as much it would it would mean for me personally Of course. I honestly I would love to get them involved and tell them about hunter nation because I'm convinced with voices like yours voices like Foxworthy john Donald Trump Jr, Ted Nugent, and Bo Jackson and George Brett to this mix. I mean, honestly, Chad, I believe together, we can change the trajectory of this country, get back on track, get it back to a country that stands and reveres our wonderful flag, get it back to a place where we respect law enforcement, get them back to a place where our military means something and more importantly, get us back to a place that we're traditional American values are honored, not vilified. And that includes God family of our country and then of course our hunting lifestyle. So Chad, I, I really appreciate you coming on the show today. You're an incredibly human being a great role model and an incredible storyteller. And and I'm proud to say my friend so thanks for On The Mark buddy. Thank
Chad Belding 29:31
you so much, Keith. I'm proud to call you a friend Josh thank you and I was looking for a picture on my phone just now I don't want to keep you but George was so proud one day says come check this out. He walks me out in his garage and his golf bag sitting there in every head cover on his I think it's what is it a one three and a five wood or whatever his driver has three in his five all had Donald Trump headcovers on them and he's just happy to take a picture of him hold them up. So yeah, he's a patriot and he believes in what we believe in. So yeah, all right. argue with you on George, Brett and, and go from there. I truly appreciate y'all having me on. Hey, thanks,
Keith Mark 30:04
guys, Right On The Mark. Come back again next week. And we'll have some more Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 30:11
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of bow and arrow productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions Copyright 2021
Episode 19 featuring Jordan Hoover and Richard P. Smith
Guests: Michigan Upper Peninsula residents Jordan Hoover and writer Richard P. Smith
Deer hunting in the U.P. of Michigan was once the envy of the state. Today, deer herds are in decline while wolf populations are proliferating. Our guests feel they have reason to believe a large part of the problem involves corruption in their Natural Resource’s Board. ROTM’s host, Keith Mark, drills down on the details and what he is told, if true, should disturb every Michigan hunters and hunters all across the land.
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark, Episode Number 19, featuring Jordan Hoover and Richard P. Smith starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting. He's Keith Mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:44
Well, welcome back to another Right On The Mark podcast. And Josh, you know, I'm shocked today, we're gonna have a couple guests from Michigan. And I think they're going to tell us that there's, I even have to pause. I don't even know that I can say corruption in Michigan. Is that possible? Josh?
Josh Ishmael 1:02
That cannot be true in politics. Not Not a chance?
Keith Mark 1:05
No, you know, especially in Michigan, my goodness, you know, I mean, I can't imagine but, you know, one of the things that that I've figured out here in the last several years that I've been involved in politics, that if something goes wrong in politics, it's our fault. It's our fault, because we're picking these people, you know what I'm saying? I mean, and yeah, we can piecemeal solutions, and along the way, but in the end, it's up to us, we the people, and in my world we the hunting people, to to pick better? Well, in some cases, actually just go pick, you know, what do you think judge?
Josh Ishmael 1:46
Yeah, no,I mean, you can't really complain if you don't get out and then voice your opinion. So that's the main thing is get people to the polls, and then let them do their own research. And no matter who you're voting for, just get out and vote.
Keith Mark 1:57
Yeah, it's simple to me, right? We have a code of values that we all live by, we all know, right? from wrong, we knew it when we were kids, you know, we learned the Golden Rule, the 10 Commandments, and then eventually we'll learn the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and all those controversial things in America today. And there's no reason that we're not, you know, out voting those values. But you know, I'm really excited about today's because what we're gonna have on today is, honestly, although they have great credentials, and we're gonna give a little of them, but they're just hunters like you and me. And we're going to talk to Michigan hunters about issues that impact Michigan hunters that you know, I don't know, that sounds perfect for me, Josh.
Josh Ishmael 2:40
Right.I mean, if they're better hunters than us, it doesn't take a whole lot.
Keith Mark 2:43
No, exactly. It's certainly not you because I've hunted with you, Josh. And you know, we can always go back and tell the story about how, you know, you watch me shoot, I don't know 20 moose over the years and brag up how you could do it better. You had to bow in your hands. You had a moose right in front of you basically the size of a Volkswagen bus. You drew your bow back, I was filming. And basically there was two moose down there you flop shot, and you missed them both, right?
Josh Ishmael 3:07
I don't remember that. Hahaha.
Keith Mark 3:08
Yeah. Listen, if you're listening today, you're gonna want to stick around because we got Jordan Hoover, who's the Hunter Nation coordinator for the Upper Peninsula in Michigan, bow hunter extraordinare. And then we've got, you know, kind of a legend in Michigan writing really all around the country, writes for a lot of publications, Richard P. Smith, I'm sure you've read his work. And they're going to chime in on some things, just hunting in general, we're going to talk about some deer management issues they're having problems within in Michigan and something near and dear to Josh in mines are predator management issues. So stick around, we're gonna have some more Right On The Mark podcast.
Right On The Mark 3:46
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation fighting against anti hunting rules and regulations every day to protect your right to hunt, visit Hunter nation.org. To learn more, and to join today.
Keith Mark 3:59
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And, you know, we're going to talk about some issues that directly impact Michigan hunters. But the truth of the matter is, these are issues that are not unique to Michigan, their, their their hunting issues. We're going to couch them today in terms of Michigan. So with no further ado, I'd like to bring in Jordan Hoover, who is the Hunter Nation, Upper Peninsula coordinator that sounds like a lot you can tell us what that all involves. And then legendary Richard P. Smith, and I love Richard's background because obviously Richard's in the midst of right 90 different articles and he stored all of his articles in those file cabinets behind him. So Richard and Jordan, welcome to the podcast.
Richard P. Smith 4:44
Those are actually all slides and those file cabinets behind me. Yeah, 1000s and 1000s of
Keith Mark 4:50
Yeah, well, when I was talking to Jordan before you came on, Richard, he said you weren't very busy at all. what's what's the deal? You look busy.
Richard P. Smith 4:57
That was kind of a sarcastic comment.
Keith Mark 5:00
Oh, was it true? So it was kind of like watching fake news?
Richard P. Smith 5:04
Yes, exactly.
Keith Mark 5:05
Wasn't true. Well, uh, you know, we touted you guys in the open is being Michigan hunters. Jordan, tell me a little bit about your hunting background and, and then we'll get to you, Richard.
Jordan Hoover 5:19
Well, I'm full grown Michigan boy live lived here my whole life, I now raise my own family of four sons and my wife for 13 years. And they all shoot bow and shoot rifles and are avid participants in all aspects of our great U.P. outdoors. Yeah, I've spent the last 27 years hunting in the back country in the northwest U.P. in particular. And those experiences have provided me unique insight into our natural resources issues regarding deer and wolves and, and how to affect better better policy through those experiences.
Keith Mark 5:55
Well, I'm glad to have you on because our good friend and actually the national spokesperson for Hunter Nation was on Tucker Carlson recently. And he was talking about how you know, this policy is set and he was pretending he was in front of a computer screen. And people were saying, well, there's only 30 wolves in the state. He goes, No, there's like 300 in this county, you need to get out where the wolves live, where the deer roam, where the antelope, the elk. I mean, it's impossible, in my opinion, and I think in a lot of people's opinion, to set sound conservation policies and quota if you're not out in the field, and it sounds like you're out there regularly. So I'm looking forward to hearing your insight on these topics. Richard, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Richard P. Smith 6:37
Well, I'm a lifelong Hunter. I've been hunting deer and bear in Michigan here for over 50 years. I'm one of a handful of hunters who've been successful in collecting a commemorative "Bucks of Michigan Grand Slam". Bucks of Michigan is the state record beginning record keeper. In order to get a Grand Slam, you have to take a deer, bear elk, and Turkey in this state, each of which qualifies for state records. I was the second person in the state to achieve that mark in it took a lifelong of hunting to do so. And Elk, of course is the most difficult of those, because there's a limited number of permits for elk hunting issued in Michigan every year.
Keith Mark 7:28
You know, and that's impressive, Richard, you know, one of the things Josh, that I get a kick out of it's just awesome. And you know, when I was doing outdoor television, I would spend 200, 250 nights a year around campfires talking to hunters just like you guys. And you know, the themes are always the same Jordan talking about passing it on to his kids. Richard talking about you know, it's a lifelong experience. I mean, and everybody's so proud to be part of this lifestyle. You know, I mean, I think it's cool, Josh.
Josh Ishmael 7:58
Oh, for sure. And you know, the great thing about hunters is, when you sit around a campfire, you've never met a bad one. I mean, everybody that sit around the hunting campfire, no matter if they're a crossbow, or bow or gun or mussle-loader or whatever, every time you're sitting around a campfire with them. They are great dudes.
Keith Mark 8:15
Yeah, no, I agree with you. So let's talk a little bit about what's going on up there in Michigan, we kind of alluded to a little bit in the open, Jordan, you guys are having some problems figuring out how to manage your wildlife up there. Let's start with deer What's going on?
Jordan Hoover 8:32
Well, in particular, with deer, I don't think there's a hunter anywhere in any corner of the state of Michigan, whether it's your peninsula or the lower that's happy with the current state of the herd.
Keith Mark 8:44
What's wrong with the herd tell us that?
Jordan Hoover 8:47
Well, reports are coming in from hunters all across the Upper Peninsula, parts of the Lower Peninsula that they're seeing lower deer numbers than they've ever seen before. I've heard some guys offer insight saying that they hunted three weeks straight and rifle season and never saw a deer in the east end of the U.P..
Keith Mark 9:04
What's the common thread? What's the common thread among hunters? what's the what's the problem? Why are we seeing it really all across the country, we're having flourishing deer herds, except those places where they're not properly managing their predators. But by and large, deer herds are up everywhere. So what's what's wrong up there?
Jordan Hoover 9:23
Well, I think there's two things in specific and one is more general than the other. One is, I believe that there has been probably a couple decades worth of horrible management practices put in place for deer regs. And then the other is we have a abundant flourishing and growing population of wolves currently is not managed.
Keith Mark 9:45
So you know, one of the things actually the two things that I wanted to talk with you about and I was gonna take them separately, deer management and predator management, but the truth of the matter is Jordan, it's impossible to talk about those two topics separately.
Jordan Hoover 10:01
Absolutely.
Keith Mark 10:02
If you have, and we love the wolves at Hunter Nation. In fact, almost every hunter that I've talked to loves the wolf, we love the bear. We love the cougar, we love the you know, the raccoon, the coyote, the deer, the elk, the moose. I mean we are true, true conservationists across the board.4 We want an abundance of everything. But if one gets out of whack, too many deer, too many elk, too many moose, too many bears, too many cougars, too many wolves in Michigan, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what happens and so because of an unchecked wolf population in Michigan, especially up there in your home of the U.P., what has happened?
Jordan Hoover 10:49
Well, the wolves obviously, without any method of harvest, have proliferated. That, hand in glove, with poor forestry practices that have dramatically diminished our wintering complexes, our thermal covers have reduced deer survival rates. The nutrition is poor. The buck-to-doe ratio has steadily declined to suspected 10 or 12 to one due to a six year long archery doe tag ban instituted by the Natural Resources Commission. And the Natural Resources Commission is really the heart of one of these issues. You brought up politics, the Natural Resources Commission have the sole authority in the state of Michigan to regulate bag limits, take up game, etc. And the Natural Resources Commission has continued to make decisions that defied the best available sound scientific evidence and flatly refused to institute a wolf hunt.
Keith Mark 11:43
Well, let's let's just back that up. I did a little bit of looking before I came on here. Doesn't your state require those bag limits to be based on the best available science? Isn't that written somewhere?
Jordan Hoover 11:58
It is in the state of Michigan, we have what's known as Proposal G that was installed via public referendum and made statute law in 1996. And it says exactly what you just said that the best available sound scientific evidence must be the sole basis for these decisions.
Keith Mark 12:14
You know, and it seems crazy to me that we have to write that down. I mean, we have to actually codify "Well, we need to make our wildlife decisions on sound science policy". It's.... men and women had to actually write that down to remind themselves of that seems funny to me right? Now. So you have that in your law, Jordan, and your DNR, whatever you call them, your Natural Resources Commission, they looked at all this information, they saw what's going on with the unchecked wolf population, they've seen the decrease in the deer population, they've heard from hunters on the ground like you, I know your vocal and other hunters around you arer vocal, and with some ideas of how to fix that the doe tag situation, so on and so forth, hunting wolves, so on and so forth. And they still did the wrong thing.
Jordan Hoover 13:11
They did.
Keith Mark 13:12
And so, I used the word corruption early. And you know, I mean, who's to say, right, but it seems to me when we continually get this bad policy from bureaucrats that are appointed by our elected employees. And they're looking at the science and they still do the wrong thing. And again, this is Keith Mark speaking, that makes me think something sinister, something terribly wrong is going on, right. When you think about this, we all want flourishing herds, flocks, we want healthy predator populations, we want healthy habitat. I mean, we want all of that. And so if the people that are making the decision set back and say, "nah, we don't want any of that," we're going to jack this up till the cows come home. In my mind, my fear is that anti-hunters have infiltrated these decision making positions, and we're getting absolutely bad policy. Um, what's your thought?
Jordan Hoover 14:25
I would agree with that. I think there's a heavy anti-hunting influence. I mean, certainly, I attended the first wolf Advisory Council meeting over in Ishpeming, about a week ago, and all the household names from the anti-hunting community were there, you know, Attorneys For Animals, American Humane Society, etc, etc. It is an absolute mistake for anyone in the hunting community to think that those people are are stupid and not tactically intelligent about how to go after us. They're doing it and it's very important that we're articulate, that we're in informed and we meet that challenge head on with every opportunity. Just as many of us did at the Wolf Advisory Council meeting. And since we're on that subject, that's, that's one of the things we want to talk about today. There was a gentleman by the name of Kevin Swanson, who was employed by the Department of Natural Resources as a biologist for many years. And he worked specifically with the wolf program in varying capacity over that time. And Kevin showed up to the Wolf Advisory Council meeting, and made allegations of, well, what amounts to suppression of wolf population growth data.
Keith Mark 15:37
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I want to make sure everybody listening understands what you just said. He alleged that they were burying documents about how many wolves are really in Michigan. That's, that's in layman's terms.
Right On The Mark 15:49
Yes, yep. That was the opening allegation.
Keith Mark 15:53
And
Jordan Hoover 15:54
Senior leadership, he alleged were complicit in doing that that had gone on for quite a period of time. And that even after leaving the department that it ate his conscience alive if he hadn't spoken out sooner, and that's why he showed up at the wolf Advisory Council meeting.
Keith Mark 16:11
So was that news? Was that front page news in Michigan? It seems to me it would be Michigan large hunting state. What was that like the byline on every paper in your state?
Jordan Hoover 16:23
Unfortunately, it wasn't Keith, I can tell you that by telephone lines glowed red for about four days after that meeting, I had numerous conversations ranging from our elected officials to stakeholder leadership to common hunters that all wanted to know what was going on and get more information. And, you know, unfortunately, the media, they're not very interested. In fact, a couple of outlets just flatly never returned my calls.
Keith Mark 16:50
Well, obviously, we the people, we must hold our elected employees accountable. So you know, you're the Upper Peninsula coordinator for Hunter Nation. And we're going to talk a little bit about Hunter Nation and what Hunter Nations really doing all across the country to protect our hunting lifestyle. But what are you going to do up there to hold these people accountable? What's the plan?
Jordan Hoover 17:16
Well, I think the first pathway forward is to get our legislature involved. We've got got a couple of really good folks representing us here from the upper peninsula one of which is Senator Ed McBroom. I've got a great working relationship with him. And I wholeheartedly believe that if there's there's a trail of evidence to find and there's wrongdoing on behalf of the Department, that he's going to pursue that to its finish, whatever that may be. You know, he serves on the State Senate Natural Resources Committee as well as the Oversight Committee. So he's in a unique position to to investigate these allegations and affect change where necessary,.
Keith Mark 17:54
You know, and we're gonna have to take a quick break, fellas, so stick around guys, we've got some more Right On The Mark podcasts we're going to visit with Richard when we come back, so stay tuned.
Right On The Mark 18:03
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak. At Mossy Oak a life Outdoors is in your DNA shop, their incredible pattern selection and more at MossyOak.com. Mossy Oak, feed your obsession.
Keith Mark 18:20
Welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast, Richard, you know, obviously, you're a writer. And so when you hear these things like this, in this potential wrongdoing that's going on up there in Michigan. Just burying data, which that that is just crazy to me. What's your thoughts?
Richard P. Smith 18:42
Well, I was at the same meeting that Jordan was at the wolf advisory committee and heard Kevin Swanson's testimony, clearly stating that he he knows for a fact that his survey data where he located a new pack in a part of the Upper Peninsula, that data was not used in one of the estimates. And in a following estimate survey, some of his information was not used as well. It was eye opening. Most people suspected the department was under estimating the wolf population based on what they've seen in the field. And Kevin's testimony confirmed that.
Keith Mark 19:30
You know, how in the world Richard, can we manage our deer population if we aren't managing the wolf population and all predators, is it possible?
Richard P. Smith 19:45
It makes it difficult, makes it very difficult.
Keith Mark 19:48
Well, it makes it difficult at the start, but if if you guys don't get something done about wolves in the Upper Peninsula, I assure you what people are going to see on the wall behind Jordan there, they're going to be in museums in Michigan, because you're not going to have them.
Richard P. Smith 20:06
And one of the other major problems we have with deer management in the Upper Peninsula is our severe winters. Periodically, we have deep snow that comes in November and doesn't leave until May. That's very difficult for many whitetails to survive. So it's important for hunters to play their role in harvesting enough deer during the fall before winter, to reduce the deer population to within the carrying capacity of what that winter habitat can support. And the regulations and Natural Resources Commission approved, they shot down the DNR recommendations to better manage the population by allowing hunters to harvest more deer during the fall to reduce winter losses.
Jordan Hoover 21:00
I would point out hand in glove with that as well that an archers arrow or a hunters bullet is far more humane and than a pack of wolves eating that deer alive.
Richard P. Smith 21:09
The animals suffer for long periods of time, before eventually dying because of our high wolf population. Currently, a lot of weakened deer from the winter are killed by wolves, which reduces the suffering they have. But they shouldn't we shouldn't have as many deer dying of starvation as we currently do.
Keith Mark 21:30
Isn't that really fellas what it comes down to is that when man started encroaching into the wilderness many years ago, we ultimately took responsibility for the management of all the wildlife. Because the minute you reduce habitat, that reduces carrying capacity, and then man has to manage all of the species in that habitat so that we can have a thriving, healthy population of all, doesn't it start there, Richard?
Richard P. Smith 22:02
Yes, it does. And as Jordan mentioned, winter habitat is important. But when you try and carry too many deer through the winter, it destroys that winter habitat. It eliminates whatever efforts are underway to protect that habitat and improve it.
Keith Mark 22:19
Right. I mean, listen, if we shove 30,000 people into the Golden Corral by my house, and then there ain't gonna be enough roast beef and fried chicken and mashed taters to feed them all. Simple, right?
Richard P. Smith 22:33
Exactly.
Keith Mark 22:34
So if you shove too many deer into the Golden Corral habitat of the Upper Peninsula and a harsh winter, they're all going to die or a large number of them are going to die. That does not seem like a hard concept for an old bow hunter like myself.
Josh Ishmael 22:52
Right, which what you're explaining, Keith, for people that don't understand that, that's a very, very simple example of what carrying capacity that Richards talking about it. Too many deer with not enough forage or food to sustain the winter, which in turn leads to deer deaths come the harsh, harsh winter. So that's carrying capacity. And Richard, you might touch on that just a little bit more is like what, what's kind of your definition of carrying capacity for listeners who don't really know what that means?
Richard P. Smith 23:20
W ell, it's to limit the deer population to a level that will support the existing deer population, very simple.
Keith Mark 23:33
Yeah, then we spin in abundance or an over abundance of wolves. After we've just had a deer herd go through a hard winner. And then it's a recipe for disaster. And so listen, you guys have made this so simple that obviously even Josh understood it was so obviously we've dumbed it down to the lowest level today, guys,
Richard P. Smith 23:58
You had me at Golden Corral.
Keith Mark 23:59
Right. Yeah. Josh hasn't heard a word you guys said since I said Golden Corral. But so how in the world is it that you're and I'm asking a rhetorical question... that you're elected, your appointed bureaucrats up there can't figure it out and get the deer management in the wolf management in place? I'm going to answer my own question. Either they're intentionally mismanagement mismanaging these resources, or they're just dumber in a box of rocks, and I don't believe they're dumber than a box of rocks. What's your take on that, Jordan?
Jordan Hoover 24:34
Well, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think that, you know, one of my sons is a third grader, and we can have this conversation with my third grade son and he could rationalize what we're saying. As you pointed out, it's not hard to understand. The people that are appointed to these positions of authority over our natural resources certainly know, the information. They they're privy to information, Richard and I often have to wait a substance amount of time to get, they get it immediately. So these decisions are certainly premeditated and they're done knowingly. It's deeply concerning to see the involvement of politics in this way of special interest in the management of our natural resources. And ironically, that's exactly what Proposal G was installed to prevent. Proposal G was a public referendum that was adopted as state law in 1996. And the purpose of that law was to prohibit politics, and what we now call social science, or outside influence special interest from influencing the decisions that are made regarding the management of our natural resources.
Richard P. Smith 25:46
And I just like to add that 1996, we had a bear hunting referendum in Michigan. We're anti-hunters, we're trying to ban bear hunting with bait and dogs in 1996. Proposal G was put on the ballot as an alternative to the anti-hunting measure to give voters in Michigan a choice. More than 70%, around 70% of Michigan voters voted for Proposal G to let the professionals manage wildlife using the best science available in the bear hunting proposals were shot down, they did not be get enough votes. Social science is basically public opinion among voters, many of whom are uninformed about scientific biological management of wildlife. It results in poor management of wildlife, because most of the people offering their opinion are uninformed about basic wildlife management principles.
Jordan Hoover 26:57
I would I would add to that that rabbit hole goes a bit deeper, because certain special interests are then unable to politically indear and entrench themselves. And it's an endless circle of money begets power begets influence. And that that ultimately has led us where we are today.
Richard P. Smith 27:16
So that's an important part of why Proposal G was on the ballot in 1996.
Keith Mark 27:24
Well, my opinion, the solution is so simple, it's stupid. And if our listeners will stay tuned, we'll come back and we'll give you the solution. Coming right up.
Right On The Mark 27:36
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Keith Mark 27:55
Welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast and you know, we promise you we're gonna get into some solutions. But before we get there, Richard, I want you to kind of, you know, I'm going to call this getting in the weeds a little bit. Tell us about some of the specific bad policy that's going on up there in Michigan that makes managing your herds, flocks, fisheries, and predators, difficult at best.
Richard P. Smith 28:22
First of all, it's important for your listeners to understand we have a Department of Natural Resources that make recommendations for regulations. Those regulations go in front of the Natural Resources Commission, a body of seven people, all appointed by the governor political appointees, but they have to approve the recommendations for the DNR in order for them to become law. Our Department of Natural Resources recommended that hunters' choice regulations be eliminated in the Upper Peninsula starting this fall. That antlerless deer be legal to bow hunters throughout the Upper Peninsula, and that crossbows be legal during the late archery season during December in the Upper Peninsula, which is legal everywhere else in the state. These three regulations are unique to the Upper Peninsula, makes it more difficult for hunters to harvest deer and manage deer. The Hunters' Choice option makes both we have a single deer license and a combination deer license. The combination year license includes two buck tags. Under Hunters' Choice both buck tags on combination deer license are restricted. hunters have to shoot a buck with three points on an antler or four points on an antler with those two tags. Prior to prior to 2008, one of those tags was unrestricted, meaning hunters could shoot a buck with three inch spikes or better. That was better management, allowed hunters more flexibility to choose bucks of their choice based on their hunting time and opportunity. The Natural Resources Commission, even though the Department had all of the biology, all of the science to support those three recommendations, the Natural Resources Commission rejected them based on social science or politics or speculation, making it extremely difficult to properly manage the Upper Peninsula deer herd.
Keith Mark 30:23
Okay, let me take you back just a step here, Richard. So your your DNR, with on the field studies, with data, with facts, based on research, came up with some proposals that they felt would make managing the deer population in the U.P. a healthier endeavor. Is that right?
Richard P. Smith 30:47
That's correct.
Keith Mark 30:48
By enlarge the three proposals that were made from your DNR that was based on science, based on facts, was that supported by the hunting community in the U.P.?
Richard P. Smith 30:58
it was supported by some hunters. There were a segment of hunters who opposed those recommendations, as there always are.
Keith Mark 31:07
Yeah. And what's the logic or lack of logic behind those folks?
Richard P. Smith 31:12
Well, that the crossbow is got a reputation among some hunters who haven't used them that crossbows are more efficient and effective at harvesting deer, which DNR data showed it's not the case.
Keith Mark 31:27
I looked at I looked at that data Richard, and absolutely it is not the case. The crop the I mean, the number of deer killed with the crossbow compared to gear killed with the compound bow was was not appreciable.
Richard P. Smith 31:40
I can no longer draw my compound ball and hunt with it like I used to. And the reason crossbows were legalized in Michigan originally, during archery season is to provide hunters like me, who could no longer hunt with archery equipment they used to use, to have the option to use a crossbow and continue hunting. That was very important in that's important everywhere, to provide the opportunity for hunters who can no longer use vertical bows, they have the option of using horizontal bows.
Jordan Hoover 32:18
I would point to the ethos of Hunter ation and part of our mission being to expand, not deny, but expand opportunities for hunters, fishermen, outdoorsman to enjoy all that our great outdoors has to offer. And and it just absolutely pisses me off, that there are people out there that cannot get over their own viewpoints and see things from anyone else's field of view. It's deeply selfish. That's all it is. Any objection to use of crossbows is not based in fact, its opinion. And we need to be seeking ways to unify our hunting community not divide us further.
Richard P. Smith 32:57
E xactly and we have bag limits, in effect that control the harvest. Whether you're using gun or bow or crossbow, those bag limits control the harvest, not the weapon you're using.
Jordan Hoover 33:10
In particular, it's noteworthy to point out that the mainstay of the economy in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in particular comes from outside tourism. We had the nickname they call us God's country. That's for a reason. We have a tremendous, tremendous amount of wonderful natural resources and fantastic outdoor opportunities that you just can't find anywhere else in Midwest like it, to enjoy. And we we are heavily reliant on hunting tourism and those sorts of things on your sightseers, whatever the case may be, but hunting in particular is a multi million dollar a year industry in the Upper Peninsula. I mean, it's it's the mom and pop restaurant. It's the bar that sees the money, its the local gas stations, it's "awe I forgot my pocket knife. We got to stop Hanson's hardware and get a new knife". The money that comes in to our family owned and operated local businesses here during hunting season, I've heard it said often sustains those businesses for the balance of the year.
Keith Mark 34:12
And you know, I'll just chime in right here. Our national spokesperson Ted Nugent says this so eloquently. If you don't manage your wolf population, if you don't properly manage your deer population and all that goes away up in the U.P., these folks need to realize that wolves don't buy tags, wolves don't buy guns, they don't buy arrows, they don't buy bullets. They don't buy ice, they don't pay for taxidermy, they don't buy motel rooms, they don't know any bag limits and they don't know seasons. And so really, the decision makers need to wake up that this is bigger than just a healthy deer herd. This is an economic catastrophe about to happen. And you know, you've raised a great point and this is something that I've been fighting literally for three decades, is I've said it from the beginning...anti-hunters are not going to destroy our lifestyle. They're just not going to do it. They're 16 million of us. They're not going to get us in a fair fight. But apathy, meaning hunters don't get involved in the process. They sit on their hands while their rights are stripped. They sit on their hands why mismanagement occurs right before him and when they go out the hunt tere's nothing. And they try to recruit their kids and their grandchildren, there's nothing to hunt so they're not going to take it up. They become skateboarders and, and web surfers, you know, and if it's not apathy, that's gonna get us it's infighting. It's infighting? Oh, my goodness, you use a crossbow. You use a compound, I'm a traditional hunter. You long range shoot. Well, that's unethical. I mean, it's going to be this infighting among hunters or apathy that gets us Richard, what's your thought on that?
Richard P. Smith 35:58
I agree wholeheartedly. It's a lack of knowledge on the part of some hunters. They go back on what they heard from their grandpa or their dad. Statements about things that aren't true. They're based on speculation. And it's unfortunate that people don't do more research and become more informed to make better decisions.
Keith Mark 36:25
You know, honestly, it's kind of like this. Some people don't go to the store. They buy their steaks from the Omaha or Kansas City Steak company, or Schwann man, and they deliver their meat right to their house. And then they take it. Some people go to Sam's Club, buy in bulk. It's cheaper that way, and they divide it up amongst their family. Some people go down to the local HiV. Some people hunt for it. I mean, so. So I'm going to tell you, Jordan, nope, you can't buy in bulk. You can't mail your steaks to your house, because that's not real shopping. You can't buy your steaks over the over the internet. For God's sake. That's not a real eater. And then, by the way, hey, I'm going to tell you, you can't cook it outside. Well, we can't cook outside. No, you can't cook inside. No, you can't cook steaks on your stove. I mean, this is what hunters have done. And it goes all the way back, remember, and I know you do. Richard. Jordan, you look a little too young. But Richard, you remember when compound bows were getting a foothold, and the traditional archers had a conniption? "Oh my God, we can't allow compound bows during archery season". And then when they went to 65%, let off, they said, "Oh my God, that's cheating. You can't have 65% let off, we're going to put an asterick for all the records in the books". Oh my god. And then when we went to 85%, let off, you would think we had released the Kraken. These people had, and now it's all very accepted. And you know why and it should be accepted. What man or woman can tell another man or woman, how they enjoy the great outdoors and harvest their supper that God has given us in this perfect renewable resource plan that he has called creation. And then hunters all of a sudden think hey, well, you know, Richard, your compound bow hunter, you're not a real Hunter. So you're not entitled to eat tonight. What?
Jordan Hoover 38:25
I think you bring up a fantastic point, you know, going to the point of food. As a longtime U.P. resident, that's imperative. These these small rural communities, many of them, these families depend upon a successful harvest of wild game, including our whitetail deer as their mainstay of protein for the year. It's not something that's merely recreational for most of our people. It's it's embedded in the very fabric of our DNA and woven into the life that we lead.
Keith Mark 38:54
Yeah,I'm proud of the fact and I make no bones about it. Yeah. Do I have trophies on my wall? Have I shot a lot of moose and elk and bear and everything? Yes. Yes. Do I have a trophy room? Yeah, I have, I think four trophy rooms in my house. Two of them are upright. And two of them come out there full of meat, and protein. Those are my favorite trophy rooms in my house. Frigidaire makes them and those are my proudest trophy rooms. But do I love people coming into my house and saying "My gosh, that's a full mounted wolf". Where did you get that? And I love telling the story. I love people saying "look at that moose that you have on your wall behind you, Jordan, that beautiful buck, you know, and then you tell the story as you're cutting up a steak made of the venison from something that you've harvested and that's another story in and of itself. So you had these recommendations made Richard and the bureaucrats at the highest level turn their back on science, turn their back on data, turn their back on logic, turned their back on best sound science practices to manage your wildlife in Michigan. And the top bureaucrats did what?
Richard P. Smith 40:10
They rejected them.
Keith Mark 40:12
So where does that leave you guys?
Richard P. Smith 40:14
Well, on behalf of a group of deer hunters called "Deer Hunters for Responsible U.P. Deer Management, we've undertaken legal action to challenge those decisions by the Natural Resources Commission. Filing was just done this week in the Ingham County Circuit Court in Lansing, where the commission is based where they have most of their meetings. And hopefully, the legal challenge will be successful. They did not use Proposal G in rejecting the DNR recommendations. And hopefully the court will agree with that.
Keith Mark 40:54
Do you guys have a constitutional right to hunt in Michigan?
Jordan Hoover 41:00
I don't know that is in the Constitution.
Keith Mark 41:02
I don't think you do. Do you? I don't know. I'm asking.
Jordan Hoover 41:05
I believe it's implied indirectly with Proposal G. But that is something that I'm currently having dialogue with the senator about is and he's indicated a willingness to examine and see if we can install an amendment to provide for the constitutional right to hunt and fish.
Keith Mark 41:20
Do you do not find it odd? That as hunters, we're asking, almost begging our elected employees to put down in writing what we already know we have. God gave us these incredible renewable resources to put on our supper tables. And yet we're having to go in the great state, the great hunting state of Michigan, to ask our elected employees to put down in writing that we have the constitutional right to hunt. What in the world have we allowed to happen here, fellas?
Jordan Hoover 42:00
I think that you used exactly the correct word earlier, Keith. And I think that word was apathy. And I think in particular, folks in Michigan have had a tough road to hoe with the Department and with the Natural Resources Commission for many years. And I think that that the continued wrongdoing, and the poor decisions and the poor policy, have forced some hunters away. And you know, I personally know a great many people who no longer hunt the state of Michigan, they have leases in Wisconsin, they go to Ohio.
Keith Mark 42:29
Tragic.
Jordan Hoover 42:30
That's unfortunate.
Keith Mark 42:31
Tragic is what it is.
Jordan Hoover 42:33
Yeah, we have a fantastic hunting heritage in the state of Michigan, in particular with the U.P. and it just breaks my heart to see people leaving the state. But apathy, that is the key, we have to get people engaged, we have to get people informed. And we have to stop the infighting. We got to stand shoulder to shoulder because if we don't, we're going to lose everything we hold dear.
Keith Mark 42:53
Well, let's do a couple of things here in in. Richard, did you have one other thing you want to add. buddy?
Richard P. Smith 42:57
I just wanted to add to what Jordan said, besides apathy, Michigan has had such a strong hunting tradition that many hunters are taking for granted those opportunities that we had in the past and those traditions in that's led to the apathy that Jordan referred to?
Keith Mark 43:19
Well, let's do a couple things. Number one, I'm going to make you guys come back on here. And I want to make you guys, let's just throw the gauntlet down accountable. On behalf of the hunters in Michigan, to make sure your elected employees do the right thing here. You guys willing to come back and give us an update on how you dug and prove this corruption, this burying of data and what you did to hold your elected employees and the bureaucrats that they've appointed accountable on behalf of hunters in the great state of Michigan you willing to do that for us?
Richard P. Smith 43:58
Certainly.
Jordan Hoover 44:00
Absolutely. It's a labor of love.
Keith Mark 44:01
And the other thing is, let's just talk about the solution. And it's simple, right? The answer is let's solve these problems at the root. Instead of constantly fighting and butting our heads over trying to ban coyote calling contests in Virginia or trying to ban bear hunting and Vermont or trying to pass legislation that is bad for bow hunting in the U.P. or deer hunting in the U.P.. Why don't we get serious as hunters and join together a unified voice and make that voice heard at the ballot box because quite frankly, I'm embarrassed to say this in the great state of Michigan half of your licensed hunters...let that marinate with you hunting boys up there in Michigan...half of your fellow Michigan hunters, they don't vote and a third of those half, they're not even registered, they haven't even gone out and got their tag to go make their voice heard. So it's got to start with first recognizing, like Richard said, that we've got a pretty damn good here in America. And we've just taken this lifestyle for granted. Can't do that anymore. Apathy has to be a thing of the past in the hunting world. And this infighting if we can't figure that out. I mean, it's the old adage, divide and conquer. And that's what we're doing amongst ourselves. And that is why I'm so proud that I'm part of Hunter Nation. And those of you that are listening that haven't heard of Hunter Nation, I just encourage you to go to HunterNation.org, HunterNation.org, and take a look what Hunter Nation's doing. I know what a lot of you are saying is, "oh, you know, these groups, they come they go", you know, yeah, I've seen it. And I've seen a lot. In fact, I'm life members of almost every alphabet group that's out there. But find me one group that's been in the trenches, trying to make sure hunters are aware of these bad policies like Hunter Nation's doing. Find, well, who's the group over in your sister state of Wisconsin, that they looked at this issue? And they said, hey, look, wolves are decimating our deer population. And so what group? What group came to fight for hunters in Wisconsin. You guys know?
Richard P. Smith 46:28
Hunter Nation.
Jordan Hoover 46:29
Hunter Nation.
Keith Mark 46:29
Well, its the only one and Hunter Nation rolled their sleeves up, and they sued the state. And what happened, killed 216 wolves in, in Wisconsin, this last deer season, I mean, this last hunting season, which leads to an increased exponential amount of deer, that's going to end up on hunters, and in the great families of Wisconsin table. Because of that, I can tell you right now, the leader, the President, CEO of Hunter Nation, Luke Hilgemann, who's a damn warrior for hunters, he just was testifying in front of Wisconsin trying to get that quota raise this year. And I'm pretty confident that's going to happen. You know, Hunter Nation's been in in Virginia, tirelessly recently trying to make sure they don't ban coyote calling contest there because that's really the only coyotes that are getting killed in Virginia are part of these contests. Because, again, like Richard said, we've got these hunters that just believe predator management occurs because we think it occurs. So if we don't band together, and I don't know, if you if somebody can come to me, my information is all on the Hunter Nation website. If you can find me another group that's willing to roll their sleeves up, get steel toed boots, and grab these anti hunters by the throat and kick them right square in the nuts with these steel toed boots, to make sure that hunters rights are being protected tell me because I want to join them. I want to be a life member. I want to be a benefactor. Because I'm like you, Richard, you know, I'm up in age. And there's more runway behind me than in front of me. And I'm, I take this personally, this is a legacy that we're dealing with here. What are we going to leave for our children? What are we going to leave for our grandchildren? What would Fred Bear, your great Fred Bear from the state of Michigan say to hunters, if he could come back today and look at the state of affairs. You know, Fred Bear went from traditional archery to developing a company that made compound bows that pretty much tells you exactly where Fred would stand on the issue of all this infighting. HunterNation.org, HunterNation.org I know you're Jordan, you're on it up there for Hunter Nation in the Upper Peninsula.
Jordan Hoover 47:08
Absolutley.
Keith Mark 48:40
You're like a dog on a bone, you're not gonna let him off the hook. And you know what, I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat or if you know, you've been teleported here from Mars, and you're some party we don't even know. But if you support our traditional American values, God, family, country, and our hunting lifestyle, you're our guy or gal. You know, that's the way we need to look at it. And you know, I don't know what we're gonna do, Richard, but guys like me and you, that got a little snow on the roof, and a lot of years of campfires behind us, we've got to make sure that this hunting population that we have in Michigan and all across this country wakes up and realize that if we don't step forward, if we don't make our voice heard, if we don't engage in the social issues of the day, politics, that the other side's going to win. Richard give you the last word here.
Richard P. Smith 49:37
Well, that's why I'm involved in legal action against the Natural Resources Commission over their poor decisions for deer managed in the Upper Peninsula hope, hopefully, to reverse those decisions. So that's what I'm doing.
Keith Mark 49:52
Jordan, I don't want to leave you out. What's your final take?
Jordan Hoover 49:57
You know, at the end of the day, I guess the cause near and dear to my heart, as you mentioned is you know, there's an age gap between us, Keith, and I'm not blind to that I see it at every stakeholder meeting I attend all across the great state of Michigan. That's trouble. What we've got to do and myself, I include myself in the statement, we've got to get out, we've got to unify people, we've got to pull our brothers up by the bootstraps and say, "You can't sit this out. You have to get in the fight" . We are not going to arbitrarily inherit a lifetime of goodness and fulfillment in the outdoors. We have to safeguard it.
Keith Mark 50:31
HunterNation.org fellas, HunterNation.org. And I'm sure that our President/CEO, Luke Hilgemann is paying close attention to what's going on up there. And anyway, Hunter Nation can help the hunters of Michigan, you know, they're gonna do it. But again, you know, what Hunter Nation is, fellas, you know what it is? It's the Jordans, the Richards the Josh, the Keith. The Susan's the Jeanies, the you know, pick a name, pick the person. We're all one Hunter Nation. If we join together. I am 100% positive, that we can be the difference makers in good sound wildlife policy going forward. Fellas, great information about what's going up going on up there in Michigan. Richard, where do they see where if people want to follow you and see your writing? What's the best place for them to find Richard P. Smith, I should add great, legendary Richard P. Smith, where they find your buddy.
Richard P. Smith 51:35
There's two Michigan publications; Michigan Outdoor News and Woods-N-Waters news that I write for regularly, occasionally Deer and Deer Hunting, Buckmasters, Whitetail magazine and they also publish a magazine called Rack magazine. Those places.
Keith Mark 51:53
Well I can't wait to see the articles you write about the travesty that's going on up there and Jordan if people up in Michigan want to be part of what you're doing up there in the U.P. on the on behalf of Hunter Nation other than going to HunterNation.org How do they reach you?
Jordan Hoover 52:09
They can reach me on Facebook I have a Facebook account just search Jordan Hoover. I'll be pretty obvious I'm the archer with the flannel on the other way they can contact me as they can call me at home I have a published home phone number which I'm happy to provide here that's 906 524 2258 they can call me at home with their comments their concerns, and I'll be happy to help.
Keith Mark 52:30
You know what it takes a lot of balls my friend to put your home phone number out there like that. But of course not everybody can sport a mohawk like you are and roll your sleeves up and hold these bureaucrats accountable. So God bless both of you fellas. Keep up the good fight. And those of you listening if you come back, we'll have a little bit of a close here, Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 52:52
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Keith Mark 53:28
Welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast and I don't know about you, Josh. But man, I am just flat pissed. What's going on up in Michigan?
Oh, no doubt I mean, I feel bad for the people of Michigan and, and the future generations of Michigan because I mean, hunter numbers are going to dwindle if there's nothing to hunt.
I just here's what drives me crazy. So the appointed bureaucrats are given all the facts, all the data, all the science, and they ignore it. And they follow some political bs agenda and shove that down the hunter's throats in Michigan. And as bad as that is, and that's bad. That's tragic. That's why I'm gonna use a legal term bullshit. Okay. But you know, what's worse than that? It's if the hunters of Michigan take it. How are we going to continue to take this? It just blows me away. Josh. I listened to these two gentlemen today with all the passion that our fellow hunters have, but with a step back, they have the data. They have the facts. They have the hours and years of boots in the field living where deer and wolves live. They've given all that information to their decision makers. And they don't do it.
Josh Ishmael 55:00
Right. And the bad thing, Keith is the public may not have all the data.
Keith Mark 55:05
That that is that is Hunter Nation's job. And again, I told you if you haven't gone to HunterNation.org and I know there's people out there going to be shilling for Hunter Nation. No, I'm not shilling for Hunter Nation. I'm shilling for the future of hunting and Traditional American Values in America. That's what I'm shilling for,
Josh Ishmael 55:26
and, and let hunters help themselves, right? Because, I mean, a few examples. I'm not I'll never be a spear Hunter. But they're still hunters. I mean, so I support them if it's legal and ethical,
Keith Mark 55:39
right?
Josh Ishmael 55:39
go spear hunt. You want to knife a hog in Oklahoma or Texas or whatever? I not for me, but God love you. Let's be a hunter. Not a I'm only a crossbow. I'm only a compound? No, we're hunters.
Keith Mark 55:53
Right? Well, here's the deal. And Ted Nugent, our national spokesperson said this on Tucker, that if you simply bend over and take it, well, that's what you're getting. And you know what? I'm optimistic. Josh. You know why? I'm optimistic because I know, I saw the data from what happened in 2020, and Hunter Nation because of their transparency., because of the way they disseminated information to rank and file hunters from their national spokesperson, Ted Nugent, who happens to be a Michigander, Craig Morgan, Mark Geist, Ralph and Vicki, Keith Warren, right on down the list, hunters actually were more informed than ever before. 460,000 of the hunters that had never participated in the voting process before because of Hunter Nation's proven strategy actually went to the polls, and cast their vote, we don't know for who. But what we know is they went to vote, their Traditional American Values of God, family, country, and their hunting lifestyle, which is enough for me, that's good enough for me. So I'm hoping that these boys, these warriors that we talked to today up in Michigan, that they do exactly what they said they're going to do, which is basically make sure the public hunting public and the non hunting public in Michigan is made aware of the travesty that's going on when it comes to wildlife conservation in Michigan. And they're going to do everything in their humanly possible power to make sure that hunters unite in Michigan and beat back these evil doers that want to destroy our hunting lifestyle. And you know what, Josh, we're gonna have him back on the show, because I'm gonna give him a chance to take a victory lap. Because after talking those two fellows today, and the passion they have, they're going to win, hunters are going to win in Michigan, Traditional American Values are going to win in Michigan, and this is a spark, that Hunter Nation is lighting all over this great country, we're going to hold our elected employees accountable for our traditional values. And of course, that always includes the hunting lifestyle. I hope you enjoyed the program today. And again, I'm going to shill one more time if that's what you think you got to go to HunterNation.org. You got to put your name on the list. You got to become a member. Join us at the Concord bridge as we try to defend and protect the rights of the American Hunter. Thanks for joining us. We'll be back next week with more Right On The Mark
Right On The Mark 58:25
Right On The Mark invites you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions. Copyright 2021
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Episode 18 featuring Gretchen Smith, Founder, Code Of Vets
Gretchen Smith is a United States Air Force veteran who grew up in a challenging environment. Her father was a Vietnam veteran who returned home struggling with complications from Agent Orange and PTSD. She joined the military to get structure and purpose in her life and it worked. After losing her father too soon, Gretchen founded “Code Of Vets” as a tribute to his memory. Today, Code Of Vets utilizes Social Media outlets to identify veterans with needs and then connects them with what they need. As a non-profit, Code Of Vets delivers 98% of the donations they receive directly to those families or veterans in need. Sadly, she says some Social Media sites are blocking her efforts and she now needs help more than ever.
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 18, featuring "Code Of Vets" founder Gretchen Smith, recorded July 2021, starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunter's lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hotheaded. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting, he's Keith Mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:45
Hi, this is Keith, Mark, and welcome back to another Right On The Mark podcast. And those of you that know me, and those of you that listen, know that I'm a huge supporter in the US military. In fact, when I visit my dad now for the last 15 years, I visit him at the military cemetery in Fort Leavenworth. So I grew up with military blood running through my veins. And, you know, Josh, you know, from the earliest age, I can remember, every time the flag would appear at a rodeo or an event, you know, you just your hand finds your heart, you know, and so I'm proud of that, and what world is going on with our country?
Josh Ishmael 1:23
You know, I don't know. But I know I was at a Fourth of July party not too long ago, and they had they presented the colors and actually played taps at the event. And it was very moving. And I made sure to talk to my kids, because they had no idea of what it was. And it was a great teaching moment. And just, I mean, that age group there was obviously older, but just to see the respect that everyone gave to the flag. And when they played taps, you could tell everyone was emotional.
Keith Mark 1:50
Right. You know, and when my dad passed away, I was good. The whole time, you know, heartbroken but strong. And then when we got to the actual military cemetery, and they played taps,
Josh Ishmael 2:03
Uh huh.
Keith Mark 2:04
You know, I mean, it just, you know, you know, it was just more than I could more than I could take. But, you know, and I commend you, right? Because it's going to take a generational passing of the torch, if you will, I mean, we must make sure that our young people because, Josh, I'm afraid in school, they're not getting this.
Josh Ishmael 2:21
They're not.
Keith Mark 2:21
We live in the greatest country in the world. Are we perfect? Absolutely not where we perfect when we founded the country. No. But every year for the last 245 years, we've worked to improve the greatest country in the world. And so, you know, I tell you, if you're listening, and you don't spend time with your kids, neighbor kids or anybody else, making sure they understand just how important it is that we support the US military, because without the US military, we wouldn't have these uniquely American freedoms that we have. And that leads me to I'm very excited today because one of my Twitter idols, you know, I have a Twitter crush, if you will, on our guest today. I mean, she has done some of the most amazing things for veterans. And she does it because it's a passion. I mean, I don't want to steal her thunder. But she's an Air Force vet, and just loves America and wants to give back to the veterans. "So if you guys stick around, my guest is the founder of "Code Of Vets. And you're going to love her. So stick around. We'll be right back with Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 3:30
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation. Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God family, country, conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org today.
Keith Mark 3:49
Welcome back. And with no further ado, I'd like to introduce my guest. She's an Air Force veteran. She's the founder of Code Of Vets. Gretchen Smith. Gretchen, welcome to the program.
Gretchen Smith 4:00
Thanks for having me, Keith. It's an honor to be here to share the mission of Code Of Vets.
Keith Mark 4:04
You know, I'm rarely tongue tied. But I may get tongue tied today because I mean, I am such a huge fan of you, personally, and such a huge fan of what you're doing. And I have so many things that I want to find out from you and I want to talk about, but I just want to start with, tell me about you. I mean, tell me about your upbringing. Tell me what led you to where you are before we get to where you are.
Well, I'm a mountain girl. I was born and raised in the mountains of North Carolina. Both sides of my family are from Haywood County, which butts up against the Tennessee line, raised very poor from a garden. You know, dad was a Vietnam vet. I spent a lot of time just with my mom. Dad had a lot of issues when he came back from the war. But I grew up with a huge heart for our flag, for the military. All of the men in our family served pretty much on both sides of the family. So, as I got older, and I didn't have a lot of opportunities available to me or not that I was aware of, I chose the military, I chose the Air Force as, as a way to start out my life. I and I'm going to tell you that, you know, there was a lot of dysfunction in my life growing up, and I embrace who I am and everything I've been through, because I don't think I'd be able to help the individuals, the veterans that I that I do now, if I didn't have the heart I have. So the hard times I've been through has really prepared me to be a helper. And that's how I see myself as I'm a servant of God. So I'm out there every day, you know, voice for the veterans, helping those who are downtrodden, broken in spirit. And it's such an honor to do it. Because I've been there myself. I know what it feels like not to have anything. I know what it feels like to struggle. In the Air Force gave me a stability, structure, discipline, just really shaped me into the the woman that I am today. And I owe it all to them. I'll tell you, I wasn't exactly healthy for the Air Force. But the Air Force was exactly what I needed. And I grew up there. I met my husband there. And it was amazing.
Let me ask you this, Gretchen, your'e throwing so much out there at us. It's incredible. How old were you when you got into the air force?
Gretchen Smith 6:11
18, I was 18 years old,
Keith Mark 6:12
Right out of high school?
Gretchen Smith 6:14
Yes. Oh, yeah.Absolutely.
Keith Mark 6:16
And I don't want to age you. But I mean, obviously, the number of women in the military continues to grow every year. I mean, so when you got in it was there wasn't as many women in the military as there are now and obviously, it's continued to grow. Ever doubt, your choice to join the military as a as a young 18 year old lady?
Gretchen Smith 6:42
Absolutely not. It was the best thing ever did. Were there challenges I've been, you know, one a few women? Yes, because I went to a career for a field where there wasn't a lot of women, I was a security specialist, security police. And I served back in '91. That's when I went into boot camp june of 1991. And served about four and a half years. And it there are some unique challenges that came with it. You know, and I had to learn and grow, you know, as a young female, how to navigate the you know, this male dominated world. And I did you know, in, you know, I fell on my face a few times, I made some mistakes, but I got back up and I kept moving forward. Because for me, going back wasn't an option. I was never going to go back to where I came from, I was going to make something of myself and I was using the military and everything that they were providing for me, the opportunities given to me, I was making the most of it.
Keith Mark 7:32
You know, I had somebody that served...had a lot of military friends, and actually some of our, we have mutual friends, like Mark Geist, and I'm sure many others, but I'm one of my military friends said that young people actually crave structure and discipline, and it's lacking in basically our modern day school system. It's more like, hey, if it feels good, do it. And people don't really realize the value of discipline and commitment. Did the discipline that the military offer help you?
Gretchen Smith 8:05
Oh, absolutely. I was floundering. I just was a very scattered young person. And I needed that, I needed the Air Force was my rock, it was my foundation, it provided that structure, and that discipline that I need, and you're right, we do crave that we may not know it at the time, but it's what I needed. And and I thrived in that environment. And I really was able to move beyond some of the dysfunction that I had been around and exposed to throughout my life. And I was able to just evolve into an incredible young adult, and I was able to start taking college classes and I ended up getting four degrees, you know, and I met and I chose a partner who was healthy for me. You know, I met him over in Ramstein, Germany. I mean, you know, Joe and I connected right away. We started dating.
Keith Mark 8:49
Was he in the Air Force?
Unknown Speaker 8:50
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, we met and, you know, at Ramstein Air Base. There was an immediate connection there. We started taking college classes together, very healthy for each other, going to the gym together. And just that, you know, we got married one year later. Yeah, our 27th anniversary is this month.
Keith Mark 9:08
Good for you.
Unknown Speaker 9:09
Yeah, it's a great fit. It was like, Yeah, very good fit for us
Keith Mark 9:11
You don't see that kind of commit. I just celebrated my 36th anniversary with Mrs. Mark. And, you know, again, you don't see a lot of people willing to make that commitment. I'm sure you're like me, it wasn't always easy. But you know, the one thing we wanted to make sure through the good times and the bad that we you know, we stuck stuck through it, you know, how long were you in the military?
Gretchen Smith 9:33
About four and a half years, Joe was in five and I was in four and a half I got out pregnant, and not knowing at the time, so I declined the insurance. So that's another unique, unique thing, what we went through. And you know, as a young female, getting out of the military, that transition is tough. Because you had that structure. You had that discipline, you had that camaraderie, and you get out and you're all you know, you're on your own again, and even though even though Joe and I were team at that point, we're married and you know, we tackle these issues together. It was still very unsettling not to have that structure around us. We had to figure out our daughter's pregnancy on our own because we didn't have the military. So that was we went we actually went hungry for a couple months we lived on hot dogs and you know, potatoes. Yeah, once one summer but we made it through and that I think that's one of the reasons why we're so strong Keith is because we we had some really serious issues as a young couple and instead of tearing us apart, it brought us together as a team.
Keith Mark 10:29
Yeah, Josh just kicked me under the table and it's like, what's wrong with hot dogs?
Josh Ishmael 10:33
Love hot dogs.
Gretchen Smith 10:37
Yeah, but that if that's the only thing that you have, you know, in your fridge you opening up your "Okay, hotdogs again". At least we had those. I'm not complaining.
Keith Mark 10:45
Look at him, look at him, haha.
Josh Ishmael 10:47
That's my nickname is "hotdogs".
Keith Mark 10:49
Listen, we're talking to Gretchen Smith. And, and we're gonna get to what I think is one of the finest charities out there. Certainly the one of the finest working with our veterans "Code Of Vets". But before we get there, I just want to make sure that me and Josh and our listeners understand the trail that led Gretchen to Code Of Vets and all she's doing now so if you stay tuned, we're gonna come right back with Gretchen Smith, and we're gonna continue her story and just a second.
Right On The Mark 11:20
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Colt still making history, pistols, rifles revolvers. Find the right Colt for you today by visiting Colt.com
Keith Mark 11:33
Welcome back. This is Keith Mark alongside, uff Joey Chestnut and a half maybe Joey Chestnut and two thirds over here to my right, Josh. Um, so uh, because I do follow you on Twitter and those of you that do not follow this young lady on Twitter, how do they find you Gretchen on Twitter if they want to follow you
Gretchen Smith 11:53
At Code Of Vets. Go find us and I read highly recommend that you start a Twitter account just the following Code Of Vets. We have veterans out there every day who are in true need who are in crisis, and you can assist, you can be digital boots on the ground.
Keith Mark 12:07
And we're gonna get all into that but Code Of Vets. Are you on Facebook?
Gretchen Smith 12:11
Yes, we are, Code Of Vets. Type it in.
Keith Mark 12:13
Code Of Vets.....Joey, even you
Josh Ishmael 12:17
Yeah, I can figure that one out. All one word, even though out- Code Of Vets.
Keith Mark 12:20
So, um, you know, because I follow you, and I just love your story. Tell me about your dad, tell me about your dad's service and how, basically, his plight has put you a little further down the trail to Code Of Vets.
Gretchen Smith 12:37
Well, dad was airborne infantry and served in Vietnam and came back a very troubled spirit. His behavior was chaotic on the outside. And I know it was a direct reflection of how he was feeling on the inside. You know, just recently spoken with some family at a reunion about dad and they just said he came back and he was totally a different man. He just was not himself and never was after that. Dad never did really make peace or find peace with what he did in the jungle, with what he witnessed than what you just just all the experiences that come with war. War is hell, we all know that. Dad, he did try to reach out to the VA, back in Asheville, North Carolina when he had first gotten out and was really struggling and went to the doctor and the doctor said, "you have something thats called shellshock. You need to suck it up and be a man and shove it way down deep". And you know what, that's not healthy for our veterans when they come back home from war. It's, that's, you know, we should be doing the exact opposite. We have made great strides, but during that era, I believe it was very common for them to be told that. So dad carried his battle, his journey as long as he could. He tried so hard, Keith, but in the end, we lost dad. And he just he was tired. One of my final conversations that really, you know, is the inspiration I prayed about as I sat down with dad and I was crying. I said, "Dad, what are you doing? I love you. We love you. We need you. You've got grandkids". And he looked at me and he's just had these big tears in his eyes and they just started streaming down his face. He said, "Gretchen, I'm tired". He said, "I'm done fighting. He said, they've won, I'm ready to go home". And he then he proceeded, you know, we talked a little bit and he said, "you see that gun over there". He said, "I'm not going to shoot myself because I love you kids. I'm not going to do it because you kids"z, he said "but you see that bottle, it's going to do the exact same thing". And it did. That was his plan. He used that bottle as a weapon. And he had very, he had some really serious medical issues from his exposure to Agent Orange, and the sugar in the alcohol kill dad and it just , for me when we say 22 veterans, you know, commit suicide every day. We're not including suicides like my dad's. My dad, he had a plan and he followed it through. And that was it was a suicide and in my family all acknowledge that it's just it's absolutely heartbreaking that we we did everything we could for dad, but in the end it was it was on him. It was his choice. And I just I share his journey, I share his story as a daughter as a veteran, because his his life mattered. I lost my dad was a hot mess, but he was my hot mess. I loved him so much. And I'm missing every day. And I just want our veterans to know out there that you don't, you don't have to walk this path alone. And it's when veterans isolate themselves, like dad would do for periods of time, he would push us all away. And just he would become a hermit. And he had brushes with homelessness at that time in his life. And it just, you know, he, he never, he never did get that help. And I really believe if a brother in arms would have reached out to him, Keith, we may have had a different story with Dad if somebody was sat down, said, "Brother. Yeah, I know what you're going through". Let's see what we can do to get you the help that you need.
Keith Mark 15:47
You know, and I don't think. That is a just tragic story. But I don't think that's an exception. I think there are so many of your dads out there. And when you think about it. Now, in the most recent decades, we have been at war. We, you know, for 20, how many plus 30 plus there were 40 plus years, you know, and so we have generations now, of soldiers that have been in the Middle East, that are dealing with the same things that you're dad dealt with, not the jungle, but the desert, you know, or urban warfare. I mean, how is it that we're the greatest country in the world, that somehow we lose sight of taking care of our vets when they come home?
Gretchen Smith 16:36
We do. We still haven't figured that one out. Because our number, our suicide numbers are so high right now, we were actually experiencing a surge this year and last year. But that's something we need to talk about as a nation, we need to take it seriously. This is a national crisis losing 20, roughly 22 a day, it could be 20 or 27. whatever number you attach to it, it's way too many. And there's so much going on.
Keith Mark 16:58
One is too many.
Gretchen Smith 16:59
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So we have we don't have the answer yet. And that's, that's why we need to highlight it. I think we need to have our veterans stories out there every day, we need to be talking about these suicides so that we're all aware of as a nation, we need to embrace our veteran community and say, hey, you're not alone. We honor what you have done for us, let us help you, let us get you to the resources that are available. Because there's so much out there, Keith, for our veterans who are struggling with PTSD, with TBI, with depression, with, you know, with addiction, with mental health issues. There's there's a ton of resources, it's just they need to be made aware of where they are in their local community, or we can fly them to wherever they need. I have found there's there's a common thread throughout a lot of our veteran community and its isolation, isolation is deadly. And once once they once they do that, that's the ones I'm concerned about. The ones who are reaching out to us, the Code Of Vets and other veteran orgs., we can assist them because that's a cry for help. They're reaching out. But the ones who are silent, the ones who have just, you know, blocked out the world, the family, the friends, and those are the ones that are on a very dangerous path. And those are the ones I'm praying that we can connect with. And to let them know you are not alone. You are not the only one to have walked this path to feel to feel all of these feelings that you're feeling. And there is help, there is hope, you can live an incredible beautiful life with PTSD and TBI. You just have to learn you have to learn the tools of how to manage it.
Keith Mark 18:34
You know, and not that I'm afraid to tackle political issues. And this certainly is a no particular party has the market cornered on this stupidity. But I just wonder in my own brain, and fill in the blank anyway, you want to: free blank for illegal people in our country, free blank for people that never served the country, free housing for fill in the blank. But we have so many veterans suicides. We have so many veteran homeless individuals. We have so many veteran families below the poverty line. We have so many veteran families without health care. So many veteran families in crisis mode. I mean, what would be your advice if there was anybody from the US government listening, how we should prioritize our giving free things away? When we have all this, you know, problems in the veteran community?
Unknown Speaker 19:42
Well, you know, I believe we should be veterans should be a priority in my heart, you know, as an as a veteran as an American citizen, what you know, we would not have the freedoms we have today without the men and women who have put on the uniform, put those combat boots on and you know, taken that oath. We are the most extraordinary nation on earth, and we need to treat our warriors as such. They do fall through the cracks. And I do feel like in many cases, they're put at the back of the line versus the front of the line. And it makes no sense to me. We have vouchers that once they you know, once they go state to state this voucher money, which is federal dollars that's allocated for veterans, these VA vouchers. This is what the some of these individual states are doing, are re-allocating these vouchers for illegals. If you if you have the family, you know, four, five children? Yeah, yeah.
Keith Mark 20:31
What? Wait a minute, wait a minute, my brain is too small. I didn't catcht that, say it again, Gretchen.
Unknown Speaker 20:37
We've heard we've personally witnessed and been on the phone and had discussions with veterans as advocates, you know, with these departments. And they are reallocating, we have specifically been told that they are reallocating vouchers that are that have been there for that are allocated for veterans. And they are reallocating them for illegals. And they said, Yes. It Yeah, if you weren't illegal, if you had kids, you would be getting this voucher. But because you are a veteran, you're not. It's absolutely mind blowing. We have this specific case in New York. I mean, we assist veterans all over the country. But one veteran, you know, it's really stands out to me, Robert, we've assisted him many times came across him. And he was, you know, he was homeless at the time going through a really rough divorce. And we had sent him to the department to go and get a voucher. And they pretty much told him, and you know, you need to go to a shelter and then come back and apply. But they have also told him if you if you are illegal, you would be getting a voucher. But but because they had moved the vouchers from veterans to to illlegals specifically. My partner was on the phone and listened to this discussion. I was just floored when she shared with me this information. And this is not an isolated case. This is something that goes on in our country every day.
Keith Mark 21:54
How far do they think that they can push good people, especially, you know, our veterans, it's just crazy. And I wonder, and I promise you folks, when we come back from the next break, I have one other thing I want to talk to Gretchen about before we get deep into Code Of Vets, which we're going to right after the break. But you know right now, it appears to me that there is a huge anti-American sentiment from some corners of our country, including some corners of our political leadership. They kneel, they kneel for the flag, they burn the flag. They're disrespecting not only our law enforcement, but our military vets. I mean, we've gone, taken huge steps backwards. Do you see this anti American sentiment leading to more problems that you're having to deal with as somebody who's really trying to help these people now?
Gretchen Smith 22:52
Oh, yeah, yeah, I try not to talk about it too much. You know, on Twitter, you know, because we're a nonprofit, and I am I am bipartisan, I help any, you know, whatever veteran comes our way. Regardless of what side of the aisle we assess, we take donations from both sides of the aisle. But I am going to say that, you know, given the atmosphere and the division in our country, I do believe it plays a role in the increase in this surge that we are feeling with this, the suicide rate and our veterans are crushed by this division because they have served overseas to make sure that the things that we are actually seeing our country like last year with all the rioting, we never thought we would see that on our soil. That's why they had gone overseas to make sure that they could keep us safe from that and to keep it you know, away from our our children, our cities, our homes. And just for all of that to come to you know, now it's in our country, all of this division and hate and anti patriotism, anti America. It's just it's it's soul crushing. It's gut wrenching.
Keith Mark 23:53
I just don't think it I just don't think it bodes well for our country, but I feel terrible for our veterans when they have to watch on the nightly news people saying that you know that American never was great that our flag isn't worth standing for. If our flags not we're standing for these veterans at home has to be wondering why did I fight for it? Why did I lose a limb for it? Why do I have PTSD for it? I mean, it's just boy I tell you we are we are setting up a scenario that I just don't think the country can stand for much longer.
Gretchen Smith 24:32
Exactly when you have buddies come home under a flag draped coffin you know my dad did a lot of our veterans here in the past 20 years because we've been at war for 20 plus years. When you come home and that flag is sacred. There are no words to describe and bringing your your brother in arms home under a flag draped coffin and you'll it's something you'll never get over the you know some of them question Why me that You know, survivor guilt. But for now, now we're seeing all of this, this push against the flag in it, you know, our country is not great and they're, it's mind blowing, I can't begin to tell you how sacred Old Glory is. We need to be there for each other. We need to stand up for our flag, because we have sacrificed our lives, our blood, our limbs, our peace of mind, our soul, for our freedoms, and it's sacred. Our country is sacred. Our freedoms are sacred. And we need to come together and unify Keith, because if not, I agree with you. I don't know how much more of this we can withstand.
Keith Mark 25:39
Well, ladies and gentlemen, those are very passionate words from Gretchen Smith. She's an Air Force veteran. She's the founder of Code Of Vets. Now, we've talked about some of the problems, some of the obstacles but Gretchen, you are not the type of person to just talk and not act. I mean, you recognize the problem. And you are solving that problem through Code Of Vets. Will you stick around for another break? When we come back? Will you tell our listeners all about Code Of Vets and what you're doing to rectify some of these wrongs?
Gretchen Smith 26:12
Absolutely.
Keith Mark 26:13
Stay tuned. We'll be right back with I mean, my Twitter hero Gretchen Smith of Code Of Vets.
Right On The Mark 26:19
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak at Mossy Oak a life Outdoors is in your DNA. Shop their incredible pattern selection and more at MossyOak.com. Mossy Oak, feed your obsession.
Keith Mark 26:36
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And Josh, I mean, you're a young guy, and obviously you didn't serve in the military, and neither did I. How's this grabbing you today, buddy?
Josh Ishmael 26:47
Well, I mean, the number one thing I've thought the whole time is like, What? What do you picture when you see the flag? And for me, it's the World War Two, that Iwo Jima where they're, they're sticking the flag and and when you talk about burning the flag and all disrespecting, that's the first thing that always pops in my mind is just that picture. And she talks about the coffins draped in the flag. And it's like, how could you ever disrespect that? Yeah, ever?
Keith Mark 27:11
Yeah.I mean, you know, but you were raised right. And I guess it's all of our jobs, Gretchen that, you know, we get this message out there that that the flag represents more than fabric. It represents really the moral fiber, the core, the soul of this great nation, you know, America? Well, we promised the listeners that we've taken you down a trail from very humble upbringing to, you know, finding yourself in the airforce to meet your husband of you know, many decades now. And and you also talked about how our veterans have been left behind in a lot of ways. And when you recognized this through what you live through with your dad. You did something about it. Tell us about it.
Gretchen Smith 27:59
I started a Twitter page. And I called it Code Of Vets. And what I did is I wanted to honor dad and talk about his journey. And it exploded. It just really resonated within the veteran community veterans began sharing their stories, their journeys, and said Gretchen, I either was on that path that your dad was on, or that's where I'm at now. And they, you know, began sharing their needs. And I quickly just discovered there was there was a true need for a veterans org out in the social media world. These platforms are powerful Keith, and so it just naturally evolved. And I brought in a partner. Her name's Dr. Cindy Walter, she has a PhD in public health. She's a professional veteran advocate has been since 2004. She brought a wealth of knowledge to Code Of Vets, and we became an nonprofit back in 2018, one year after the Twitter page started. And it just, you know, the veterans started applying, you know, she started vetting the veterans and doing some case management and it just grew and it's exploded and we we have a broad reach. We assist veterans in every state of the country because of the way we operate. And not only that, but we can keep our operating costs low because her and I are both volunteers. It's a passion for us. It's a ministry it's a mission. And you know, we we give 98% we operate on a shoestring budget. 2% I'm hardcore
Keith Mark 29:19
98% Josh said this earlier. 98 cents of every dollar it's poured right into the veterans needs.
Gretchen Smith 29:26
I'm proud of that. I am very proud of that.
Keith Mark 29:29
That is absolutely incredible. And you know, as I as you know, I follow you daily. Um, I see that you are assisting male, female, white, black, tan, all political affiliation veterans, right?
Gretchen Smith 29:48
Yeah, our Vet Need form is is simple, you know, we just need to know you know, what your needs are, when you served, you know, then we they, our vets have to provide their their DD214 you know, for proof of service, Cindy vets the situation that they're in the crisis or the need. And then she sends them out to me. I put them out on Twitter one veteran at a time. And last year we assisted 2000 veterans with $2.7 million. It just once those missions go out, and and, and people share them and retweet them and repost them. That is the key to the success of Code Of Vets. It's not about Cindy and I, it's literally about a team of Americans and veterans across the country, sharing those particular missions to get those funds raised so that we can secure that vet and it's not about the money, Keith, it's about giving that veteran hope. It's about letting them know that we care that your service matters and that we're you know, we've somebody here, we've got your back, you're not going through this alone. I mean, it's just amazing what we're able to accomplish as a team working across the country on social media, it's powerful.
Keith Mark 30:57
How many... It's incredible. How many veterans did you help last year?
Gretchen Smith 31:01
Roughly 2000. We had right around 3500 apply, we assisted 2000 of them with 2.7 million. And that was with Cindy and I going 100% hardcore seven days a week.
Keith Mark 31:13
If you hadn't raised more money, okay, if there was more benevolence, your message had gotten out there. Obviously, you could have helped more.
Gretchen Smith 31:24
Yes,yeah. The way we have it set up, it's very streamlined. We can we can help more veterans, it's just, you know, the money as you there are so many there's 20 plus million veterans out there. And we are a small org when you think about it, it's Cindy and I and we have a you know, very small team underneath us doing us some simple things, but it's Cindy and I are basically Code Of Vets. So it's, we could do more, but
Keith Mark 31:48
Tell the listeners the type of help you give these veterans, it ranges from what to what,
Gretchen Smith 31:54
Oh, gosh, from buying a pair of shoes for a veteran, you know, if they need a pair of shoes, groceries, food in consistencies has been an issue because of, you know, COVID with the restrictions and all the job loss over the past year and a half. We do utilities, disconnects, evictions, foreclosure, forbearance, auto repos. And we've also taken on funeral expenses for veterans who are unclaimed or have committed suicide and the family may not have the funds, you know, and there's no insurance policy, they don't have the funds to cover the funeral expenses that we have taken that on and we've actually got some funeral directors who follow Code Of Vets now. So when they get an unclaimed veteran, they'll contact us and, and I'm like, heck, yeah, we'll claim my brother in arms, you know, and within, within 24 to 48 hours, I can raise enough funds to cover that particular veteran, whatever state they're in, because that's the power of social media. And that's the trust that we've built. And you know, and I pay the funeral home directly, post the receipt for everybody to see so that there's you know, transparency, there's no question about where it's going. And it's just an incredible way to honor our veterans who who are falling between the cracks who may not have family and are unclaimed, we can claim them. Our nation and veteran community, we can claim our brothers and sisters,
Keith Mark 33:10
Surely you know, you're doing God's work.
Gretchen Smith 33:13
It is God's work. And it again, I consider it a mission, a ministry and I've never been more fulfilled in my life. Aside from when I had my two children. It's it's something a paycheck could never cover how I feel when I make that phone call to pay for that veterans funeral, or when I get a phone call, I have to share this quickly. And I had a veteran, DM me a message and said, "Hey, Gretchen, can you call me?" He gave me his phone number. And I called and he said, "You don't know my name. And it's not important." And he said last year, I was sitting at the kitchen table and you saved my life. He said I had a gun in one hand. And I had a phone in the other and he said my phone vibrated. And he said I reached down and I because the you know it vibrated. That was a tweet from Code Of Vets. And I pressed on that tweet and pulled it up. It was a tweet about hope. And he said, I started reading the replies through that tweet. And he said, I was going through a heck of a divorce. I didn't think I was ever going to see my boys again. And I was feeling low as dirt. And he said I was going to kill myself. And he said that I chose differently that day because of your posts about how that's powerful.
Keith Mark 34:21
Beyond powerful.
Gretchen Smith 34:23
It's a God thing. It's a God thing. And you know was that words can touch someone's heart, it can motivate them, it can give them the strength to take that next step forward to get them out of that dark moment. And that that's what kind of that is is you know, not only do we assist with groceries or light bill, or a car payment or a funeral expense, but we assist with the heart and with the soul. And I think that's really the key to us helping each other in the veteran community is being there for each other in those moments saying you're not alone. There's hope we can get through this together.
Keith Mark 34:56
Ladies and gentlemen that are listening though. Those of you that listen to this podcast regularly know that we're all about God, family and country here. If that doesn't touch your heart that this organization goes everywhere from providing a pair of shoes to a veteran in need to saving the lives of veterans like Gretchen just told that story. And the only way she can do it, the only way she can buy a pair of shoes or keep somebody's, electricity from being cut off or putting food in the pantry is the benevolence of those of us that have been blessed, honest to goodness just been blessed with having a little more than less. And so Gretchen, I'm asking everybody that's listening right now that your story has touched them to please help you with your mission. Obviously, prayers are greatly appreciated, but boy, money is needed. And how do they get to you? How do they get money? And how would they donate to this not for profit, unbelievable organization called Code Of Vets? How would someone get to you to pay you to donate to you to help you resourcefully with with the funds,
Gretchen Smith 36:15
Go to CodeOfVets.com there's a donate link there. Again, we operate on 2% it's about veterans. This platform is for veterans, by veterans, about veterans, we honor veterans every day. It's It's my heart. It's It's my dad's legacy. So please get out there and give out there's merchandise all proceeds if you want to help share the mission and get it off of Twitter and Social Media and out into the real world buy a shirt all the proceeds goes to the veterans in crisis or veterans in need. Buy a hat, by tumbler, drink your coffee from a tumbler share Code Of Vets, you know, people ask you about it. You know, it's a it's a great name. It's a catchy name. It's why you know, I chose it. And it's just it's it's heartfelt. It is a heartfelt mission. It's a god mission. It's worthy and and if you can't give, start a Twitter page and repost it just start retweeting these missions because we are touching lives in real time and being there in those moments when they need us the most.
Keith Mark 37:15
Well, I'm KeithMarkMRA on Twitter, and I tried to repost you know all the stuff that you do because you never know when that repost might reach somebody that reaches somebody, and maybe that's the guy that has the gun in his hand. And, and I just would tell you folks that are listening, you know, I try not to shill and just say please, but I'm saying please now, your $10 might be the difference. And Gretchen, you've moved me so much that as soon as we get off of here today, I'm going to donate $1,000 to Code Of Vets because I so much believe in what you're doing. I think, again, I text you and and I reach out to you on Twitter and my common phrases are God's work and you're special. And both of those are true. I really admire you. I think what you're doing is incredible. You're a wonderful woman. You're a great patriot. You're exactly what this country needs. And God has you exactly where you should be right now. And I commend you and I thank you.
Gretchen Smith 38:21
Thank you, Keith. I appreciate it. No words. I it's an honor. It's an absolute honor to be out there being a voice for veterans every day.
Keith Mark 38:30
You know, Gretchen we're past the time you allowed for us, will you stick around for one more segment because I want to touch on one other topic before we let you go.
Gretchen Smith 38:38
Yes, absolutely.
Keith Mark 38:40
Stay tuned. We're going to come back with my favorite Twitter person Gretchen Smith, Air Force veteran, founder of Code Of Vets.
Right On The Mark 38:49
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Carlson choke tubes. Find out what makes Carlson the shooters choice by visiting them at choke tube.com and start getting better patterns today. Carlson choke tube
Keith Mark 39:05
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And I mean, what an incredible guest we have today. Gretchen Smith, Air Force veteran, Mom, wife, you know, just Patriot Deluxe founder of Code Of Vets. And you know, Gretchen as awesome of a job that you do for I mean, what's controversial about helping vets and you help everyone that you have the financial resources to help, you would help more if you had more resources, but you know, on Twitter all the time, I'm seeing you fighting with people that, you know, we call haters these days. What, what? To explain that to me,
Gretchen Smith 39:44
I don't I don't either it drives me crazy and, and I have almost walked away. But you know, I calm down but you know, I'm so heart driven and I run on emotion. So I take I take Code Of Vets very personal. It's a personal journey. For me, this is not a paycheck. So when these people out here are hating or bashing what we do, and we do make mistakes, I'm not gonna you know, every organization, we, we all make mistakes, but we learn from them, we get back up and we keep pushing forward. And then we keep revising, you know, our vetting process or whatever it is what we need to focus on to get better, we are very good at what we do, but we're not perfect. And so there are some people out there who like to, you know, drag you when you do make a mistake, or they say, Oh, my gosh, you know, what is this? Why do you help this person? Or why don't you help me? It's just we triage our cases, we try to touch as many veterans lives as we can. But you know, we do have limited resources and funds. And we see all they can
Keith Mark 40:47
I see people making it personally with personal with you. And it almost seems political. You know, it's like, if they're anti flag, anti American, anti military, it's like, how dare you help those people out? What?
Gretchen Smith 41:02
Yeah, I know, I've also been labeled, you know, as an extremist, you know, because of my conservative beliefs and values. But I have to say that I, you know, I try really hard to keep Code Of Vets bipartisan, but my personality does come through. But what I try to tell people, you know, is, "Hey, I voted for President Obama, I voted for President Clinton, I became a conservative when I heard the America first agenda back in 2006, early 2016. I'm like, Oh, my gosh". My husband, I like we're on board with that. That makes sense. It's for all Americans, it's gonna raise us all up not just specific groups in the country. It was good for all American, my husband has been in the manufacturing industry. So to hear a businessmen, President Trump talk about, you know, fair trade, reciprocal trade, trade that makes sense. And aluminum and steel, you know, has was dumped in our country since, you know, cents on the dollar. My husband saw it, you know, up close and personal, and how it devastated that, you know, that industry. Oh, my gosh, we were totally on board. So
Keith Mark 42:06
I look at it like this, right. I don't care whether you're white, black or green. You know, I don't care if you're a Republican, a Democrat or a Klingon. My I support those controversial ideas like God, family, country, my law enforcement community, the 10 Commandments, the Bill of Rights, I mean, all those pro Second Amendment, all those, like really controversial things. So I am an extremist. I'm an extremist for my country. I'm an extremist for the Constitution.
Gretchen Smith 42:46
Yes, how's the American way of life extremists. I you know, that's what God country duty, you know, the American way of life, the American dream, I grew up in poverty, I carved out, I created my own version of the American dream, because this is the land of opportunity.
Keith Mark 43:02
But Gretchen, it's only because you're you're you're of a certain skin color could you succeed. When I assure you in mind, I have friends of all races, all religions, all political parties. And I didn't realize that I wasn't supposed to be friends with some of these people, until mainstream media told me Oh, my goodness, didn't you realize they're not the same religion? They're not the same color. They're not the same gender? Oh, by the way, one of my closest friends was born in Kiev, Russia. And I'm not supposed to be friends with him Really? No. I think by and large, the propaganda that we're getting through the media these days is well, I'm going to use a technical legal term because I'm a lawyer, bull(beep) because I think people generally are good. Americans are better. I think by and large Americans are colorblind. Now, are there bad people on all sides of the spectrum? Yes. There's bad everywhere you look from teachers, to cops to priests, the ministers to firemen to sidekicks on podcasts, right? No offense, Josh. But I mean, you know what, but by and large, America has distinguished itself over time, because we do strive to do better we do strive to give, we are the land of opportunity, and I just... these haters that want to divide us, and you know, I started an organization Gretchen called Hunter Nation. And my whole idea behind Hunter Nation is to unite hunters. I see all this infighting, and then that turns into apathy, but it's bow hunters fight and gun hunters fight and long distance hunters fighting traditional hunters. And then in the end, who wins? It's the anti hunters that win. The more they can get hundreds to fight amongst themselves and then just not participate, then they win. And that's what's going on in America today, the more infighting that anti American sentiment has the anti Americans win because we devour ourselves from the inside. Your thoughts.
Gretchen Smith 45:09
That's right, divided we fall. We have, you know, we I believe the average American citizen, we bleed red, white, and blue, we love each other, we are a melting pot, we are going incredible nation of opportunity. We, you know, land of the free. And we just need to uphold these values that because they're being smashed, we're being dismantled, and we're being, you know, segregated into groups. And we have to push back against that, because that is not America, that's not who we are, you know, I look at people and judge on the basis of character and heart, I can care less about your skin color, I don't care if for me, it doesn't matter. It doesn't play any kind of role in how I function or operate as an org or as a human being. And I just, I love my nation, and I'm proud of my nation, I'm proud of the veteran community because we've all put that uniform on. And we are a brotherhood and a sisterhood. I consider every single one for every single person who served my brother and sister in arms, we're family, and we're a great microcosm of the country, we are a melting pot within the military community. And so I'm proud of who we are. And we just need to talk about that more and just use common sense, the media, their mission is propaganda. And it really is they're destroying us. That's what they're trying to do. But we are smart enough. We are all intellectual, you know, intelligent adults, we can see what is happening, why they're doing it. They're trying to push a radical socialist globalist agenda with open borders. And we have to say, No, that's not what we want. That's not who we are. We're a sovereign nation. We are you we believe in our freedoms, you know. And we just as I say, I believe in uniting I believe that if we sit down and talk to each other, we're going to find how much in common that we actually have.
Keith Mark 46:57
Last topic. Social media, banning conservative ideas and thoughts. The only way you find veterans that need help is through social media. The only way you can reach out and communicate to some of these people that don't have any communications is through social media. Yet, it seems to me that some, you know, groups like yours are being trying to find the right word. But certainly, your speech is being curtailed by big tech. Am I right on that?
Gretchen Smith 47:33
Oh, 100% suppressed, censored, you name it. During January, we lost 81,000 veterans, followers, donors, I lost my biggest donor. She had donated $720,000. Plus, they removed her account, she was a very small account. She was there for Code Of Vets. So you know, I've lost a lot of elderly veterans who that the Code Of Vets became their family and support system and I would message them they would message me my partner, other veterans just to check in when they are or in times of, you know, when they are having a dark moment, and now have no idea where they're at. It has...
Keith Mark 48:08
Let me stop you, Gretchen. So what do you mean, you lost those followers like this, this donor? You said, I lost her, what did they do to that account?
Gretchen Smith 48:20
They removed her account, they shut it down. We text now she will we stay in touch via text, but she can't follow what I'm doing on Twitter, they took her they removed her account, just like with a lot of our elderly veterans, who you know, started to depend on Code Of Vets, we became their family, it's insane. I have no idea where they are I can't get ahold of them. Because I am a social media organization. That's how we function. That's how we operate is out there in that world. So when we're punished for being conservative, so to speak, or having, you know, family values, God, duty, country, it actually harms people in real life. I cannot begin to tell you it. Oh, it devastated our organization, the first few months of this year, our our donations were down. We lost all of those followers. And you know, a lot of them were vets. And I've been very concerned about them. And they're it's just had, I can't wrap my mind around why they would punish us like that. And that's what they're doing.
Keith Mark 49:20
And so they're talked about orwe talked about earlier how if you're listening, you can help go to CodeOfVets.com. Donate. But if you're on social media and Twitter, follow Code Of Vets. If you follow Code Of Vets, and you see Gretchen or her team post something, especially about a veteran in need, or a new mission that they've taken over, retweet her, get that out there because then she'll find more these people will come back, maybe and follow her if their accounts are still active, but they've just stopped that, you know, Twitter is just for whatever reason dropped followers. I've lost since 2016 when I actually openly got involved in politics. I went from 25,000 followers now to down to 12,000 and some followers. And I have people that say, I, over the Fourth of July, give you this great example, I posted a very pro American post. My two boys were with me, one of them my post showed up on their timeline. And the other one it did not, never came out.
Unbelievable,
Right? So I know what goes on. And, you know, if somebody wants to silence me, you know, okay, so be it. But we cannot have Gretchen Smith and Code Of Vets silenced. Ladies and gentlemen, we've got to make sure that these veterans are out that are out there that need help. Need a pair of shoes, need to someone to talk to them and tell them put the gun down. Put the bottle down. This young lady is helping Code Of Vets. I encourage you to follow her on Twitter, go to CodeOfVets.com see what they're all about. Read about it. If it touches your heart like her stories have touched me today. Donate. But if you can't donate, pray for the Code Of Vets missions, and repost them. So maybe somebody else that's in a better position can actually help Gretchen, you're a wonderful human being. I'll reiterate the two buzz words that I use catch phrases that I use with you, you're doing God's work. And you are a special individual. And I really appreciate you joining us today.
Gretchen Smith 51:25
Thank you. It's been an honor.
Keith Mark 51:27
Stick around, ladies and gentlemen. We'll be back Josh and I have just a couple of thoughts to wrap the show up here on Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 51:35
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Keith Mark 51:54
Josh, I don't know about you, buddy. But I just I love my country. And to spend a little bit of time with someone like Gretchen that just loves this country. And the Warriors that put it on the line for us
Josh Ishmael 52:07
What blows my mind is I'm going through their Facebook and they donated $1,000 for someone that was getting evicted or $2,000 for someone to get out of temporary housing, where hotels for someone that's going to go have a surgery from a wound or something and the negative that comes out and your like, "How could you be mad at someone for they're helping 2000 people"? That's five and a half people a day that they're helping every day? And you're going to be mad? Because...what?
Keith Mark 52:36
Right? Well, I mean, it's like being on the wall of the Alamo. And you just shot three straight people. And the guy next to you goes, you didn't shoot the right guy. Well, I shot the closest three. Kiss my (BEEP)you know, and so I do admire Gretchen. And you know, I do see on on social media that that some of this does get to her. And you can imagine, you know, you see honestly firsthand what we're doing with Hunter Nation, and some of the negatives. And I just think that those of us that love this country more than ourselves, those of us that recognize that our US military is the only reason that we get to do what we do. It's almost like sometimes we just have to put blinders on. And just once we know what we're doing is right, and that young lady is doing right, like beyond, right. And, you know, I pray for her every day that the Code Of Vet's mission and these other veteran organizations like you know, Shadow warriors project with our friend, Mark Geist for the contractors, and there's a lot of good veteran organizations out there, but I'll tell you, there's none better than Code Of Vets. Josh.
Yeah, no, for sure. CodeOfVets.com go there and you can donate and or buy apparel or anything, anything helps for them. And, you know, it goes a long way and and the cool thing is, you know, it goes to the veteran, right? He goes straight to the vets.
Yeah. And you know, as we close today, I just, you know, I just want to point out again, I just ask every one of you just take a couple seconds out of every day and just say a simple thank you for the Warriors all the way back from the Bridge At Concord to those that are coming home right now. Some in flag draped coffins and some with all the imperfections that humans have but boy give thanks to the US warriors in the US military and those that have you know, sacrificed and some give it all so we can remain the greatest, freest nation in the world. Come back again. Next week and we'll have another Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 54:36
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2020
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Episode 17 featuring Kyle Crickenberger & Coyote Contests
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 17, recorded July 2021, featuring Kyle Crickenberger starts right now.
He is hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things God family country and hunting these keys mark and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 0:44
Hi, this is Keith Mark and I got my sidekick with me again today Josh Ishmael cam and, and I'll tell you, I'm kind of excited for today's show him actually Josh is you know, I'm excited every day I get up you make fun of me because I say it's the greatest sun sunrise I've ever seen in the greatest sunset. And that's kind of how I see the world but
Josh Ishmael 1:02
I only see the sunsets. Laughter.
Keith Mark 1:06
Okay, Joey Chestnut. Laughter
You know, what's exciting for me today is we're just talking to just a fellow Hunter. I mean, this is like the campfires that you and I and Shawn shared for many, many years with when we were filming McMillan river adventures and I love just hearing what our fellow hunters are thinking from all over the country. And we're going to talk to one of our Hunter Nation friends from Virginia, the awesome state of Virginia, home of George Washington, you know, Kyle Cricken burger is his name, '
Josh Ishmael 1:38
An average joke. I mean, like you'd kind of put it as average Joe but loves coyote hunting, nighttime coyote hunting, they have very good pro coyote hunting laws where you can do it at night. You can do thermals, you can do it at night vision, whatever you got to do just to get the job done.
Keith Mark 1:54
Yeah. So I'm really curious to see what's going on in Virginia in the hunting world. And we'll just talk to rank and file guy it's gonna be fun about it. I love it. Alright, stay tuned. We've got Kyle Crickenburger, just a hunting fool from Virginia, and he's gonna be right on the mark here in just a second.
Right On The Mark 2:13
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation. Hunter nation defends all of our traditional American values, God family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting Hunter nation.org today.
Keith Mark 2:31
All right, with no further ado, I want to introduce hunter nation friend of ours Kyle Crickenburger from Virginia. Welcome to Right On The Mark Kyle.
Kyle Crickenberger 2:42
Hey, how you doing? Thanks for having me, guys.
Keith Mark 2:44
You know, I'm just I'm intrigued with what my fellow hunters are thinking about all across the
You know, back when we were filming McMillan river adventures on the outdoor channel, I would spend 150 to 200 nights a year, all over this great country sitting around campfires, and just talking to hunter sharing hunting stories, bitching about things that they thought weren't going right in the country or in the hunting world or otherwise. And, you know, basically just just kicking it. And that's what we're hoping we can do with you today. So here, you've got some pretty good hunting stories, all the way back to when you were the old age of two and a half when you started hunting. Is that true?
Kyle Crickenberger 3:30
Yes, sir. That's correct. My, my dad had me in the woods when I was two and a half years old. And he used to wrap me up in the blanket and take me down in the deer woods. And I've been infatuated with with hunting, you know, at a very young age and was a big deer and turkey hunter most of my life. And then as I became a teenager, I transitioned over into the predator hunting and the coyote hunting world and really dived into that deep and I guess you could say that I was intrigued with it from the aspect of helping out the local farmers and, you know, hunting coyotes because of how elusive you know, they were and it was it was just it was a new, you know, exciting challenge as far as is hunting. And... I've been doing it for quite some time now, I guess you could say for close to 15 years
Keith Mark 4:25
Awesome.
Kyle Crickenberger 4:26
It's a it's a fast pace board and it's very fun.
Keith Mark 4:30
Yeah, it is and you know, you know, predator hunting, it gets kind of a bad rap. You know, I think there's so many people outside of the hunting world that look at coyotes and look at bears and look at Fox and look at, you know, other predatory animals as little cute, cuddly stuffed toys. And so when they hear hunters talking about we need to manage the bear populations or we need to manage the wolf populations or we need to manage...fill in the blank of a number of these, you know, predators, and you have these people that are like, "Oh my gosh, why do you hunt those, you don't eat coyotes, you don't eat wolves." And they just don't understand the North American model of conservation. And you mentioned earlier that one of the things that, you know, kind of drives you as you realize that you're doing a great service to your local farmers and, and livestock operators, right.
Kyle Crickenberger 5:28
Absolutely, I think what tends to happen a lot of times with predator control, or, you know, predator management is, is you you get anti hunting groups or organizations that they, they believe that predator management is not a necessary tool, and that it is more about killing, than hunting. And that is just so far from the truth. And, you know, that's, that's just kind of what I, what I'd like to talk about today, you know, just just try to inform people that, you know, aren't aware of the importance of predator management, you know, and why, why it is a necessit.
Keith Mark 6:14
Well preach, brother Kyle, you're here around the Right On The Mark campfire, it's a area that you're hitting the all the points right on the head of the nail. I mean, tell folks why predator management is such an essential part of managing all wildlife, whether it's the rabbit population, whether it's the deer, the elk, depending on the state you live in the moose, the antelope, the grouse, so on and so forth. We'll talk about that for a second.
Kyle Crickenberger 6:40
Sure, well, I mean, you know, to cover, you know, in a nutshell, what we have in Virginia, I would consider the coyote here, you know, our apex predator, as far as our game animals, you know, and if they aren't being managed, or or hunted, you know, the populations are just going to continue to grow. And that's when you're going to start finding more livestock attacks, you're gonna start having more coyotes move into urban areas where there has been documented, you know, pet attacks, or, you know, where children had been attacked, you know, shoot more human encounters, you know, that they have no natural predator, you know, outside of humans. So, it's our responsibility as conservationists and hunters to manage that species of animal, just like we, you know, manage the deer population, the wild turkey population, you know, the quail population, so on and so forth. You know, it is it is very important, you know, that we don't just manage, you know, the prey species, but the predator species as well.
Keith Mark 7:52
Right on and I agree with you, let's give the listeners just a little bit of a lesson about the coyote population in Virginia. Of course, I live in Kansas, we've had coyotes forever. Josh did some looking online, how many counts we have in Kansas?
Josh Ishmael 8:09
Like 300,000
Keith Mark 8:10
300,000, counts and cans were overrun with him. And, you know, we have to consciously on my farm, get out and do our predator management, responsibility and shoot coyotes. Now in Kansas, we can also hunt at night. And so we take that obligation seriously. But at this point, if you would, if we took a year off of hunting coyotes in Kansas, that population would explode to numbers that would just be impossible to get the genie back in the bottle. So when did coyotes give or take first make their way into the Commonwealth of Virginia?
Kyle Crickenberger 8:48
The late the late 70s, early 80s, you know,
Keith Mark 8:53
Are we talking in the 1970s, and 80s, are we talking George Washington? 1700?
Kyle Crickenberger 8:58
No, no.
Keith Mark 9:00
Wow. 1980 1970 you start getting coyotes. And Josh, how many? What's the population in Virginia now?
Josh Ishmael 9:09
Well, 50,000 is what the DNR sets.
Keith Mark 9:12
So your DNR says there's about 50,000 coyotes in your state. So in a span of roughly 50 years, they've gone from nothing to 50,000. That's that isan incredible explosion of the coyote population in Virginia.
Kyle Crickenberger 9:28
It is and you know, that is we have never our DWR has never actually done any scientific studies to any extent to really know if that 50,000 you know, figure is even accurate. So we truthfully don't know what what the population is and to be quite frank, myself and a lot of the other coyote hunters here in Virginia, believe that, you know, that number is in fact much larger than that, for the simple fact that, you know, we are the guys that are in the field all the time. And I understand that, you know, every state now has an agency and they have their biologists that do, you know, their studies and their scat samples, you know, a middle trap a few coats here and there, but you just can't collect real hard data from from small studies like that, you know, if, if you would, if they would be willing to take the hunters that are in the field for five days or nights a week, you know, from year to year, and, and take some of their input some of their data, you know, that they would see that the numbers have been on the rise for the last 15 years, you know, just at a rapid rate, and
Keith Mark 10:49
Giving them the benefit of the doubt at 50,000. And if they're wrong, and you're correct, and your fellow hunters that are in the field regularly, put that number, something considerably higher than 50,000. Well, obviously, the state of Virginia needs to be concerned about managing that population. You agree?
Kyle Crickenberger 11:09
Absolutely. You know, and and this is one thing, you know, a couple, a couple points that I would like to, you know, cover just, you know, give some people some background, you know, if, if predator management was not an important asset, in why would each state and government agencies be spending millions of dollars every year on predator control and management? You go out West, you have government agencies, you got USDA flying choppers, for coyotes, you know, they're bringing in state trappers, you know, they've got to every state has a, you know, a budget set aside for for predator management, including, you know, Virginia.
Keith Mark 11:52
You know, he just hit the nail on the head on a very sore subject for me, Kyle, it makes no sense to me, because what that does is that takes the coyote or whatever predator animal that we're paying good, hard taxpayer dollars for people to shoot out of airplanes or, or helicopters or a poison or to trap when that puts that coyote or the wolf in the in the liability column. Whereas if with solid conservation practices, where we encourage hunters, like the state of Utah put a bounty on coyotes one year, because they weren't managed, there wasn't enough hunters doing their management responsibility. They had to encourage hunters to get in the field and shoot coyotes. So they put a bounty on coyotes, which would cover some of the expense involved in in that endeavor. And it was highly successful, they were able to reduce the surplus of coyotes in their state to a manageable level, which in turn helped all of the prey populations. It's just unconscionable to me that we would pay taxpayer dollars to do what I guarantee you other hunters would do, if they were allowed to or incentivize to do it.
Josh Ishmael 13:15
They pay $500 a deer tag that just Shawnee Mission Park just right over by us they hired snipers to come in and shoot deer and we would have paid $500 per tag for the opportunity, they would have made money off it
Keith Mark 13:27
Listen, I want to get into a couple of other subjects with you. But we got to take a quick break. We're gonna come back when we come back. I want you to tell our listeners, I want you to tell them a hunting story. I want them to know you're legit. If we were sitting around the campfire and you pulled out one of your two best hunting stories, Kyle have them ready when we come back from the break. When we come back with Kyle Couric and Berger, one of my fellow hunter nation members, predator hunter deluxe from the great state of Virginia, stick around.
Right On The Mark 13:57
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Keith Mark 14:35
Welcome back. All right, Kyle, I gave you a break to think about it. Our listeners want to hear you swap a hunting store with them. What do you got?
Kyle Crickenberger 14:43
Alright. You know, I've got I've got so many memorable hunts, you know, whether they're, they're coyote hunts or deer hunts. I guess you could say, one of my most memorable coyote hunts that I have is probably one of the the first coyotes that I ever got to see killed with thermal imaging, which is infrared I'm not sure you know if any of our you know, listeners are familiar with that type of equipment, but infrared or thermal imaging is available to see differentials between heat sources. You know, a lot of hog hunters down in Texas use this equipment a lot of coyote hunters across the nation use this equipment in back in 2011. I purchased a it was called a FLIR ps 32. And it was a thermal monocular. And at the at the time, the equipment was obviously nowhere near as advanced as it is today. But it was, you would see this black and white image. And it looks like an old Nintendo game, almost when you would look through this viewfinder. And me and a couple buddies had gone out to a local farm here that we have in Bedford County, Virginia. And we called up some some coyotes with this thermal imaging gear. And it was so neat to be able to watch how these animals worked into the call and actually came to us because up until that time, we had used spotlights with red filters that was kind of the standard. And it still is a standard for night predator hunting across the nation, especially down in some of the southern states like Texas, and, you know, typically all you can see with that spotlight is the eye-shine of the predator. So you know, you weren't able to, you know, decipher body language, you weren't able to see if he was you know, checking when and where he was going and you lose him in the tall grass or you know, the brush or whatever. And it was, it was so neat to be able to watch the mannerisms and the characteristics of how these predators you know, would would work their way into this pray. distress call. And anyway, we ended up calling in this coyote that about ran up to our feet at ran up the gun barrel, and a good buddy of mine shot it. And we got over to it. And we were just, we were we were blown away at how fun and how action packed you know that that style of hunting was. And I'd say that's, that's what really got me hooked into the coyote management in predator hunting. And I'd say that's probably one of one of my most memorable hunts just just because that's that's where it all, that's where it all started.
Keith Mark 17:44
You know, you mentioned, you know, hunting in the story was with one of your buddies, and it's so cool, because you didn't even pull the trigger. And you're telling that your buddy pulled the trigger, and it's still not the most memorable. You know?
Kyle Crickenberger 17:59
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Keith Mark 18:00
Do you? Do you mostly coyote hunt with your buddies? Or at least another buddy most?
Kyle Crickenberger 18:07
I've got, yeah, I have, you know, I've competed in predator calling competitions across the nations and I've hunted with, with hundreds of great guys, you know, across the country. But here in Virginia, I've got a group of local guys that we've hunted with each other for years. And, and that's what you know, hunting is is about at the end of the day, you know, I think a lot of people forget about the the camaraderie aspect of hunting and when when I'm 70 years old, you know, that, that those are the memories that I believe that you know, will be the most important to me is you know, time in the field with, you know, friends and family, you know, enjoying what I love to do.
Keith Mark 18:52
You know, it's funny that you say that call because that's really it. I mean, you know, everybody that we talked to on this show, and in the campfires that we've been around for years is it rarely is the most memorable event of somebody's hunting career, a trigger pole, or the release of an arrow. It's it's a story around, you know, this event. And it's funny that you say that one of my favorite coyote hunting stories myself, is we were filming a McMillan River Adventure show in northern Missouri as part of a coyote calling contest up there with a friend of mine who used to be the sheriff in that county there. And I'll tell you, I had never up to that point been involved in a coyote calling contest. But the camaraderie around that. I mean, when we got up there, you know, we entered it was early in the day and everybody got their things together in a way we went. But when everybody came back that evening, moms and dads and kids and grandmas and grandpas and they had a big wild game feed. I mean, it was truly like a whole community of people, family and friends that all got together. And and in the end, we were doing our predator management duties. People that only hunted once a year actually. And it happened to be in that calling contest. But still, they were part of this larger, you know, hunting family lifestyle community. So
Josh Ishmael 20:22
Can I ask how that tournament worked out for you?
Keith Mark 20:25
Well, it wasn't bad. We shot quite a few.
Josh Ishmael 20:29
You got disqualified for having a camera guy?
Keith Mark 20:31
Oh, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. We've shot a lot of coyotes, but they said because they considered our camera man as a spotter, which of course we didn't do it to win any which way we did it for the fun. But yeah, no, it was a it was a lot of fun. But the point is, there were some hunters in there. They were deer hunters, or they were turkey hunters. And they weren't really predator hunters. But they did it once a year to be part of that contest, which obviously certainly helped in that County's population management. And I hear and I want you to fill me in on this. I hear there some rumblings in Virginia where they want to do away with coyote calling contest, which I personally find that impossible to believe that the citizens of Virginia with your coyote population going up at the rate that it is would allow that to happen. But you know what, Kyle, I want to hear your take on that we come back after this break.
Right On The Mark 21:28
Hunter Nation has issued an Action Alert in response to organized efforts to ban predator calling contest in Virginia. Hunter Nation needs every hunter to log in and register your opposition to this ban. The comment period ends July 30. So hurry, regardless of where you live in the United States, your comments are welcome. So take action now and visit HunterNation.org. Today, scroll down to the hunter advocacy section or click the hunter advocacy link at the top of the website, you will be directed to the appropriate comment section of the Virginia Division of Wildlife Resources page. Anti hunting regulations like this hurt every Hunter. So make your voice be heard. Now, it's quick and hunter nation has made it as simple as possible. So log on now, and let your voice be heard and help protect hunting rights. Hunter Nation is committed to providing a unified voice for the American Hunter. And this is how you can help visit HunterNation.org today and click the Virginia action alert under our hunter advocacy section. Hurry, this comment period ends July 30.
Keith Mark 22:49
Okay, welcome back, Kyle. And I want to know, is there any truth to these rumors we're hearing here that the year for Virginia is trying to abolish coyote calling contest.
Kyle Crickenberger 23:02
Unfortunately, there there is a lot of truth to those statements. I was made aware of this, back in March, that our DWR wants to ban predator hunting contests in the state of Virginia.
Keith Mark 23:20
And what's the what's the lack of logic behind that Kyle?
Kyle Crickenberger 23:24
Their their logic is is that it is bad optics for the sport of hunting. And they are afraid that it will be misconstrued that we are just hunting to kill versus hunting out of necessity or for a management purpose. And that is that is the logic behind wanting to ban the contest. And like I stated earlier, it just couldn't be further from the truth. And the big driving force, you know, behind a lot of this is is not just our DWR in their opinions of it. But you know, predator hunters and all hunting in general I would say is always under attack by anti hunting organizations and groups, you know, whether it's PETA or the Humane Society or Project Coyote so on and so forth. And we constantly have these organizations that you know, they'll preach one thing, but at the end of the day, they want to get rid of all hunting.
Keith Mark 24:38
That's right.
Kyle Crickenberger 24:38
And it starts at the bottom of the totem pole and it starts with the smaller what I would consider you know, minority groups of hunting being the the predator hunting or the Coon hunters or you know, certain small game, you know, hunting and that's where it starts and it's you know, it's so important for all hunters to understand that once these anti hunting groups get their foot in the door, they might not be coming for your particular type of hunting today, but they will be coming for it eventually.
Keith Mark 25:14
You know, you know, it just did a promo. You just said a promo for why I founded Hunter Nation in the first place. My whole thought, as I sat and looked over the horizon, trying to see multiple years in the future, and there's no way the anti hunters are going to be able to put hunting yes or no on a ballot. And when it's not gonna happen in our great state of Kansas, when they put is hunting a constitutional right. More people voted yes, it is a constitutional right than any other candidate or initiative that had ever been on a ballot in Kansas since statehood. So hunting is not going to be voted out by the populace. That's they know it, but you hit the nail on the head. If hunters don't unite, what they're going to do is they're going to do away with coyote hunting over here. And then they're going to do away with with a Lesser Prairie Chicken hunting over here, and then they're going to do away with teal hunting over here or dove hunting in Michigan or wherever it is. And then once they segment segment, the population, then they've got us in the problem is in the hunting world, if we're not in fighting over bow hunting versus gun hunting versus long range hunting versus crossbow hunting, total apathy is going to kill us because you know, I'm a turkey Hunter. I don't deer hunt. I don't really care if they ban deer hunting because I don't do it. Oh, you know, I don't coyote hunt. I don't care if they ban coyote hunting. I'm just a deer hunter. And all I do is sheep hunt. I'm a sheep hunter and miss. And that's all I do. And I don't care if there's no elk in Yellowstone, or outside of Yellowstone, whatever it is. And so, boy, I tell you between infighting and apathy, Kyle, it's, it's a heck of a problem. And as you know, I asked that question rhetorically about the coyote calling contest, because Hunter Nation has been actively involved with this issue in Virginia. Because we recognize that this is in fact anti hunting. That the goal here isn't anything short of trying to be an anti hunting piece of legislation. And so Hunter Nation right now is encouraging everybody out there, especially those in Virginia, to go to HunterNation.org. There's a link in there. It's we're right now in the comment period, where they're they're taking this under advisement. And we're asking you to go there, whether you're in the state of Virginia or otherwise, and put your comments in there. And let them know that no, we don't want you to ban coyote calling contest. I mentioned the story about Davies County, Missouri. And I promise you more than half of the people in that contest wouldn't coyote hunt if it wasn't for that contest. So look at what they did for predator management that day up there just there one time a year getting out in the woods. And if we don't have that, then again, 50,000 coyotes or whatever the real number is in Virginia, turns into 100,000 coyotes. Then, what do you got? You got a few less rabbits, you got less deer? And then maybe when these anti hunters start losing Chihuahua and spaniels, they'll, they'll listen?
Kyle Crickenberger 28:28
Absolutely, you know, and I think it's important, you know, for people to understand and realize that they're they're, the hunters across the nation, do more for conservation, conservation than any anti hunting group could ever imagine.
Keith Mark 28:49
I agree.
Kyle Crickenberger 28:50
And that's just the fact.
Keith Mark 28:53
Guaranteed fact.
Kyle Crickenberger 28:54
We will we can't, we can't as hunters, you know, let that slip out of our hands and let these anti hunting groups you know, get a stronghold and start taking away certain styles, you know, or different species, you know, of hunting, and it's just imperative that we we all band together. And, you know, you don't you don't have to be a coyote Hunter. You know, if you're a deer hunter or turkey hunter elk bear doesn't matter. You know, we're all in the fight together. And that's what it's about right now is bringing people bringing the hunters you know, and the hunting community together to say, "Hey, you know, we're all going to fight this. We're not going to stand for what's going on. We're not going to stand for any legislation of taking away any type of hunting." You know, we we have a lot of deer hunters here in Virginia, and it's been a, a big sport here to run deer with hounds. I mean, it's it's been a tradition here in Virginia for a long time and I don't know if you know this or not, but hound hunting for deer has been under fire in Virginia for years. I mean, it's actually another one of the topics, you know, on the agenda that they're trying to get rid of here in Virginia currently as well. And I, I'm a deer hunter myself, but I still hunt. I don't, I don't participate in hound hunting tradition. You know, I didn't grow up doing it that way. But I believe that those guys have every, you know, bit as much right to hunt with their hounds is I do to get in a tree stand and hunt deer.
Keith Mark 30:35
Josh, what he just said, I'm going to paraphrase what he said, if you're not a member of Hunter Nation, go to HunterNation.org. Because everything that you just said, Kyle is exactly why Hunter Nation exists is to try to bring the hound hunters, with the turkey hunters, with the predator hunters and so on and so forth. And so yeah, please if you're not a member of Hunter Nation, I mean, the great CEO, President Luke Hilgemann is leading a charge of a grassroots army of hunters to make sure that the anti hunters don't cut us apart. And then cautious one little group at a time,
Josh Ishmael 31:15
Kyle's actually on fire on another topic of if you're a deer hunter, you should care about it because 54% of fawn deaths are caused by coyotes.
Keith Mark 31:23
And that's it 50,000 Imagine if, well, let's ask this question, because then you're gonna give me the answer to what's going to happen in Josh's scenario. So I personally believe that coyote calling contests are an integral part of coyote management, because it is not one of the more popular forms of hunting. And now of course, you've got guys like you and me and Josh, we're going to coyote hunt, no matter what, because one, I enjoy it. Two, it's very challenging. And three, I fully understand that every coyote I kill is helping my deer and fawn and Turkey population on my farm. So in your opinion, Kyle, if these anti hunters prevail on this issue, and they banned calling contest for coyotes in in Virginia, do you believe it will have an adverse effect on the number of people that get to the woods to hunt coyotes, in turn, is going to hurt the management of that species?
Kyle Crickenberger 32:24
Absolutely. I mean, you know, it does coincide with with deer hunting, you know, as the predator population increases, if they aren't being managed, or hunted, you know, the the fawn mortality rate is also going to increase with that, you know, the predation rate is also going to increase, you know, with the small game, you know, animals. I mean, it's, it goes back to this simple wildlife management, you know, and Conservation 101 and it's just very imperative that, you know, the hunters under understand that and even if you're not a hunter, you know, so right.
Keith Mark 33:09
You want to just see deer in the woods. You want to see deer in the woods, give us that number one more time, Josh, why the deer hunters there? And I'm sure there's a comparable turkey stat like this are certainly probably a comparable rabbit. Maybe a chihuahua stat. But let's give them the deer stat. Right?
Josh Ishmael 33:24
It was 54% of all fawn deaths were caused by coyotes,
Keith Mark 33:28
right? Think about that. That's it. 50,000 coyotes. They banned coyote calling contest, let's say they kill half of the number of coyotes in Virginia. Next thing you know they're gonna have 75,000 coyotes in Virginia, then what's that going to do to fawn mortality? It's going to be crazy. So listen, as we sit around this campfire, and we're about to close. Listen to Kyle, if you're in Virginia, no matter if you're a turkey hunter, Deer Hunter. You know, whatever. waterfowl Hunter, hey, support, all hunting, legal and ethical hunting, which certainly predator hunting is, coyote contests are, go to HunterNation.org. Get in the fight. Don't sit on the sidelines. This game is too important. Got to get in the fight.
Josh Ishmael 34:13
All right, before we leave, Kyle, I got a question for you. A lot of the people that are against coyote competition see the pictures of the the coyotes on trailers after the contest. Can you tell us why the coyotes are on the trailers?
Kyle Crickenberger 34:29
Yeah. One event in particular, a good friend of mine, Jason Groseclose. He hosts and has been hosting for a few years now an event here in Virginia called the Eastern predator calling championship and it's one of the largest predator hunting calling competitions east of the Mississippi River. And how the format of the hunt works is you can actually participate in this event in any state, east of the Mississippi River, there's rules and regulations for the hunt. And then there's a check in in Wytheville, Virginia, where all these participants will bring, you know, their coyotes. And there's, you know, there's there's bounties, and you know, there's different prizes for, you know, first, second, third play side side deals, and so on and so forth. And at the end of this event, we have, since day one of this contest, we have had a fur buyer on site that will bring in a 16 foot trailer, and he collects all the fur, whether it be foxes or Bobcat, and he skins these animals out, and he sells them, you know, at NAFA, so the furs are being utilized. And the reason that you'll see these pictures, floating around with, you know, a few 100 coyotes on a trailer is because that's actually the fur buyer, that is, is collecting all of the first to go in, you know, utilize it and skin all those animals out. And you'll see a lot of misinformation out there with a picture that, you know, the Humane Society or Project Coyote will put out and it will, you know, be something along the lines of, you know, "these 300, you know, coyotes were, you know, slaughtered, you know, by by one group of by, by five guys", and that's just so far from the truth, because that that is collectively, several 100 participants that have harvested those animals, and, you know, in the entire state or surrounding, you know, states, so we're talking hundreds of millions of acres, you know, it's not like, you know, they are decimating a population where there has been several 100 coyotes taken out of this one county, you know, it spans across, you know, the, the entire state. And at the end of the day, you know, what that is, is, is predator management.
Keith Mark 36:56
That's right. And you know, what that trailer signifies, that signifies that a number of hunters participated in hands on predator management, wildlife conservation, and that's living proof that it works because the more of those coyotes that get shot and managed, the population stays at a stable level which all the prey populations benefit from. So here's my question for you. Who's the most famous predator hunter in all time, Virginia history?
Kyle Crickenberger 37:29
I would honestly have to say, a good a good friend of mine, Benton Bowman is his name. And he's
Keith Mark 37:39
Well, Benton may have been a heck of a coyote hunter or predator Hunter. But do you know George Washington, was a prolific Fox Hunter. In fact, George Washington, hunted Fox nearly every day. And he kept a very copious diary and journal of the number of foxes that he saw and the number of foxes that he was able to take all via horseback and hounds. How about that?
Kyle Crickenberger 38:05
Really? I did not know that.
Keith Mark 38:07
See there now. Now that's something that you have to research and look into it, in my opinion. If George Washington, the founder of our nation, thought enough about hands on predator management, that he not only did it, he wrote about it, I sure think all the rest of you all in Virginia, and all across the country, ought to take it seriously and do it ourselves. What do you think?
Kyle Crickenberger 38:31
Absolutely.
Keith Mark 38:32
Well, Kyle, you've been a heck of a guest. I appreciate you coming around the cyber campfire witness and I tell you, you let me know when there's a coyote calling contest out there. And I'd love to come out there and participate in hands on predator management in Virginia. I've never hunted Virginia, I'd love to come out there and share a real campfire with you if you would have us.
Unknown Speaker 38:55
Yes, sir. Absolutely. My doors is open anytime. And if you guys ever wanted to come out here and hunt, you're absolutely welcome. And I just want to I want to thank you guys for giving me the opportunity, you know, to, to come on the podcast today. And you know, just just speak about what we've got, you know, going on here in Virginia, and what I want to also thank Luke for everything he's done with Hunter Nation as well and helping us fight this battle. And, you know, hopefully, the upcoming vote that we have going on in August that it's going to go in our favor, you know, and we're going to be able to continue, you know, to participate in legal hunting. You know, that's, that's our main goal. Yeah, just
Keith Mark 39:39
remember, just remember this, Kyle, if those brave patriots would have showed up at the Concord bridge, and looked around and there was three of them. We'd have been in big trouble. And one we're trying to ban things like, you know, this, this bad policy in Virginia that they're trying to pass the banned coyote calling contest and, and all these other fights that Hunter Nation's in the middle of if Luke turns around, and there's only two or three people that are behind him, hunters lose. So thanks for putting your name on the dotted line for Hunter Nation Kyle, I encourage you to reach out to all your fellow predator hunters and just hunters in general in Virginia, make sure they know that this is a fight for our lifestyle, buddy. And that if they're not members of Hunter Nation, they need to go to HunterNation.org and become part of this army. Thanks for coming on Kyle. And those of you listening if you stick around, Josh now have a little close and we'll be back here in just one second. Thanks again, Kyle. Happy hunting.
Kyle Crickenberger 40:44
Thank you.
Right On The Mark 40:45
Hunter Nation has issued an Action Alert in response to organized efforts to ban predator calling contests in Virginia. Hunter Nation needs every hunter to login and register your opposition to this ban. The comment period ends July 30. So hurry, regardless of where you live in the United States. Your comments are welcome. So take action now and visit HunterNation.org. Today, scroll down to the hunter advocacy section or click the hunter advocacy link at the top of the website, you will be directed to the appropriate comment section of the Virginia Division of Wildlife Resources page. Anti hunting regulations like this hurt every Hunter. So make your voice be heard. Now, it's quick and Hunter Nation has made it as simple as possible. So log on now, and let your voice be heard and help protect hunting rights. Hunter Nation is committed to providing a unified voice for the American Hunter. And this is how you can help visit HunterNation.org today and click the Virginia Action Alert under our hunter advocacy section. Hurry, this comment period ends July 30.
Keith Mark 42:06
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And you know what, Josh? That's really refreshing, right? You know, we've had, you know, all kinds of crazy people here on the podcast from Ted Nugent and Michael Martin Murphy to Mark Geist and so on and so forth. But I mean, just talking to Kyle reminds me how important it is that just rank and file hunters step up and make their voice heard.
Josh Ishmael 42:28
And he's he's not with an organization.
Keith Mark 42:30
Nope.
Josh Ishmael 42:30
He's just a guy wanting to make a difference. He's making a difference.
Keith Mark 42:33
Yes, he isn't. And if you're listening today, and you're thinking, Well, I'm just one person. Well, you know, one person turns to two turns to, you know, 80 million if we're talking voting,
Josh Ishmael 42:44
right, you know, and if nothing else, he educated people on where the coyotes go, or I mean, it's not like they're just thrown away. They're being utilized. And in turn, they're helping the deer populations, the turkey populations, and so on and so forth.
Keith Mark 42:58
Yeah, it just seems crazy. To me. It's sinister, in fact, is the word that comes to my mind that there are forces out there that they know managing coyotes are a must if we're going to have healthy deer, healthy turkey healthy, all these populations, but yet they don't want to manage them. Right.
Josh Ishmael 43:18
Right, right. Well, just like you said, if there's no deer to be hunted, then why go to the woods. If I take my kids out, and they don't see anything? Why do they want to go again?
Keith Mark 43:27
Right? And you know, and I tell you today, and we ought to mention this. So a friend of the program passed away today. Somebody that came on as a guest for us, not three weeks ago, really one of the corner blocks of modern, you know, the American model of conservation, Val Geist. And you know, Josh, remember what what he said he said that the really the only thing that standing between the Second Amendment and its abolition is the American Hunter.
Josh Ishmael 43:59
Right.
Keith Mark 44:00
And so I think it's even worse than then sometimes we think, I think it's not just anti hunting. I think it's so sinister, that it's anti American, if there's no hunters, there's no need to have firearms. And then the next thing you know, what do we become? Something to think about? Well, very refreshing to listen to Kyle, talk about just how fun it is to, you know, and challenging it is to predator hunting, how important that it is that we predator hunt.
Josh Ishmael 44:31
And more importantly, to make your voice be heard by going to the Virginia website and let your public comment be heard.
Keith Mark 44:38
Right. I hope Kyle, when he hung up today that he calls five of his friends and tells them to call five of their friends to call five of their friends until they literally get an army of hunters in Virginia to let their voice be heard and make sure they don't get this just rotten anti hunting policy shoved down their throat.
Josh Ishmael 44:59
Uh hum.
Keith Mark 44:59
Well, if If you're not members of Hunter Nation, make your voice heard go to HunterNation.org. It's a must. Honestly, when we're in a cultural war for our lifestyle, I think we're in a culture war right now. For the soul of America. It boils down in my opinion, just to just the old fashioned good versus evil. This is like every Western we saw when we were kids, you knew who the good guy was from the start. You knew who the bad guy was from the start. And you rooted like hell for the good guy. And sometimes the good guy needed friends to join the posse and help defeat evil. Well, Luke, the CEO, and president of Hunter Nation needs you to join his posse become members of HunterNation.org make your voice be heard. That way we can crush these anti hunters in Virginia and everywhere else where they rear their ugly heads. Well, join us again next time we'll be "Right On The Mark" right here.
Right On The Mark 45:53
Right On The Mark invites you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021
Episode 14-16 featuring Val Geist
Valerius “Val” Geist was a biologist, educator, author, hunter and expert on North American big game, their habits and habitat and true conservation.
Val Geist was an authority on wildlife in North America and should be a household name, but he refused to bend to mainstream media and so-called conservation experts who bristled at his belief that wolves are not endangered and must be managed like all predators.
Mr. Geist was a Canadian biologist and professor emeritus at the University of Calgary, but he spent as much or time in the wilderness as he did in the classroom. When he wasn’t teaching or learning, he was writing, He was author of 24 books on the big game species that roam North America.
Sadly, Professor Geist passed away weeks after this extended, 3-part podcast. His messages are timeless and important at many levels. His combination of wilderness field experience, book smarts and the common sense of an experienced hunter combine to provide our audience with a wealth of information and a valuable perspective.
Val was born in Russia to German parents shortly after World War 2 and took to the woods at a young age. In 1953, he moved to Canada and began his love affair with hunting and nature. He perused a career in biology by studying mountain sheep in the wild for six years. He continued his field studies, classroom learning and research and went on to become a professor.
He resents so-called “conservationists” who have never hunted or spent time in the wild with the wolves and other animals they claim to understand.
His research and real-world experience in the wild taught him that predator management is a crucial part of conservation. Along with colleagues around the globe, he helped define and spread the word on the concept of a “predator pit”. Predator pits occur when apex predators like the wolf go unmanaged. The results of predator pits are devasting to all wildlife.
Professor Geist warns the American hunter of the dangers of not being involved in the politics and points out a clear bias in most media sources. He clearly states the he feels the American hunter is all the still stands in the way of eliminating the 2nd Amendment.
Do not miss one minute of this extended, 3-part version of Right On The Mark and join us all here in wishing this unsung hero Godspeed and a peaceful repose of his soul.
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 14, recorded July 2021, featuring internationally renowned wildlife expert Val Geist starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter and award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things God family country and hunting he's Keith Mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 0:44
The next three episodes feature discussions with one of the foremost experts on big game animals in North America,Val Geist. You probably don't recognize his name because he's never sought the spotlight. And when he did take center stage, of course, the mainstream media ignored him and his message. Mr. Geist, was born in the Ukraine and was raised in Austria and Germany. As a youngster, he was ridiculed by peers and turned to the woods and wild places for the comfort they provide, just as many hunters have. Through his long life, he was a rugged big game hunter, a highly educated biologist who went on to become a professor. He was a prolific writer and a passionate lover of animals. He helped to provide the framework for the North American model of Conservation, and he was a vocal advocate for predator management. We were blessed to share the time we had with Mr. Geist. And what you're about to hear, was most likely his last interview, as God took him home just two weeks after our recording. I've struggled with the decision of whether to go forward with these episodes. But I'm confident that Val Geist would want his message to be heard. Whatever your feelings about the need for hunting and predator management, you absolutely should listen to the thoughts and beliefs of this unparalleled expert on these subjects. Speaking for everyone here, at Right On The Mark, podcast, conservation, wildlife and all wild places has lost a true champion with the passing of Val Geist. Mr. Geist was certainly a friend to the North American hunters. And we dedicate these three shows to his lifetime of learning, hard work, advocacy, and his many hunting adventures. Godspeed, and God bless Val Geist. Hi, everybody. This is Keith Mark, the host of Right On The Mark podcast. And I'm really excited today, Josh, with our guest, you know, you and I, we always try to bring someone on that's either going to entertain, you know, our listeners, or someone that's going to inform them. Our guest today is really an intriguing gentleman. He's not only going to entertain them, but I think we're going to all learn something today.
Josh Ishmael 3:12
Yeah, no doubt he's not he wrote 19 books about different sheep and elk and moose. And I mean, everything under the sun that you can hunt in North America. I feel like and I'm, I'm excited to learn about these animals. Because, yes, we hunt them. And that's our goal to try to end up harvesting them. But I mean, as conservationists, we want to see them grow and flourish. And he's done it for years and years and years.
Keith Mark 3:35
19 books. That's twice the number of books you've actually read, Josh.
Josh Ishmael 3:40
Yeah 🙂
Keith Mark 3:40
I mean, that's impressive in its own right, right there.
Josh Ishmael 3:42
No doubt 🙂
Keith Mark 3:43
Well, stay tuned, folks, because we're going to talk to a gentleman named Val Geist, who is he knows virtually everything that you need to know about virtually every big game species in North America. But more importantly, I'm very intrigued with how Mr. Geist has progressed with his knowledge of the wolf, and how he has altered his thinking with regard to Wolf and not out of emotion. But out of fact, out of science and personal experience. So stay tuned. Our guest today is Val Geist,
Right On The Mark 4:24
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation, Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God family, country, conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org today.
Keith Mark 4:43
Welcome back. You're still listening to Right On The Mark podcast. with no further ado, I'd like to introduce a gentleman who is a scholar. I mean, just, knows so much about all those things that we as the American hunter and worldwide hunters are concerned and care about Ladies and gentlemen, Val Geist. Mr. Geist, Welcome to Right On The Mark.
Val Geist 5:05
Thank you. I'm looking forward to this.
Keith Mark 5:07
You know, in the open, Josh mentioned that you've written 19, at least 19 books on the subject
Val Geist 5:15
Its up to 24 now.
Keith Mark 5:17
24. And you realize, Mr. Guys, that's twice more than twice the amount of books that my sidekick Josh has even read in his lifetime:) So that's pretty impressive. First of all, when did you get your interest in big game and what made you want to study them to the point where you could write these really treatise, material books on on big game?
Val Geist 5:43
Well, I came out of Europe, out of war torn Europe. And I was born in Russia, parents, which were German, and Russian, and when we came to Austria, I had a little bit of a difficulty with language, understandably so. And kids kind of tease you then. My response was to get into the forest into the woods. And that's where it began. I was always interested in the big game. And I always wanted to be a hunter. And as a teenager, I came to Canada in 1953. And after the war experience, the first thing I did was to join the rifle Regiment, because I didn't want to be helpless should the third world war breakout. And I have always liked shooting. And so one thing led to the next and I became a biologist, I spent... my PhD, by the way was a bit unusual in the sense that I spent six years in the field studying mountain sheep, two years of which were in isolation of Northern British Columbia. One of my closest neighbor, were two Tahltan and families, native families lived 40 miles away. My next door neighbors,
Keith Mark 6:58
Wow!
Val Geist 6:59
And the book that I wrote, mountain sheep, won the Book of the Year Award by the wildlife society in 1972. And well, I became a professor, and continued on, I've always tried to insist of getting out into the wilderness, into the bush, into situations where you live with animals. Well, I our national parks were pretty good about that. For instance, I spent about eight years with mule deer. And I know, I can answer the question, for instance, where do mule deer go when there is a blizzard?
Keith Mark 7:39
And where do they go?
Val Geist 7:41
They have a network of little spots that are calm during the blizzard. And these spots are hills. And if you go behind those hills, you will find that there's a pocket of still air there. I have pictures where the winds are howling over top of me. And the snow is still sitting on the branches in these pockets of calm air. But the deer race to those spots. The moment the blizzard hits, I followed them, otherwise I wouldn't be here I would suspect well give you an example. This is how you have to study animals, you've got to be there. These mule deer, by the way was so tame that I could sit beside a buck if I wanted to. And I also discovered something else, which is of interest. Ultimately, they were shirkers amongst those bucks. Three, I discovered in eight years, they were animals that these super bucks that didn't breed. I'll give you an example. They were shy, they grew into enormous monsters with incredible antlers, because they saved their energy for being lazy, and not participating in the rut. That's where they lose their fat. Anyway, that is what you get when you are outside. Now in terms of wolves...
Keith Mark 8:57
Hey, before you get before you get the wolf's, Val. What you just said kind of makes me think there's really two ways that someone can do research. One is you know, you can go to a library. And you could just read books after books after books. And some people do that. And they claim to be experts on whatever they've read 40 books on. And the other way to do it is to actually get into the field and I'm and obviously getting into the field is not mutually exclusive of reading up on the topic, which I'm sure you did as well. But you took that book learning one step further. And you went out and you saw how it actually exists in the wild which is just really impressive. And to me a doctor that I think that is the best way to do research.
Well this is that is my argument also say yes, you have to have a library card. It's a very important thing nowadays. You have been Computer as well. But you should be going out and familiarizing yourself with how animals live. And it is an very enjoyable task. It can be dangerous at times you have to learn how to handle yourself so that you don't get attacked, for instance, by animals. I have been attacked by quite a few things and have survived. So I'm speaking from experience.
And you know, you are quite an expert on the topic of wolves. And I do want to get to that. And I think a lot of our listeners are very interested in that topic. It's one of the hottest topics right now among hunters and, and an outdoor people on all sides of the equation. So when we come back from this break, Val, I would like to get into the topic of wolves with you. Okay, we stick around.
Val Geist 10:50
It's fine. I'm looking forward to it.
Keith Mark 10:51
We'll be right back with more Right On The Mark. right after this.
Right On The Mark 10:55
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Keith Mark 11:33
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And we have a very interesting and unique guest, if you will. We have Val Geist, to course, who is a biologist book learned. It just it actual experience in the woods in the bush learned. And he's a hunter. And so he sees the world the way we see the world as the American Hunter. But he's concerned about the science that impact hunters as well. And and the reason we really invited Val onto the program today is because of his knowledge and experience with the wolf and I have some questions that I'd like to kick this off with. First of all, you hear all the time people talking about down here in the States, reintroducing the wolf to certain locations, it's going on right now in Colorado. And it's gone on in many states down here. And they say we're going to reintroduce the wolf. And the first question I have Val is, is the wolf that is getting reintroduced in brought out of Canada, the same wolf that was indigenous to the Continental 48.
Well, actually pretty well, because the idea that wolves are split into different subspecies, is standing with very weak legs, they have a tremendous capacity to roam and interbreed. So you what you do find is ecotypes. It means that the wolf, where he is living reflects the conditions of that landscape. So if you go from south to north, you will find that most increase in body size for instance, up to the Arctic Circle, and then they decrease in body size thereafter. So this is an ecotypic adaptation. But if I may, start with wolves, please, please allow me to do the following. You made a good point, you need a combination of reading, and a field work of discussion of understanding. And it helps if you are able to speak another language besides English. And so the very first thing I would like to tell you about wolves is that they were under natural conditions, before human beings came to this continent or fo that matter before human beings were dominant. They were a very rare animal. Because wolves were part and parcel of a collection of carnivores, and they were being controlled in those days by large cats and predacious bears. So that in the fossil record, the wolves are fairly rare. Today, we still find the situation, for instance, reflected in Manchuria and Siberia where the Siberian tiger exists. And the "unintelligible" the native people of the land, revere the tiger, because in the presence of the tiger, wolves are minimally present or totally absent and you have wildlife to hunt. When you remove the tiger, the wolves come back. And while that disappears almost completely. And we have something similar of that going on in other locations like India, for instance, where you have leopards that are eating wolves quite regularly. So what I'm trying to bring about is that your reintroductions of wolves without their native enemies there that used to control them is an unnatural event. You would think that this is returning to nature. No, you're not. You haven't had natural conditions on this continent for 12,000 years. And the wolf that is being introduced today in your landscape is therefore quite an unnatural element. And they are very, very destructive. That's the first thing. They're not only destructive of wildlife. They're also very destructive of human activities in the landscape, ranches, farmers, and so on, so forth. And that is universal. You have to take my word for it. But the wolf is circumpolar. The wolf is found in Northern Hemisphere's, it's found in many, many countries, and in every one of these countries, it is a negative factor. Not a positive one, a very, very negative one. And on top of the damage, that severe damage that the wolf does, is doing in your country right now. You also have the unfortunate situation, that it will become extinct genetically. Because in settled landscapes, wolves hybridize with coyotes, and with dogs, and you get a Koi Wolf, which is a worthless mixture of things, that's not a natural animal. That is an artifact, indirectly, of human making. So in reintroducing wolves to your settled landscapes, you're in the process of destroying the species. And this is something that I think we should have, should be thinking about, no matter how negative wolves are the other species worth preserving. And we have to understand the circumstances under which they will thrive. But they do not thrive, ultimately, in settled landscapes. So this what you're doing is an unscientific experiment, to say the very least.
You know, tell the viewers and the listeners if you would, Val, when you first started studying the wolf, and you had your own baggage, if you will, that you brought into the equation, your thoughts of the wolf, how much whether you thought they were an asset or a liability, positive or negative. And there's been a bit of a transformation in that. And I would appreciate it if you would just tell us where you started on the wolf topic. That's a hot topic now, that led you up to where you are now.
Val Geist 17:32
Well, at the time that I retired, and I did 1995, I was mildly interested in predation. And when I was in a little wildlife paradise on Vancouver Island, and it stayed the wild paradise till a pack of wolves arrived, and I just couldn't believe my eyes what was going on. First of all, the landscape was cleaned of deer and the deer came rushing out of the forest, into the suburbs, literally. Believe it or not, my neighbor was a dairy farmer. And during nighttime, I could see with very powerful, powerful lights, how deer were crowding at the edge of his barns trying to get away from wolves, as such. The ignore dogs as a matter of fact. So what I saw with my own eyes is our deer fleeing the areas that were occupied now by wolves, occupied landscape. They got into my garden, I planted a little orchard, and they destroyed it completely, by the way, but in the preceding four years, there was none of that they had been in the background. We didn't have any walls. We had a few mountain lions at that time point. But no wolves.`
Keith Mark 18:44
What brought the horse to...what brought the wolves to your Vancouver Island, Val?
Val Geist 18:48
Well, what brought it was the following. I'm living at the edge of the agricultural district north of a little city called Porto Burnie and we are also living not far away from a very large Provincial Park Strathcona Provincial Park. So this is where wolves were. This was a "spill over" that came. In fact, in the 25 years that I've been there, maybe six years I've been there, we've had two wolf packs showing up. The interesting thing to me about those wolf packs were that they behave completely different from what I had experienced when I was studying mountain sheep, mountain goats, and moose etc. on the continent. These deer, no these wolves very, very, very, very quickly began something I had never seen before there was sitting and watching us. And I at once got to my colleagues that knew more about wolves than I did, particularly Professor Erich Klinghammer. The late now, now Erich Klinghammer. Erich like myself is German. We both studied etholog. We were both professors. And we both had studied under Konrad Lawrence, Nobel Prize carrier in Germany. We were good friends, and there were others like Lu Carbyn, the great Wolf biologists of the Canadian Wildlife Service, that's also a German chap. And we're very, very good friends. So the first thing I did is made contact and asked "what is going on"?. And what was going on was that our wolves, which was small in body size, they were ..., they were actually starvation wolves, but very quickly targeting people. And the way that the wolf operates is the wolf operates very different from the dog. And the wolf is a sight learner. And he sits in observes for a long time, very, very carefully. And then he acts quite rationally on that. My friends told me about escape attempts by wolves in captivity, which are really quite hair raising, because wolves can open doors very, very cleverly. And the best thing to guard against that is a double set of doors to prevent them from coming out. They were all sorts of great coping ...is another dear friend of mine, that we talked about. So I was very quickly under the guidance of real experts, because Erich Klinghammer generated Wolf Park in Battleground, Indiana and has been looking at it for decades. And so it is from their, with their knowledge and my observations, that we discovered that these wolves were progressively getting closer and closer and closer into human habitation, they were killing dogs, they were killing cattle, they were killing sheep. And we didn't allow them the ultimate approach. They came to, in my case they gave within about 10 paces, was just stand and watch me nothing else, and they would walk away. Now, this behavior continued in a campground, not very far away from us, about an hour and a half on the coast of Vancouver Island, Avargas Island, and two wolves showed up there. And they integrated themselves in amongst the campus like dogs almost. And they were pulling on the clothing. They were licking exposed skin. And after about three weeks of that... they attacked. So it looked as if the wolf had a system of slow steady learning about how to tackle alternative prey, human beings included. And then it turns out the two colleagues in California, studying coyotes found exactly the same progression in coyotes that were targeting children in suburban parks, Rex Mur..., uh, Rex Baker. We met or later on, of course, we had a good laugh about it. So what it turns out is that the little Wolf and the big wolf have an identical way of targeting their prey, as such. So this was a bit of a new insight. But it was only possible because we are dealing with starvation, wolves on Vancouver Island that were small.
Keith Mark 23:02
And let me stop you there for a second when you talk about starvation wolves, and you use the term spillover.
Val Geist 23:09
Right.
Keith Mark 23:09
Just so I'm on the same page as you and maybe our listeners as well, when we talk about the the phrase and the terminology of habitat and carrying capacity. That applies to wolves as well. I mean, if you have a certain piece of land, only so many wolves can survive there in a healthy manner because of the prey that they feed on. If there becomes too many wolves in an area or the prey that they eat on diminishes to the point... is that what you're talking about, then the wolves must look elsewhere, and then they move their home range?
Well, and to some extent, you're right. Actually, it's worse than that. When you leave the wolves alone, to do as they please. They multiply on the wildlife, they could take the wildlife down to almost nothing. And you get a predator pit situation, that's what we call it. And the predator pitch is such that wolves cannot exist in it because they've taken the wildlife down completely. And the area is taken over by grizzly bears or brown bears in Siberia. And these bears do very well on the vegetation. And come springtime, the bears now begin to hunt what little there is left of birth giving ungulates in that area mooes, whatever it is. And this has been very well studied in Alaska, by the way, what they did is they instrumented grizzly bears with cameras here at the bottom of the throat. And then they collected the cameras a month later. And it turns out that their champions were grizzly bears that killed something like 50 moose calves and or caribou calves during that time period. The question is, how many they killed before and how many they kill after that. In other words, bears are extremely efficient predators on young ungulates. So in the predator pit situation, the bear thrives. And this keeps the ungulate populations down forever, practically, but it's ironically also a case where there are very few wolves left in the predator pit situation. And predator pit situations are found throughout Northern Canada, throughout Alaska, throughout Siberia. I am writing right now our paper on that with a colleague from Moscow, Lenny Baskin, who is a great Serbian ecologist who studied reindeer, to quite the large extent, and this is a very unnatural situation, but we have it. To me, the accute thing is that in Alaska, this has been recognized, and they have an official policy pertaining to predator pit situations. The policy is that we leave them alone till we need that wildlife for human consumption. Then we go in, we control wolves, we control bears, and we bring back the wildlife. Well, how much wildlife will you bring back? When you look for instance, at Banff Park, when wolves appeared, or at Yellowstone Park when wolves appeared in Banff Park, they took to the elk down by 90%. So when you...
How many wolves was it that took the elk down to 90% that from...
Val Geist 26:21
Well, I can't give you that figure. Exactly. Because I haven't memorized it but I studied mountain sheep during the 1960s there were 2500 elk in the park. The valleys were alive with bugling. Oh, I can tell you that. And after the wolves came in the 1970s it went down to 250 or less. And the elk are silent. I went with my students there we couldn't find any, couldn't hear anything anymore. At the same thing on Vancouver Island. We have these very large elk here. They're doing reasonably well despite wolf predation, but they're silent. They don't bugle during the rutting season or only exceptionally and I myself have called in bears by bugling likeable a bull elk. Well. That's what what what is happening under this circumstances.
Keith Mark 27:12
Okay, continue you were talking about Yellowstone and Banff Park is a devastation that the wolf caused there?
Well, in Yellowstone, you have a very good studies and it turns out that you require about 23 elk per wolf per year. And if you can imagine standing on your own lawn in front of your house, and having 23 standing ther. That's the number of elk taken down by a wolf in one year.
One wolf takes 23 elk.
Yes, that's right.
Wow!
Val Geist 27:40
And so what we find in Yellowstone, which is very, very informative, is that, yes, the elk are being taken down the numbers, but a good many elk flee the park and are found on private land. And that is how they survive. And we find the same thing in Alberta at the present time where wolves have taken over the foothills and the forestry reserve, we find the elk out in the ranch country and particularly moose going sometimes literally over 100 miles, their way into the prairies and living in coolies where there are some willows growing and so on, so forth. That was something was didn't exist in my time. When I was in Calgary as a professor, but it has happened in meantime. In other words, wildlife tries to stay alive, and they go into cities, they seek out human habitation, because this is where they're safe from wolves and from other carnivores.
Keith Mark 28:36
Hey, folks, that's it for this week. But Join us next week as we learn even more from our guest, Val Geist, one of the foremost experts on wolves and predator management in North America. And if you like our program, be sure to like and subscribe and make sure to drop us a comment or request.
Right On The Mark 28:57
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation Studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 15, recorded July 2021, featuring internationally renowned wildlife expert Val Geist starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. Rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunter's lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hotheaded. But when it comes to all things God, family, country and hunting, he's Keith Mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:46
The next episodes feature discussions with one of the foremost experts on big game animals in North America. Val Geist, you probably don't recognize his name because he's never sought the spotlight. And when he did take center stage, of course, the mainstream media ignored him and his message. Mr. Geist, was born in the Ukraine and was raised in Austria and Germany. As a youngster, he was ridiculed by peers and turned to the woods and wild places for the comfort they provide, just as many hunters have. Through his long life he was a rugged big game hunter, a highly educated biologist who went on to become a professor. He was a prolific writer and a passionate lover of animals. He helped to provide the framework for the North American model of conservation, and he was a vocal advocate for predator management. We were blessed to share the time we had with Mr. Geist. And what you're about to hear, was most likely his last interview, as God took him home just two weeks after our recording. I've struggled with the decision of whether to go forward with these episodes. But I'm confident that Val Geist would want his message to be heard. Whatever your feelings about the need for hunting and predator management, you absolutely should listen to the thoughts and beliefs of this unparalleled expert on these subjects. Speaking for everyone here at Right On The Mark, podcast, conservation, wildlife and all wild places has lost a true champion with the passing of Val Geist. Mr. Geist was certainly a friend to the North American hunters. And we dedicate these three shows to his lifetime of learning, hard work, advocacy, and his many hunting adventures. Godspeed, and God bless Val Geist. Welcome back to Right On The Mark. And we're talking to Val Geist, just an expert when it comes to all things wild and we're talking about and he was just telling us about the devastation that's gone on in places where the wolf has been reintroduced. We were talking about Yellowstone Mr. Geist and I just will just ask this question... if unchecked, if wolves were not managed in any way, shape, or form through hunting, we know there's not any natural predators other than man
Val Geist 3:15
Correct.
Keith Mark 3:15
for them any more, if left unchecked, in or around the Yellowstone region, what would be the ultimate conclusion with regard to elk and moose and other ungulates in the in the park?
Val Geist 3:30
Well, you will first of all have large scale extinctions taking place which have taken place, try to find me a moose in Yellowstone Park, for instance. And the what you will find is you have minimal amount of wildlife concentrated on private land. In other words, your large areas of public land will be denuded of wildlife because of predation. By the way, your wonderful system of North American wildlife management would never have arisen unless you had eliminated the wolf in the 1920s already from the United States as such because your system of wildlife conservation is based on the idea that you produce wildlife for the general public or consumption. And, uh, if the wildlife is being consumed by predators we'll find out when hunting goes from that, that point.
Keith Mark 4:21
So there are some people, there are some people Mr. Geist that believe, one of the reasons behind this big push to reintroduce and introduce in some cases, the wolf into places that have historically been excellent. conservation success stories like Yellowstone, for example. at its root, is an anti hunting policy.
Val Geist 4:49
Correct.
Keith Mark 4:49
Do you agree or disagree with that?
Val Geist 4:51
No, I don't disagree. I agree entirely. The animal rightists are very happy. As a matter of fact, some of the statements that's made in Europe were very interesting. They say we'd rather have no dee at all than hunting.
Keith Mark 5:03
Wow. I mean, that almost seems so this is that that's actually sad when you think about that.
Val Geist 5:10
And it's also very sad that your US Fish and Wildlife Service has been more or less following that philosophy, because to introduce wolves into your landscape is unscientific, it's unnatural.
Keith Mark 5:23
Wolves are predators and they're going to eat and you've already given us examples that wolves will adapt. You know, that eventually, if the anti-hunting you know PETA people, Humane Society, people, Defenders of Wildlife, people have their way. Wolves remain unchecked. elk, deer, moose populations diminishe to virtually nothing.
Val Geist 5:48
Right, correct.
Keith Mark 5:49
Here, you still have the wolf. And what will the wolf evolve to next? In your opinion, Mr. Geist?
Val Geist 5:55
Well, as I said, you have right now, the legal framework that ensures that the little wolf the coyote, will be replaced by the big wolf. Well, have fun. When that happens.
Keith Mark 6:08
Well, what would you predict will happen if it gets to that?
Val Geist 6:12
Well, as I said, it's difficult to see this happening in a country that is armed, in a country that has a lot of hunters. I think there's going to be a bit of rebellion by the hunters. And I hope it will come sooner than later along this line. Let me insist here, that your introductions of wolves is not a, something based on science. It is based on advocacy, by animal righteous groups, and so on, some of which were thinking that in the best of faith that there will be some sort of a balance struck between wolves and wildlife. There never has been a balance struck. In the 1960s. I studied mountain sheep, stone sheep and mountain goats and so on. In the Spatsizi in the British Columbia. It was a wild paradise. It was a wild paradise beyond belief, almost. When my wife and I in September 1961 went on this Spatsizi Plateau, the first thing that we saw was the gathering of the bulls of the caribou bulls, that was about a 250 to 300 yards gathering of bulls, and it was just a wall of antlers in front of us. That's how common they were. And the very first valley that I went up after building my cabin, while there to study stone sheep, there 22 sheep 22 Rams and that valley. There are 15 rams of the other valley over. I spent eight weeks studying the 22 Rams amongst them was old Curley, who probably would have beaten the Chadwick Ram in terms of horn sides in that time. This was a wildlife paradise. Today, that area is wildlife desert. Why? Because we "protected it". It became an A Provincial Park and wolves were protected now all of a sudden. Let me give you very briefly what actually we discovered about wolf abundance. You are well aware of that, uh, there is an understanding that American wolves don't attack people and don't kill people. Well, they do. Occasionally, like the Canton Carnegie event in 2005, and I was one of the three scientists chosen by the family to investigate the killing of that wonderful young man. But at any rate, it is true that the North American wolf is standing historically, almost by itself, the attacks on people that are so rare, but here is the answer to it. In that huge country, Canada and Alaska, you had a approximately 60,000 trappers, which had trap lines. And in the 19... 20s,30s 40s 50s 60s up to the 70s these trappers relied on dog teams for transportation. They were no Skidoos was available in those days. As long as these trappers depended on dog teams, they were not compatible with wolves, because wolves do destroy dogs and dog teams. Secondly, these wolves were destroying trap lines. They follow trap lines and they destroy fur and in the 1920s 30s 40s and so on, if the fur trapper made $500 during a trapping season, he was a rich man. And for this reason, the destruction of fur was a very, very painful event. So this was another reason why they tried to keep wolves down. The third reason is that when wolves come into a landscape in which there is wildlife, there is panic. In the wildlife, absolute panic, mountain goats disappear, mountain sheep disappear. Every moose get out there, and I've seen this every two weeks. While I was studying for two winters and two summers, mountain sheep in the Spatsizi, because wolves came roughly every two weeks, there were only seven wolves, by the way. There had been nine, I shot two, and they were giants, absolute giants of wolves. And I didn't realize what that meant till today. But what it means was the following, that under these conditions that we had in the 19, in the 19th century, wolves were outnumbered by trappers by about two to one, maybe even more than that. And on top of that, the government was involved in wolf control, but throwing poisoned horse meat out of aircraft, onto lakes and rivers and so on so forth, because they were afraid of hydatid disease, which is a very terrible disease, and they were also afraid at times of rabbid wolves because that's a normal in the normal cycle of wolves. They do get rabies, and rabies is a terrible, terrible disease. So what we had in the 19th century was a, were wolves, which are very smart, they have larger brains than dogs do, by the way, they roam very far. And they were meeting continuously, not only hostile trappers, but a hostile populace in the countryside that lived there as well. And in several landscapes, we had Conservation Officers systematically removing wolves at that time point. So what we had a situation of depressed wolves, very, very abundant wildlife as a consequence, the remaining wolves were still in packs. And because of the abundant wildlife, they grow into giants, and that's what I still experienced as a young zoologist, and so on. The very first wolf that I shot, I couldn't lift it was an enormous, wolf enormous beast.
Keith Mark 11:57
You know, so go ahead
Val Geist 11:59
and had that that time was very shy wolves, which were not dangerous at all. I'm guarantee you that. Because I was very active. That no... I have been, I was attacked actually twice by wolves. Once by the first wolf that I shot. It got the bullet right behind the shoulder blade through the lungs. He turned and attacked me. And so I saw what it looks like. But he collapsed very quickly. Another time it was young wolves that mistook me for maybe a lame deer on the lake in wintertime. And they came in racing towards me, but they change their mind and at about 15 paces from me. And when they changed their mind, they hit the brakes and slipped on the ice and fell on their back. And it was hilarious to say the least. I didn't kill them. The, uh, I've also been attacked by coyotes, by the way. I've been attacked by grizzly bears. I've been treed by grizzly bears, and I've been attacked by black bears three times myself. I haven't been attacked by mountain lions yet. But that can happen any time because they're found around my house in on Vancouver Island. So yes, the reason American were not not attacking people was because of that unique circumstance where we had a network of trapping, trappers as well as a fairly reasonably large population living that were hostile to wolves, and that kept them very well educated. The number of wolves killed by trappers was actually quite low. It was about one wolf killed per five trappers per year. That's what the data where the trappers got a bonus for the show, as such.
Keith Mark 13:44
Huh.
Val Geist 13:44
So, the answer why these wolves were so docile resides in the fact that they had a very large experience with hostile human beings. And besides that, any wolf that became rabid, was killed very quickly because they are living in a countryside where almost everybody carried a gun. This was one of the beauties.
Right On The Mark 14:05
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation, Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God, family, country, conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org. , today,
Keith Mark 14:23
Y ou know, it seems to me that the way our media, and just the way storytellers in general have approached the wolf has changed dramatically from the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.
Val Geist 14:41
Ah, yes.
Keith Mark 14:42
It used to be in fairy tales, and there was a reason behind almost all of those
Val Geist 14:47
That's right.
Keith Mark 14:47
Fairy Tales by the way,
Val Geist 14:48
That's right.
Keith Mark 14:48
The wolf was portrayed that human children should be very fearful of and weary of the wolf because it's our ancestors realized what the wolf was capable of. And now, children these days are taught that the wolf is a cuddly, he's your friend.
Val Geist 15:08
Right.
Keith Mark 15:09
Don't fear the wolf. We should love the wolf. And I think this is setting the stage for just some terrible tragedies to come with wolf and human interactions going forward. What's your thoughts on that?
Val Geist 15:23
Well, you are absolutely right, because these tragedies have happened already. And probably one of the most tragic events was in Kolmardon Zoo in Sweden just a few years ago, where they have with it, there was a deliberate attempt to mislead the public. Basically, that's how I read. They showed how cuddly wolves were just as you said, it was the lady that was with the wolves. And I was horrified when I saw that because I know something about the behavior of wolves in captivity and in human care. And yes, the wolves killed her. And ate her.
Keith Mark 16:03
So, unchecked,
Val Geist 16:06
That's not the only one, she's not the only because they'll be more examples of just that.
Keith Mark 16:10
So unchecked, Mr. Geist, children at school bus stops, children at camp
Val Geist 16:20
Right.
Keith Mark 16:20
Families on holiday.
Val Geist 16:23
Right.
Keith Mark 16:23
I mean, it seems to me that we're on a very dangerous trajectory with the wolf.
Val Geist 16:30
Well, you're disrespecting the wolf. In the, by the way, you were very correct about the past. And one reason why this was such a horrible situation was when the wolf becomes rabid, they run amok and they run through the countryside biting everything. And there were stories of up to 22 people being bitten by rabid wolves. But of course, if you get bitten by rabid wolves, you're dead. Because you will get rabies and you die. And even a nick of the skin by rabbid wolves was a death sentence. That's why the people were so afraid of wolves, and rightly so. In other words, what we're thinking of fairytales aren't fairy tales. Well, there's some very good studies have been carried on in Europe by Professor (inintelligble). In France, for instance, he wrote his first book when he had recorded 3,500 deaths by wolves in France. And he is now up to over 9000. And he also said in an interview that if the historical records have been complete, which they were not, because of the many wars that France experienced, the many churches that were burned, and records destroyed, he would have over 100,000 deaths by wolves in France.
Keith Mark 17:48
Wow.
Val Geist 17:48
There's a very, very good book written in 1770, an encyclopedia of hunting and forestry, by the way, in German, and they describe their understanding of wolves. And the understanding of wolves is that it is a very, very, very dangerous predator that made it so difficult after the 30 year war, which was 1618 to 1648, that they couldn't settle wolves, areas for a very long time, until they managed to control wolves. Such that historically, we have some interesting information along that line.
Keith Mark 18:28
Is the wolf, an endangered species as we sit here?
Val Geist 18:32
No. Never. The wolf is not an endangered species. That is a very, very, very bald faced misinformation. It's a, it's widespread in the Northern Hemisphere. And it it can hold itself extremely well against people. I'll give you an interesting, I think it's interesting example. In Japan, the wolf was considered by the populace, a holy animal. And they even built altars in favor of wolves. And the reason for that was that the samurai had disarmed the peasantry, and the peasantry had no weapons to defend themselves against wild boars and deer marauding on their land. So what they tried to do was to attract the wolves in order to control the deer and the pigs. And that worked quite well for some time. And then rabies struck. Now a rabid wolf is something terrible. I mean, he races through the countryside, attacks everything, bites everything. And the Japanese exterminated the wolf by 1905. So it went from the holy animal to its total extinction by human hands because of the consequences of having it. As I said, it's hard to say what is going to happen in the future because your court systems are unpredictable in this regard.
Keith Mark 20:05
Well, as you know, right now, the current administration in the United States is trying to undo what the Trump administration had done as far as the delisting of the wolf.
Val Geist 20:17
Right.
Keith Mark 20:17
Which simply meant that wolves would be on the management chart with all of the other wildlife. We would manage wolves the way we manage deer, the way we manage elk, the way we manage fill in the blank, by removing that special protection that had just been arbitrarily put on the wolves. Then they could be managed, which obviously, managing an apex predator is an extremely important component if you want to manage all of the wildlife in the vicinity of or the habitat of that wolf. Well, as we sit here now, we have an administration that is looking to bend to the pressures of these anti-hunting
Val Geist 20:28
Right.
Keith Mark 21:05
these PETA organizations, and placing that endangered monicker back on the wolf, which will prevent states where this crisis has just become exactly that a terrible crisis from managing the wolves.
Val Geist 21:21
That's right.
Keith Mark 21:21
And if that happens, Mr. Geist, if, for a prolonged period of time, the wolf is continued to be introduced to places like Texas, and Colorado, and then remains unchecked under the the the pretext that they are endangered. What is the end result for us here?
Val Geist 21:43
Well, the end result is that you lose your hunting and they use your hunters as such. And besides, you will lose your second amendment at the same time, because what keeps your second amendment in place is wildlife. Wildlife is your justification for being armed. That's been well thought out in the past. But let me tell you this...
Keith Mark 22:07
Before you get to the next part, you just said something that is just so profound. So in your opinion, the best protection of the Second Amendment is the American Hunter, because they are the pretext for keeping the government from disarming the American populace. Is that your thought?
Val Geist 22:28
Correct, that's right. Wildlife is your protector of your Second Amendment. Yes, that's right. And when you have no wildlife left to hunt, you have no justification for firearms.
Keith Mark 22:40
Wow, that's a very scary thought, sir.
Val Geist 22:44
Well, I'm sorry, but you better think yourself through on these things?
Keith Mark 22:48
Right.
Val Geist 22:49
And act consequently, yeah?
Keith Mark 22:50
Right. And you know, it's a great place right now for me to plug. I'm actually the founder of an organization called Hunter Nation, and our great president and CEO, Luke Hilgemann and our organization was the group that actually sued the state of Wisconsin, when they refused to have a wolf season. And we actually beat them in court. And, and it made them open up a hunting season in Wisconsin, where we killed I believe, 216 wolves in a 72 hour period, which was at least a start in managing wolves in Wisconsin, but that was our group, the Hunter Nation. And those of you that are just tuning in, don't know anything about Hunter Nation, I, I really encourage you, because these things that Mr. Geist is talking about. This is real life stuff. I mean, this is a destruction of deer and elk, and moose and really a destruction of everything that our forefathers had created with the North American model of conservation, by this ruse that they're perpetrating on us with the wolf. And the wolf is dismantling and destroying our wildlife population, with the destruction of the wildlife population leads to the destruction of hunting with the destruction of hunting is the destruction of the American Hunter. Once the American Hunter is destroyed, we're disarmed. We become helpless. We become slaves to a tyrannical government, if you will. And that is exactly why you must, you must go to HunterNation.org. And you need to get involved. You need to join this army, this grassroots army of hunters that we've just said, we're not going to have this. We're going to fight you in the court. We're gonna fight you wherever we must fight you to preserve these rights.
Sadly, God took Mr. Geist home on July 7, 2021, only weeks after we recorded this interview. After our recording was stopped, we had made plans for more interviews with Mr. Geist. And we had hopes of bringing our film crew up to his home in Canada. And he was writing an article about the North American hunter and predator management to be read on HunterNation.org's website. Unfortunately, he never completed that article. Sure, we've had bigger celebrities on the podcast, but I don't know that I've ever met anyone with more knowledge and experience on the subject of wolves, and predator management. I know our time with him was very short but it was packed with so much information and expertise. And I knew this was a man that I would love to share a campfire with. So, in closing, I would urge everyone listening to remember Mr. Geist's message to the North American Hunter. He firmly believed that we hunters are the last defense in our fight to protect the Second Amendment and the very right to keep and bear arms. He told us plainly, hunters must unite, that hunters must work together and stop fighting amongst ourselves if we're going to save this perfect hunting lifestyle. And I would like to ask all of you listening, that when you hit your knees this evening, to say a prayer for the peaceful repose of the soul of Val Geist.
Right On The Mark 26:47
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation Studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021.
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark Episode 16, recorded July 2021, featuring internationally renowned wildlife expert Val Geist starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, compound, traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter on award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunter's lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hotheaded, but when it comes to all things God family country and hunting he's Keith Mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 0:44
The next episode feature discussions with one of the foremost experts on big game animals in North America. Val Geist, you probably don't recognize his name because he's never sought the spotlight. And when he did take center stage, of course, the mainstream media ignored him and his message. Mr. Geist, was born in the Ukraine and was raised in Austria and Germany. As a youngster, he was ridiculed by peers and turned to the woods and wild places for the comfort they provide, just as many hunters have. Through his long life, he was a rugged big game hunter, a highly educated biologist who went on to become a professor. He was a prolific writer and a passionate lover of animals. He helped to provide the framework for the North American Model of Conservation, and he was a vocal advocate for predator management. We were blessed to share the time we had with Mr. Geist. And what you're about to hear, was most likely his last interview, as God took him home just two weeks after our recording. I've struggled with the decision of whether to go forward with these episodes. But I'm confident that Val Geist would want his message to be heard. Whatever your feelings about the need for hunting and predator management, you absolutely should listen to the thoughts and beliefs of this unparalleled expert on these subjects. Speaking for everyone here at Right On The Mark, podcast, conservation, wildlife and all wild places has lost a true champion with the passing of Val Geist. Mr. Geist was certainly a friend to the North American hunters. And we dedicate these three shows to his lifetime of learning, hard work, advocacy, and his many hunting adventures. Godspeed, and God bless Val Geist. Welcome back to the conclusion of Right On The Mark this week. Our guest, of course, is Val Geist. And I tell you, I mean, I hope you guys were as entertained. And as informed as I've been. I mean, Josh, this has been incredible.
Josh Ishmael 3:00
Oh yeah, no doubt.
Keith Mark 3:00
I've learned so much. I feel like there's still so much more that we can learn. But with the time constraints that we have, first of all, Mr. Geist, thank you from the bottom of my heart, I've really enjoyed quite an honor actually to have you on as a guest.
Val Geist 3:13
You are welcome.
Keith Mark 3:13
So I'd like to just give you the mic to conclude. What are your final thoughts on maybe what we can do what we should do? What your final thoughts are for today on this topic?
Val Geist 3:27
Well, first of all, get informed. That's the most important thing, and use science and history to inform yourself about wolves, and then act consequently, and people that have acted consequently, like for instance, the Alaska...staff.. see them as a good example. They recognize the predator pit. They recognize that is wolf control that will bring wildlife back for human consumption. And that is their official policy. So you have already examples of where wolves are properly, and bears by the way, a properly managed. And under no circumstances should you believe that introducing wolves into settled landscapes will retain wolves under natural conditions. It doesn't. It destroys the wolf. So you're in this very, very deep contradiction in your country to say the very least about it. Let's get science back. Let's get facts back. Yeah. Let's have a library card and see what other people are trying to tell us over hundreds of years where their experience because they're just as valid then, as it were valid today.
Keith Mark 4:37
One of the things that you hear in the States, that we shouldn't allow hunting of any animal that we do not eat or consume,
Val Geist 4:47
That's rubbish.
Keith Mark 4:48
Which would in essence, end all predator hunting, whether that would be bears mountain lions...
Val Geist 4:55
That's right.
Keith Mark 4:55
..the wolf. What's your take on the importance of predator management and the argument that hunters should not hunt anything they don't eat.
Val Geist 5:05
I think this idea is absolute rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Because when you kill a bear, particularly black bear, you have a wonderful hide. And it is a wonderful hide to sleep on. And it's so warm and so cozy, and so terrific. And you will realize that our ancestors knew something when they were using bear skins to sleep on. Believe you me, same thing with the wolf, as well. As far as bears are concerned, black bears, particularly spring, and grass fed bears have superlative meat. And so relative fat for human consumption. I know, because my wife was enthusiastic about bear fat, as something to make pies with, as an example. The bears that are feeding on fish and so on, are not very good to eat. And there's nothing wrong with burying them as far as it's concerned. But taking the hide, yes, you should kill with purpose. And when I hunt and kill a bear it isn't for fun. There is a purpose behind it. That is granted.
Keith Mark 6:11
Mr. Geist, what role has media played in the propaganda behind the way the public views the wolf?
Val Geist 6:22
A very unfortunate negative one. They have not reported on things that I've said for instance, in public meetings. The, uh, for instance, I investigated and published a paper by the way, on the death of Kenton Carnegie. And the reason Kenton Carnegie died is because of the legislation in Saskatchewan. Had that poor young man landed in British Columbia, he wouldl be alive and well today. But he landed in Saskatchewan, where the legislation protected rules, which generated garbage wolves that generate habituated wolves and they killed Kenton Carnegie. None of that was reported in the media, although I tried and tried and tried. I informed the Canadian pardon me the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation twice on that, they didn't report it. I reported to the National Post, they didn't report on it, and so on, so forth. So there was I also gave a talk, for instance, in Colorado and I was amazed to see that absolutely nothing what what I said the appeared in the papers, although the the there were journalists present. So I must say that your journalists are not doing their job.
Keith Mark 7:39
At least not honestly.
Val Geist 7:41
Well, they have to be probed about this. What I'm telling you you can go and read up for God's sake, all he needs to have is a library card.
Keith Mark 7:50
Mr. Geist, earlier in our discussion you called the coyote the small wolf.
Val Geist 7:56
Yes, correct.
Keith Mark 7:57
In America right now, there is a huge up cry to stop hunting coyotes.
Val Geist 8:05
Yes, I understand that.
Keith Mark 8:06
And you know, coyotes used to be trapped. And when trapping
Val Geist 8:10
Right.
Keith Mark 8:10
became non lucrative and almost frowned upon, there is such a diminished amount of trapping that the coyote populations have now...
Val Geist 8:19
Soared, they have soared.
Keith Mark 8:20
soared, out of control
Val Geist 8:21
Yes, I'm familiar with them
Keith Mark 8:21
And so in some states, they have what's called coyote calling contest with the hope of getting hunters interested to come out and actually do their conservation part in thinning the small wolf/coyote herds if you will. They are trying right now to ban coyote hunting contest, your thoughts on that?
Val Geist 8:46
What do you are trying to restore is by and large biodiversity, in which the ungulates, the deer, the elk and moose and so on, have the part to play. If you let coyotes and wolves take over, there's not going to be any of that. In fact, there will be minimum and you have an empty landscape. You have the wildlife desert, the wild that I was talking about. As far as I'm concerned, these coyote contests are doing a lot of good at the present time precisely because they're allowing biodiversity to resurface. And please your national parks have now admitted that their protectionism has led to a decrease of biodiversity in their protected areas, and an increase in invasive species. In fact, about 6500 invasive species that we know of, well, that is not conservation. That's a farce!,
Keith Mark 9:40
Mr. Geist, I'm sure you saw the famous video that tried to scientifically prove that the increased wolf population in Yellowstone had led to positive restoration.
Val Geist 9:55
That is a farce that came out of England.
Keith Mark 9:58
Tell me about that.
Val Geist 10:00
Well, that was one of these concoctions that was bred because there are papers by scientists that refute that. And I've read them, I can't remember the right now the names and so on, I would have told you, but that is one of those. (sigh) Well, we're dealing with environmental movement that is driven by ideology. But it's not driven by any respect for science. And for any respect for fact. This is not the case. Speak to Charles Kay, for instance, who studied the ecology of Yellowstone Park for his PhD process. And he's continued on and he has a book written about the Yellowstone, which I understand he has difficulty publishing, precisely because it contravenes the conventional now, view of the of environmentalists, but the, the situation at Yellowstone has, in many regards, remained. There's very, very few places indeed, where some regeneration has taken place. And as I said, what you have been told is simply a very lovely fairy tale.
Keith Mark 11:09
In fact, are you familiar with Allan Savory and his work?
Val Geist 11:14
Well, it rings a bell with the present time
Keith Mark 11:16
Allan Savory is is the biologist and wildlife studier,
Val Geist 11:22
Oh, yes.
Keith Mark 11:22
that basically is of the premise, he's from Africa, and his work proves that the more ungulates that we have, the better
Val Geist 11:31
Oh, yes, Savory, you're right! That's an excellent work,
Keith Mark 11:34
Right.
Val Geist 11:35
Yeah, I remember now what you're talking about.
Keith Mark 11:36
So Allan Savory's work is actually contrary to that piece on how the wolf by destroying the ungulates has improved the habitat restoration in Yellowstone. It's direct, contrary to Allan savory in his fine documented, well scientifically proven work that its the opposite.
Val Geist 11:57
Well, wait a second, I read the paper about a couple of months ago, where a fortified biologist from the United States has, basically expose these fallacies. I would say, contact Charles Kay. Charles is very, very well informed. He's not well liked. But he's very well informed about the Yellowstone situation. And he has at his fingertips relevant literature that you can read to your satisfaction. I'm happy to tell you the following. I wrote this originally, because I was in a dispute with my colleagues of the Canadian wildlife service, which in the 1970s, were trying to introduce deer ranching, the commercial deer ranching to Canada. And I said well gentlemen, if you do that you will destroy your system of wildlife conservation. And they shot back what system of wildlife conservation, we do not have a system of wildlife conservation. And I said, you damn well do and I'll write it down for you and I did. The basic system of wildlife conservation in North America is almost 180 degrees reversal from what the Europeans have been doing. And I am a European and I have studied European wildlife management. I've also hunted in Europe, incidentally. And the basis of your system of wildlife conservation was accumulated over time, were basically seven basic policies that allowed wildlife to thrive. And that's all written down and is available for for reading. And it is one of the great achievements of North American society. And it shows also something very rather unique almost, and namely that wildlife maintained in the public trust can be maintained as such. But your system of wildlife conservation is based on the idea that wild life is produced for human consumption, not only for human enjoyment, but for human consumption, and there is a tremendous value in this wildlife as such. And that's exactly what this is all about. The rest, you can read up. Since we are together, we might as well. You see, I studied mountain sheep in a wildlife paradise. Today, it's a wildlife desert. And it became a wildlife desert when it became a Provincial Park. And everything was protected. And so you generated a predator pit situation at the present time. What prevented it previously, were two things. The area was a very large area was under control of a outfitter. And that outfitter brought in horses at very great expense. It was difficult because so far away. And these horses were precious, so they could not be killed by wolves in wintertime. Then he hired native people that used as a transportation dog sleds. So these natives were very, very used to controlling wolves. And the result of these natives living in that area, hunting themselves and traveling. And having now the obligation to look after the horses, reduced the wolf population, it didn't eliminate wolves. That's the irony behind it. If you managed to get a well managed system and you have lots of ungulates and wildlife around, you will have some wolves living in packs. In fact, you will have more wolves than if you let them go. And you develop a predator pit situation. In the predator pit there's hardly any wolves. So in other words, management for wildlife abundance maintains wolf populations too. And it makes giants out of wolves because of the very large amount of wildlife available for them. And these gigantic wolves do not breed with coyotes or with dogs. Believe you me. So this is a way to conserve wolves. These are the ironies that we have to deal with.
Keith Mark 16:06
Sir, I really appreciate your time today. Amazing. I'm hoping that as some of these issues continue to unfold down here in the States that you will come back and join us. I would be very interested in seeing if we could get you to write a short piece dedicated, dedicated just to the Hunter Nation website, to help us inform the American hunters of the pitfalls that they're just about to face because of truly their ignorance. And if you can help us I'd sure appreciate it, sir.
Val Geist 16:40
You're welcome.
Keith Mark 16:41
Ladies and gentlemen. That was Mr. Val Geist. Just a wonderful, wonderful guest. Josh, I don't know about you, but I would personally like to just send this recording, to all 16 million plus American hunters, force them to listen to what this man had to say today. Because if if, if they don't realize the path that we're on in the past that were allowing a narrative, a false narrative, if you will, to push the American hunter through the populace, that it will be the end of this lifestyle, it will be the end of the traditional values of hunting and, and all of the things that go with that in this country.
Josh Ishmael 17:23
Right. And what I liked the most is he he spoke up fact right it was never like it was never his own. I guess it'd be his his. It was fact, right.
Keith Mark 17:35
That's the thing that when you fight these anti hunters, PETA people
Emotion,
it's all emotion, hey, with your gift of $25 we'll send you this cuddly cute wolf toy that your child can sleep with. So your child can cuddle with the cuddly Wolf, you know, and it's the same wolf that that child will grow up not fearing that will ultimately devastate them, you know, and so, you know, ladies and gentlemen, if again, and I know this is a broken record, if you've not gone to HunterNation.org. If if today's guest doesn't at least intrigue you enough to go do that, then I really I don't know, I'm disappointed in my fellow Hunter. So please go to HunterNation.org. And take a look. And when you listen to this podcast today, please share it with a fellow hunter two or three because this information, we must get it out to all hunters again. Thanks for joining us. If you come back next time, we'll have another Right On The Mark podcast.
Sadly, God took Mr. Geist home on July 7 2021, only weeks after we recorded this interview. After our recording was stopped, we had made plans for more interviews with Mr. Geist a nd we had hopes of bringing our film crew up to his home in Canada. And he was writing an article about the North American hunter in predator management to be read on HunterNation.org's website. Unfortunately, he never completed that article. Sure, we've had bigger celebrities on the podcast, but I don't know that I've ever met anyone with more knowledge and experience on the subject of wolves and predator management. I know our time with him was very short, but it was packed with so much information and expertise. And I knew this was a man that I would love to share a campfire with. So in closing, I would urge everyone listening to remember Mr. Geist's message to the North American Hunter. He firmly believed that we hunters are the last defense in our fight to protect the Second Amendment and the very right to keep and bear arms. He told us plainly hunters must unite. That hunters must work together and stop fighting amongst ourselves if we're going to save this perfect hunting lifestyle, and I would like to ask all of you listening, that when you hit your knees this evening, to say a prayer for the peaceful repose of the soul of Val Geist.
Right On The Mark 20:25
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation Studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions, produced in conjunction with BLT Productions. Copyright 2021.
Episode 11 -13 featuring Michael Martin Murphey
Michael Martin Murphey is truly an iconic singer, songwriter and performer who lives a lifestyle we can all relate to. When he isn’t entertaining his legion of fans around the country and the world, he ranches, he hunts, and he donates time and money to preserve the Western culture.
He is also a good friend to ROTM’s host, Keith Mark and these two settle in for a series of conversations you don’t want to miss.
Episode 11 - In this week’s part 1 of a 3-part interview, Michael Martin Murphey joins his good friend and host of ROTM, Keith Mark for stories of his music, hunting and more. Murph is truly an iconic singer, songwriter and performer who lives a lifestyle we can all relate to
This week starts with a discussion of his early days of hunting and music. Murph was a natural at an early age and made his debut at his family’s church at a very young age. He was gifted a toy ukulele and taught himself to play. He still doesn’t read music in the traditional sense.
Murph explains how much of his music has the roots in all things related to nature and wide-open spaces. He tells an inspiring story of how the works and ideology of St. Francis touches him at deep level. You’ll understand why when you hear him share this inspiration.
Episode 12 -In this week’s part 2 of a 3-part interview, Michael Martin Murphey and host of ROTM, Keith Mark discuss what qualifications it takes to calls oneself an “environmentalist” and “conservationist” and how hunting is so important to both the environment and conservation.
Murph explains how musicians and singers have played a big role in activist movements dating back to 1960s and up through today. He sees his role in protecting hunting rights by being involved in Hunter Nation, along with Ted Nugent, Craig Morgan and other celebrities, as a vital way of giving back and preserving a way of life.
The episode wraps up with a discussion of the song, “Home On The Range” and the interesting story of how it came to be and almost didn’t.
Episode 13 - In this week’s part 3 of a 3-part interview, Michael Martin Murphey and host of ROTM, Keith Mark talk about Native American culture and why Murph was adopted into the Lakota Nation.
They discuss how the pandemic affected his annual concert tour schedule and what Murph did to stay connected to his audience and feed his love of entertaining.
They reflect on the variety of projects they have worked on together including Murph providing the narrator’s voice for a movie Keith produced titled, “A Thanksgiving Classic”. This program was inspired by a short story Keith wrote about his childhood and aired on Outdoor Channel. Murphey donated his time and talent to provide the narration for the movie.
Keith also produced a DVD of Murph’s “Cowboy Christmas” which was filmed live at the Paramount Theater in Austin, TX and also aired on Outdoor Channel and Public Television. Finally, Murph donated his time to entertain a number of private audiences for Hunter Nation to help raise interest and awareness for the non-profit, grassroots organization fighting to protect every hunters rights.
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation - HunterNation.org
Guest Links:
Episode 10 featuring John Wayne Walding
John Wayne Walding was born in Texas on the 4th of July and is about as patriotic a person as you will find. He grew hunting with his grandfather and the patience, fortitude and other skills he learned through hunting would eventually save his life and the lives of others around him.
John Wayne Walding was born in Texas on the 4th of July and is about as patriotic a person as you will find. He grew hunting with his grandfather and the patience, fortitude and other skills he learned through hunting would eventually save his life in a faraway land.
Months before 9/11, John Wayne made the decision to serve his country by joining the military. He was in basic training when the towers feel on the September day.
With his name being John Wayne, you have to know he got more than his share of grief as he became a Green Beret. The hazing came to a quick halt when the bullets started flying in the Shok Valley of Afghanistan. In that desolate valley, 75 of his friendlies held off over 200 heavily armed enemy combatants for nearly seven hours in an ambush they resulted in eight Purple Heart injuries. The complete story of the battle is told in the book, “No Way Out”.
John Wayne was hit and barely survived. One leg was nearly severed, and he had to tie it to his torso and then climb off the mountainside he and his team were pinned down on.
Today, thanks to an incredible medic in the field, excellent medical after his evacuation and high-tech prosthetics, he is physical marvel. He went back and trained to become a Special Ops sniper, the first amputee to do so. Today,
He hunts in some of the most rugged terrain and loves the challenge. He also gives back through his business and charitable work. You won’t want to miss this inspiring talk with a true American hero.
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation - HunterNation.org
Shadow Warriors Project - ShadowWarriorsProject.org
Guest Links:
JWW’s Logistics Company - GallantryLogistics.com/jww/
JWW’s Charitable Organization - LiveToGive.com/pages/about
Episode 9 featuring Ralph and Vicki Cianciarulo
America’s favorite bow hunting couple, Ralph and Vicki Cianciarulo join ROTM’s host, Keith Mark to share stories of the old archery shop, Archer’s Choice near downtown Chicago where they got their start with customers like Bo Jackson, Walter Payton, Kurt Russel and more. They also discuss challenges to the hunting lifestyles and their 20 plus years of hosting TV shows.
This episode is full of laughter and some serious discussions as Ralph and Vicki Cianciarulo join ROTM’s host, Keith Mark to talk about the old days and the new things they have going on.
As parents of the son, RJ himself a budding TV star and hunter, Ralph an Vicki are very concerned about current efforts to raise the legal age to hunt in some parts of the country. They took RJ out when he was very young, and they can’t imagine someone telling them they can’t.
Ralph and Vicki were among Keith’s earliest mentors when he was considering hosting his own program, MacMillan River Adventures and they reminisce about their early days. They tell stories of their high-profile customers at the archery shop in Chicago. Bo Jackson, Walter Payton, Kurt Russel, many of the Cubs players were all frequent and loyal customers who became friends. Sadly, they often heard from these celebrities that they press agents instructed their clients not to talk in public about their passion for hunting and the lifestyle.
Ralph and Vicki are huge moose hunting fans and have frequented Keith’s outfitting operation in the Yukon, MacMillan River Adventures and they all share stories of the monster moose they have encountered- some a little close for comfort.
The show wraps up with new archery products they are using, new programs they have in the pipeline along with their son, RJ’s new project.
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation - HunterNation.org
Shadow Warriors Project ShadowWarriorsProject.org
Ted Nugent.com - TedNugent.com
Guest Links:
Ralph & Vicki Info - https://www.archerschoicemedia.com/bio/
Archer’s Choice Media https://www.archerschoicemedia.com/
Off Grid Digital Show https://www.archerschoicemedia.com/video-category/off-grid/
Outdoor Channel - OutdoorChannel.com - Hosts Ralph and Vicki Cianciarulo
Keith Mark 0:00
This week's Right On The Mark has a special meaning to me because when I was first asked to do a television show on outdoor channel, I had actually been on a hunt with Ralph and Vicki since Rulon. I was actually standing in their kitchen when they lived in Illinois. And I was just talking to them about it, and Ralph's advice was, don't do it. No, actually, they were my biggest fans from the start. And that's only fair because I have literally been their biggest fans from their onset. So this is going to be a fun podcast, Ralph and Vicki Sansa reuleaux America's favorite hunting couple coming up here on Right On The Mark
Right On The Mark 0:44
Right On The Mark episode nine featuring Ralph and Vicki Sansa rouleau record in spring of 2021 starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 1:28
Well, welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast. And I tell you what, I'm excited today because I have two of my favorite personalities in the outdoor world. And two of my good hunting friends, Ralph and Vicki, Sansa really welcome guys. And brother, how are you? Thanks for having us. You know, I'm doing great for an old guy. But you know, I just got to be honest with you guys. I always thought that Vicki and Ralph, America's hunting couple had had almost a little better ring to it.
Unknown Speaker 1:56
I would agree. I would agree. 100%. You know, we've been trying to change that. And he just you know, he keeps trying to say Vicki's alphabetically ours before v. So
Unknown Speaker 2:03
let me just give you I can only just so you know, you're covered. And I'll give it one more. So you can hear?
Keith Mark 2:15
Oh, yeah, we hear it. You know, honestly, you know, we've been friends for a long, long time. I was there. I was. Pleasure. Oh, listen, I was fans of you guys on outdoor television. Long before I had the opportunity to do outdoor television. In fact, I can remember standing in your kitchen, years ago, getting advice from you guys about outdoor television. And as I recall, I think I distinctly remember Ralph saying don't do it. Yeah, we practice what we preach, right? Yeah, do it. Well, listen, I'm glad that you didn't. It's a shame that we have elected politicians and unelected bureaucrats, telling hunters all across the nation, how to hunt, when to hunt, who we can teach to hunt, but it really hits home with me. And I'm going to guess with you guys, when they start putting an age limit on it. What's your take on that? Oh, boy, let's
Unknown Speaker 3:11
get started. Here's what's crazy. And it's, I want to make sure we're not biased of anybody where you live, you know, rural, urban, in the country. We live we live, you know, pretty world. Our children are able to start driving it like 14 years. I mean, because to help with the school bus locations, you know, and so many other than everything else is working on farms, they get a drive earlier. So we're really letting the kids do something that we know they're capable of, because of one, their upbringing. You know, I mean, parents take their time to teach their kids earlier because they spend more time with their kids not picking on urban at all. That's not what we're doing. But now we're turning around and we're telling, we're telling parents that they cannot expose their children to the great outdoors, because they're not of age. First off, I'm sorry, but am I wrong here? This is a lifestyle. You come into it.
Unknown Speaker 4:17
You got you got to look at it. You know what? You're going to teach them the right way. As a parent, that's what you want to do. And yeah, what you need to teach them young, right? Well, right. You've already gotten through starting boy crushes or girl crushes video games, you're going into all kinds of different high school, junior high high school sports, you're missing out on the opportunity to get them involved into the outdoors, and being able to start understanding what your management is and helping the dollars to support your DNR is and everything else that there's so much more to make them wait till 12 rj shot our son who's 20 years old now shot his first animal a hog wild hog in Florida right or days before his 50th birthday.
Keith Mark 4:57
Right
Unknown Speaker 4:58
now. That we were with him, we took the time, we had him shooting a 3d target, you know what I mean? I mean, just like any parent, they're invested in their child, and if they're not, shame on you, right. But I mean, the reality of it is, is we wanted him to understand it at, you know, at an early age, because we only have a short window to plant those seeds, right. So all of a sudden, you plant the seed, and we know we're going to lose them, they're going to go do other things, but they're going to return to their roots, right? 100% of these notes aren't planted at an early age, I'm going to tell you right now, we're screwed, right?
Keith Mark 5:38
I know, you I know, you guys, you live your life with you guys live your life with faith like I do here. And you know, I always took my responsibility of a parent, God gifted me three wonderful children. And, and with that gift, I've been given the responsibility to pass on my faith. And I don't wait to my kids get to a certain age, to teach them to pray, to take them to church, to read the Bible. I also have to pass on the fact that we have a fireplace, and we stay warm in the winter, because someone cuts firewood, my wife is given the responsibility to teach them things in the kitchen that I'm not capable of. But what other grown human being can tell us as parents better than what we know our kids are capable of it just it just doesn't make sense to me.
Unknown Speaker 6:39
I mean, even just to take them out and go squirrel hunting, you have to wait to 12 to do it.
Unknown Speaker 6:44
Well, I mean, here's what it is. It's my mind. It does. And we, you as a parent know your child. Yeah, you know, their capabilities, right? You know, their interests, and you try to build on those things. So, you know, how can somebody that doesn't have a clue who these kids are? Put a restriction like that. And it's ridiculous. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 7:06
walk backwards in time we're going to do and we're going backwards, maybe that's what they want. And it is what they want. That's what they want. let's admit it. Right, the rest of the world right now everyone's going backwards.
Keith Mark 7:18
So I do. I do believe it's anti hunting related. But I'm going to, I'm going to answer your question, Ralph, how they can do it. When we come back after this break.
Right On The Mark 7:28
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation. Hunter nation defends all of our traditional American values, God family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting Hunter nation.org. Today.
Keith Mark 7:47
Okay, Ralph, you asked the question before we went to break, how can they do this to us? I'll tell you how they've been able to get away with this Ralph is because less than half of licensed American hunters are voting. And so what ends up happening, guys, and you know this, I'm telling you something you already know. So why should politicians and unelected bureaucrats care what we think? We don't hold them accountable? Right? So with ours in numbers, that's right. So what's the solution?
Unknown Speaker 8:21
Get our people get get all of them, all of us who live this lifestyle, all of us. The only way the only way and the simplest, to kill to protect this lifestyle and tradition is to have a voice. Yep, absolutely. Thank you. So how do you get your voice, they just need to wake up and vote.
Keith Mark 8:42
That's what they need to do. So that's why every week I tell people, there's one organization out there that's protecting the American Hunter, and that's Hunter nation.org. I suggest everyone go to Hunter nation.org. And check out what they're doing. It's amazing stuff. But let's shift gears here a little bit. And tell the people at home that may or may not know about your guy's background, and I just love stories from the old archery shop and the people that I love the way you name drop, so well guys. Take us back to those early days. And please name drop like crazy. Oh my gosh.
Unknown Speaker 9:20
So when it all started and Ralph actually had an archery shop, no, we no longer have it. We sold it in 95. But it was in Berwyn, Illinois, it was called archers choice of all names. Go figure. Yeah. And it was located Yeah, it was located. Oh, what, 20 minutes from downtown Chicago. Yeah, it was it was close. Yeah, really close. And, you know, because he's a little shy sometimes, you know, broke, but he had some of the craziest athletes and people stopping in that shop and shooting. I mean, just I'll just name one right off the bat that had a key to the shop for himself was Bo Jackson. He'd come in and shoot whenever he wanted. He could go in the shop whenever he wanted to go Take a
Unknown Speaker 10:01
boat, take the load, take a new bow, he take arrows and he just mark it down. You know, I've got this you know, and he I mean, he's like send me a bill
Unknown Speaker 10:09
okay
Unknown Speaker 10:10
you know me I you know we sort of never really played the game you know to mention who we were very fortunate to know where Yeah, and you know, I mean, but both Walter Payton God rest his soul and his family we love them. You know, Keith Morell and Jody Davis. I mean, currently Fiske you know, Phil, Dr. Phil Clawson leverage strength trainer for a lot of those teams. You know, we
Unknown Speaker 10:39
at one point he had what locker room was like that the coat the coach was all pissed off at some guy named Ralph the head and
Unknown Speaker 10:46
we were, we were most of the Cubs were shooting at him all shoot, and we were we actually set up some 3d targets in Wrigley Field when you're shooting. And the coach walked in, and he and they would call the guys we're talking about bohan you know, and I mean, it's, you know, seasons coming up and, and Jody and all the guys and I guess they didn't play a real good game and they were still talking about bow hunting. And Coach walked in and just went, he goes, I'm gonna find this POS relph so just because these guys should be thinking more about So yeah, I think I caused some, maybe some.
Unknown Speaker 11:24
There was also a time that when they were filming that would be backdraft in Chicago. Oh yeah. And Kurt Russell had butthead asked if there's a local archery shop, but Kurt Russell came over to the archery shop and he was doing an interview with GQ magazine at the time. Wow. So when they showed up the writer was interviewing him was at the archery shop with them they
Unknown Speaker 11:44
pulled up in a limousine Keith intimated and this this girl she I think she was seven foot tall tall blonde
Keith Mark 11:52
they all looks a Ralph way too much they all look seven foot to you. Yeah, that's right. Guys. Anyway, back to the seven foot blonde that I'm thinking about.
Unknown Speaker 12:12
You know so so it Kurt Kurt it actually called the office asking for me. And, you know, I was at first I didn't believe it. And then Neil's Sure enough, it happened and he pulls up in a little ways. He just walks in. And I think what was fortunate is, you know, I didn't treat any of them different. either. I mean, they came, they came to you or I you know, they came to us because of what we love our passion and you know bluntness and, and setting up bows and teaching them how to shoot our tree and, and live the lifestyle. I mean, even though the you know, these individuals made more money than I'll ever see. that common denominator. Yeah, yeah, loving the outdoors. And a lot of them guess what? They didn't start at 12. You know, I mean, they had they had a little red Ryder bb gun at probably five or 13. And they went out plinking. And they did all that and, and they lived it and they passed it on to their family. And
Keith Mark 13:11
that's something.
Unknown Speaker 13:12
And that's what we've always been about. And just like you and you and honor nation, what people don't realize is we've never had a voice know, until now until this way you guys guys aren't doing. Yeah, see, because when all of a sudden when the media would all of a sudden go, hey, let's go Pete is going to be over here. Or you know, Humane Society is going to go, you know, petition, this show or the mainstream
Unknown Speaker 13:35
media just has their agenda and they don't let us they don't say what's actually happening out in the woods. It's what they want and on their agenda. Yeah, I mean, it's hard. But with everyone, all of us that are out there hunting and loving the lifestyle. Like you said only what you say 50% of the hunters are voting. Yes. That's so sad. What's going on in our nation right now? Yes. And I'm sure that's not okay. I won't go too political but I'm sure that's not the right percentage with the right votes that were just happened in November because that's all boom, boom, the malarkey.
Keith Mark 14:11
That's a whole nother topic. But I want to stay at the archery shop for a minute. What I think is the coolest part of that story is some of these celebrities that mainstream humans wouldn't even realize how passionate they were about this lifestyle. I mean, that is just cool. I mean, so let me ask you about some of them particularly was Kurt Russell cool, because span he sure was cool on screen.
Unknown Speaker 14:33
But he was awesome. He really was. And you know, I mean, he got him shooting a bow. He was all pumped up jacked up talking about hunting and you know, him and gold. They live out in Colorado. He didn't even mean they have a ranch. You know, again, what we did find out though a lot of their agents, their press agent, their press agents were like, you know, don't bring it out. Let's Let's not talk about honey. I mean, yes, and You know if you're going to go fishing let's talk about catch and release.
Keith Mark 15:04
I mean, let's let's put all the butter on things and that's how we moose on the Yukon Ralph. That's how we lose on the Yukon we catch and release. Yes. Well, let's talk about bow did did Bo know i mean they say bow nose did bow No. Could he hunt?
Unknown Speaker 15:22
I'll tell you this. He does two of the most gifted athletes have ever met. The Incredibles as far as archers, true archers, instinctive Walter Payton and Bo Jackson. They could grab any bow any bull and Walter he used to shoot a patchy style if you had a lot of people may not be that's three fingers under the arrow. No, really. So they come up and he ain't around Hi. And he'd be looking down the shaft just like that. Well could grab it one at one finger above two below. And both of them had the godly ability to pick up any bowl and within three or four shots. They were hitting the pie plate at 40 yards. Wow, instinctive. Wow, tell me God, God doesn't work in mysterious ways. given them you know, the not only the athletic abilities, but the abilities to do that. And they man I'm gonna tell you, Walter, and both still today. hunts like
Keith Mark 16:16
crazy. That's awesome. I want to I want to switch gears into your outdoor channel, endeavors and successes. But let's get to that right after this break.
Right On The Mark 16:27
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by kings cammo. offering the right clothing gear and accessories for all your outdoor needs. shop today at Kings cammo.com Kings cammo was an original and proud supporter of hunter nation.
Keith Mark 16:43
All right, we're here with Ralph and Vicky, since a ruler or Vicki and Ralph America's favorite hunting couple, as I like to say that you guys have had an incredible career in outdoor television, outdoor entertainment. And first of all, tell us how that all started. And you're just as passionate about what you did back then right now. I mean, so tell us about where you started and how you got to where you are.
Unknown Speaker 17:11
Wow, well, let's see. This year on the outdoor channels our 21st year and outdoor channel archers choice
Keith Mark 17:18
you started when you were six. You started when you were six. Right, Vicki, you started at age six.
Unknown Speaker 17:25
Yeah. Imagine like all these other shows are coming up with their flag. Whoo and Robin are gone. We're ready to retire now. 21 years later? No. But um, so actually, when I first when I bought my bullet Ralph's archery shop. Oh,
Keith Mark 17:40
it's actually how I met him. Yeah, she came in with her boyfriend go in Ralph's. Oh, my God, or
Unknown Speaker 17:48
what are you gonna do? But um, he was already at that time. You had already started doing some videos, videos on VHS, you know, those square things that used to have to put the machine by Do you know that tape them? Yeah. So he was doing videos. And from the hunting videos, and I kind of got involved with you. I started working at the shop with archery shop, and I could work a computer. So I actually started doing more the editing form. And then we went from videos to DVDs, and we were doing seminars and stuff like that. Well then all sudden, this outdoor channel thing comes around. And we were actually in antelope camp. And a couple of our friends are like, oh, have you guys checked out that outdoor channel? You guys should do this. You guys got the foot? Guys already goofy. You guys. There's no you know, husband and wife. I mean, all this crazy stuff. And we're like, we aren't men for TV. TV material. Well, the more we talk to people, they're like, No, you guys should definitely do this. So we did a we made a pilot in the outdoor channel and they got right back to us. They're like, absolutely. Let's get you going. We're like,
Keith Mark 18:53
awesome. Okay. And now 21 years later? Yeah. We're the first now we're the old guy. Yeah, exactly. You know what I tell you, I have been a fan of what you do all these years. And, and one of the things that I love about you guys? Well, I love a lot of things. But one of my most favorite things about you is that you celebrate hunting and all different disciplines of hunting. I mean, I don't think it was an accident that you you know, use the word choice, you know, when he originally archers choice, and then the choice. I mean, tell us about just that idea.
Unknown Speaker 19:35
Well, you know, the majority of our audience at the time already knew we were bowl hunters. I I didn't Gohan when I was growing up, you know, we had a little summer home a little cottage no insulation on the water and I mean, I I mom got me to you know, a little long bow and I would shoot spawn and carp and I would shoot squirrels and I would shoot at birds and you name it and so I wasn't happy with them. herberton go Well, multiple times. But um, you know, I mean, the crazy thing was is that that's what I grew up doing, and, and the passion for archery. But however, as we traveled more, and we saw, we saw that cannibalistic movement of our own people, I mean, just destroying each other, how dare you shoot a compound man? And so it should be traditional, you know? And then all of a sudden, well, you know, I'm a bow hunter, I'm a better hunter than you because you're a gun owner, and then the cross and then the cross, oh my gosh, and then the muzzleloader anyone online? Oh, I mean, all of these things in all the camps that we were going to, you could see it, you can and we're like, you know, Vicki, we have, we have an opportunity here,
Unknown Speaker 20:48
we have a platform that we can maybe point out to people you know, it doesn't matter with what's your hunting with. It does as long as it's legal in your state province, wherever you're at, go out, enjoy it and stop fighting amongst ourselves. Because you know what? We're ruining ourselves. We are like cross eyed cannibalistic is the best word for that. Because think about where we go. It doesn't matter where you're at, no matter where you go into a hunting camp somewhere. There's always that one person that has to say something negative about someone else's equipment, and it's sad.
Unknown Speaker 21:18
Well, and now let's throw in because this is pre keyboard time. You know, I mean, right? All of a sudden, all of a sudden, all his crazy stuff on social media. And I'm gonna I'm going to put it out there and I'm going to probably aggravate somebody. And here's the best way I can put it my analogy. keyboards give guys gonads that never had
Unknown Speaker 21:46
to sit there on their, in their living room. Like, I hate that was wrong, because I don't believe in it. And they Hurry up and they want to type it and they want my time. I'm gonna send an email to all of your sponsors.
Keith Mark 21:57
Yeah. Nice that you got to go there, right? Yes. Dear, you know, over a cornfield, right. And I'm sure you guys, and I'm sure you guys get the emails too that Oh, yeah, I'm a way better hunter and I would have made a better shot or I would have done this. I mean, again, like you said, the keyboard makes people feel like there's something else and, and, you know, I guess we've just been destined to live up to the stereotypical Well, we're not very smart hunters, right? And so hence, we don't vote and get policy shoved down our throat. Hence, we invite and anti hunters win every time we divide ourselves. Well, listen, we're gonna take another break. And when we come back, I want to talk Yukon moose hunting with you guys stick around. We'll be We'll be right back.
Right On The Mark 22:45
Our good friend Mark oz Geist, Benghazi hero and decorated veteran has a new mission. And you can help him help him honor Americans who have served our country silently behind enemy lines as contractors, and through their heroic and courageous acts have fallen or been injured. They need our help now. Visit shadow warriors project.com. That's shadow warriors. project.com these heroes gave a lot. the least we can do is give a little
Keith Mark 23:24
Okay, welcome back. We're with Ralph and Vicky. Sansa. rula from archers choice. Open Mic, guys. You know, you guys have so many experiences and things you've done I'm just gonna get I'm just gonna lean back in my chair and let you guys talk honey talk product talk Outfitters talk politics talk anything you want.
Unknown Speaker 23:46
Here's what I think we need to talk about. I'm just gonna jump right over Ralph, which you know, me to do. But anyways, um, I know, I think because of what's going on right now with the crazy pound dog and everything else that's allegedly going on, is we really need to talk about the Outfitters that's Yes, here in the States because you know what, they're still doing great. But the states that have over the counter tags, those Outfitters are running are going crazy, but all these Outfitters all your Canadian Outfitters in New Zealand, our friends over there at Leith and Valley, yes. They may not even open it up this year, again, years of not being able to hunt over there. How do
Keith Mark 24:23
they survive? And you know, and you and I find it at least value Valley, originally with the parents and now with Ali and Rachel, I mean, fantastic family on business. How do they survive?
Unknown Speaker 24:38
It honestly, you know, many of them that we talked to and it you know, even you know, Glenn, trophy West, you know, dccu Mr. Ray, I mean, you know, you talk to everybody and you start to realize, you know, well, you know, grind this storm out for for last year, right? But now they're talking about continuing and a A lot of these Outfitters, this is their sole livelihood. And we're, they're taking this away, you can't survive, you have too much debt, you have too many things going on. A lot of these Outfitters may not own the property, but they got the leases, that landowner still wants that lease paid. I mean, or you know, that
Unknown Speaker 25:19
and the government's not going to help them pay that. That's just the honey Outfitters. You're the fishing Outfitters, our friend for outposts just over the border, we can get there in less than 13 hours, and we can't go Kindle. He's got planes, he's taking up other jobs right now to help pay his bills so that if this year doesn't go, he doesn't lose everything. I mean, I get it, there's a virus, but I think it's been way overplayed in the media, and I just, I'm tired of it. Here. I'm
Unknown Speaker 25:45
I'm gonna say that. And I know it's asking a lot. But for everybody who's listening, you know, and you had that dream hunt planned. Maybe, just maybe call that PR you know, call them up, call that outfitter up and say, listen, can I send you a 20 20% deposit for when I can come? Try to help them out? We'll try to keep them going. Because if if we lose that, well think about that. Think about all of the the areas, the little small mom and pop beach shops, all their little sporting goods stores, the little archery shops, a little hotel motels when you're going live on those few months out of the year, and you take all that away. Show show me I you know, listen, I ain't no politician and I don't want to beat now. I don't wouldn't take that position, if you gave it to me. But I do know this. What we do is a lifestyle. Yes. What there is no better conservationist than the true hunters, sportsmen and women out there, there is no one better to mentor than the parents that experienced the outdoors to take their kids out. Because they know if they can get their kids to understand this lifestyle. They don't have to worry about them. You don't have 100% of the crap hits the fan, right? If the crap really hits the fan, I can promise you that people that may not believe in what we do, will be knocking on are gonna be knocking on our doors go listen,
Unknown Speaker 27:19
I got a meeting to meet, how do I grow corn? How do I do this? How do I do that? How do I cut a tree down? How
Unknown Speaker 27:26
do I make a fire because you can't buy any of that crap, you got to you got to understand it, you got to learn it. And you got to respect it, you know,
Keith Mark 27:34
I've said it. That's what we need. I've said it from the very start, the best stimulus check is open up and let people earn a paycheck. And this goes all the way from the big companies who appear to be essential when the bait shops and the hunting outfits are not essential kind of like church, I guess. But I agree 100%. with you guys, we've got to open up. And I think there's a lot of going on, it's anti fill in the blank, whether that's name a name of a politician that I think some of it is aimed at but is certainly a lot of anti hunting things that are going on right now. Because they know they have some of these people on the ropes and if they can bury them Now, again, this is why we have to be vocal we have to be active. I love your idea, Ralph. If you have not booked a trip, look at put your deposit down. Make sure your outfitter knows, hey, look, I am coming. As soon as you open the border, or they open you up, I'm coming. We need to make sure hunting and those that provide these hunting opportunities to us are around for a long time.
Unknown Speaker 28:42
And here's the thing to just think of this. You know, just just if you talk to that outfitter over, you know, over the border north or south or overseas, say listen, what if I send you 100 bucks a month? You don't I mean, it's not breaking my bank, right? But this is an opportunity to actually almost use it as a bank and turn around and start putting a little bit of money and sending that money to them. And now that money is going to help them survive.
Keith Mark 29:06
I mean, that's all it is, is yes, you guys, we just need to stick you're awesome. I mean, you know, that's that's I mean, you know, Ralph and I think people already know this about you, too. You have the largest heart out there. I mean, I can tell you if you know I'm in a bad spot and I get a call. I mean, you're on my list. I mean, because you guys are the real deal. And you'll answer the bell and if I get in trouble, I promise you my first 10 phone calls are going to be 10 hunting buddies. Yeah, you're not kidding. Yeah. You know each other's got their back thing right. Alright, stay tuned. We're gonna come back with Ralph and Vicki since really here a minute.
Right On The Mark 29:46
Do you have the spirit of the wild? If so check out Ted Nugent comm for one stop shopping for concert updates hunting opportunities with 10s sunrise safaris autograph swag. CAD Latest News and anything Ted? Visit Ted nugent.com.
Keith Mark 30:05
All right, um, I would say maybe other than me. You two have killed more Alaska Yukon moose than anyone in the lower 48. So well, thanks to you. Yeah. I mean, honestly, the every year you guys would come out with your moose mania DVD. Man, I'm first in line to buy that because one I love moose hunting and obviously I have a passion for the Yukon. But you guys told that story better than even I can tell it. I mean, what was your attraction to the Yukon? And let's just swap some Yukon stories.
Unknown Speaker 30:46
Buddy, you said there's something about just the wilderness itself. wilderness. It's there's nowhere like it that we've been, you know, it's just, you know, like whether we were hung up on the Mac. You know, that water there was amazing. We've hunted up there on the tail. We punted on a couple of different lakes up there. I mean, it's just such a magical place that if you don't feel your soul rejuvenate itself up there. There's no helping you. I'm sorry. There's not you know, and I mean, moose. Yeah, there's that too. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 31:22
You try to scout for the best act of trail for deer he entered mean, moose don't take trails, they make trail wherever you want to go. And if and when that cow starts bellowing. First off, you realize you let you you hear that noise on for your first time. And you're like, What in the hell is that? mean? And then then you hear? Whoa, and everything inside you? volved Hmm, I got to do that.
Unknown Speaker 31:50
Yes. And then we're first going up there. And we would go and we get you know, you get in on a moose. And then, you know, the guys would be like, No, we can do better.
Keith Mark 32:02
All moose are big, right? You know, people ask me all the time. They say, Keith, how do you best describe moose hunting? And I say well, you're it's interactive hunting with an 1800 pound animal, the largest deer in the deer family largest antlered animal in North America. And you're calling this beast in either as a bowl or a cow. So you're trying to talk to men to come in and fight you or have sex with you. And if it gets down to either of those on an intimate basis that day, it's going to be crazy.
Unknown Speaker 32:37
You have gotten extreme showers. Yes, we have. And I mean, there is no bigger adrenaline rush than that. I mean, that you just endure spent afterwards after a close encounter like that. Yeah, it's you're done. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you got to go and you got to recover it and do all you know, but that's the whole nine yards and that's part of it. But that night after that whole the whole you know, thing goes on, you're done. You just sleep for the next day and a half.
Keith Mark 33:01
Exactly. I agree. All right. Let's talk about something else before I let you guys out of here. You've got your finger on the pulse of everything in the industry. You've got some of the coolest sponsors in the outdoor world. Tell us some cool stuff that's out there right now that people ought to be checking out or that you guys are seeing something cool. What do you got?
Unknown Speaker 33:24
So So this past fall, it wasn't good enough until when it was shot sports show was supposed to be on but browning came out with a new caliber six point Western Have you heard about this? Oh
Keith Mark 33:34
I have not all bodies oh
Unknown Speaker 33:36
we actually date we had one this past fall. Rob and I each shot we each took a meal there and a new mexico builder RJ shadow Colorado mule deer with it. I'm amazing what you need.
Unknown Speaker 33:50
It's it's taken you know the 6.5 series credit union I mean, it's taken that for that flatter trajectory, low recoil but what they did is they took it to a 6.8 you know a 270 frame type of thing like a short mag turned around put 175 grain bullet so no issues shooting fire distance but keeping that kinetic energy for move set and more elk you know, I mean and you know, one of the big things because bow hunting, you know we have it all but to be part of that and you know, doing a lot of field testing for someone that is more experienced in bowl hunting, and you were able to still do the you know, we did autopsies, we did all this stuff. It was really cool. It was just it was cool. You know like you've done it you know we check with our broadheads even on all the moose and you see it cut a rib and you know it exited between the ribs and and you see what vitals well to do the same thing in a newer platform for us. It just it really revitalized.
Keith Mark 34:56
You just pumped up. So what else is out there? What else you got out there? Any other any other products that you guys are using. It's exciting
Unknown Speaker 35:04
that the new white out and rosca shoot anyway, actually, I'm shooting new right to the new woman's both the clips, which is a nice bow, it's really lightweight. And I've got some great speed out of that.
Unknown Speaker 35:12
And you have the new venom, venom, you know, and really, what, it's changed a lot of things. It's you almost have like a built in stabilizer. There's no yoke system anymore. It's incredibly balanced, like, nothing we've ever seen. And you talk about just holding, and archers are gonna understand this. And you especially keep holding, I've never had a bow hold so well. Wow. And then to release with no recoil. I mean, there's just here's the here's what's sad, is with all this stuff that's going on in our world. All of our industry has not been able to really do a product release. Yeah. You know, at the shot short in QA. Yeah. You know, we all got to learn to masks like this.
Keith Mark 35:59
Right. So we don't have I noticed your social distancing there, guys. No, no, it's okay. We're in the same household. That's a rule. I get it. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Here's what's funny, even
Unknown Speaker 36:13
though all this turmoil, you know, last year, we're still up over a million hunters.
Keith Mark 36:18
Yeah, I saw that debt. I just saw that, you know, in a 10 year time period where we've lost 16% of our ranks. In one year, because of the pandemic, we have increased our numbers by a million. And I think in my world, what that tells me is that people are going back to the basics, this very traditional way to feed your family in a safe, pure, organic, family friendly environment. That's cool.
Unknown Speaker 36:48
healthiest, healthiest. And knowing that was especially like, you know, with your explanation earlier with hunter nation, and the numbers, let's just say a million. That means right now we have 500,000 votes. Yeah, 500,000 that helped, right? could have made a big difference, right? It really, I mean, could have could have done more. So so with that million. Let's get that up. We're telling us we're asking everybody, let's get that up. Let's keep Let's continue. Because if you truly live this lifestyle, like we know you do, now's your opportunity. Shut up and join. Let's get together. And let's give this hunter nation one voice that speaks for all of us. Now, you know, if you're a bow hunter, you may think, Well, you know, they're talking gun honey, it doesn't matter. The choice is up to you. Right? But if you complain that so and so or this didn't do better than that, and you didn't vote, guess what? You have no right
Keith Mark 37:46
to play 100% that's why Hunter nation.org is a must. All right. So tell folks, of course we're talking to Ralph and Vicki Sansa rula How do they find you? Because I mean, you have your own podcast the off the grid podcast. Tell us about that. Tell us about when they can see on television and all your social handles so the people that didn't know you before they can find you now.
Unknown Speaker 38:12
All right, well, it's really easy Okay, outdoor channel is our is our archers choice. And the choice airs every Sunday at noon Eastern. It's been there for the multiple rounds ever and other times throughout the week. But our primetime is Sundays at noon Eastern you know, we're right before right after church and right before football. So for NASCAR, so yes, however you want to look at it. Okay, that's always been that way. So,
Keith Mark 38:33
and your social handles.
Unknown Speaker 38:35
Our social handles is everything's at relevant Vicki's at RLPHANDV ic k i, we have Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, working on a couple new platforms getting an out there. Yeah, we need to. And off grid podcast is on all the other podcast places that you can find them, you know, whether you're on Apple, or Spotify or anywhere. Yep, we also have some TV shows some some digital shows that we're working on on waypoint TV, which is a streaming app. It's called back trails. There's some there's some off grid shows that we had done a few years ago on there, but we're reinventing it and doing some other things. Because you know, we're stuck inside this office together. So we might as well do more stuff.
Keith Mark 39:16
Right. And you have something in the works with RJ I think working on some projects.
Unknown Speaker 39:21
Yeah, we're very, very excited about that, as he used to is, you know, he's coming in case kemfer working on a project called moving forward. And it's about two young men that openly admit that listen, we're not University material. We're not college God, you know what I mean? They're not and they aren't trusting you. But yeah, they're probably about 60 60% of the other kids out there, you know, that just college is not their gig. And they're going around and they're learning all types of different traits. And you know, they're learning different professions. That didn't may you know, it doesn't necessarily you need that. Yeah.
Keith Mark 39:57
I mean, oh, trust me. I saw the pilot work. I saw the pilot, or one of them any which way it was absolutely fantastic. And you know, I come from a very strong blue collar union background. My father didn't finish high school, climb poles as a union electrician. I mean, I've every trade in my, my family so I, I loved it. I thought RJ and his partner there did a tremendous job chips off the old block on TV. It was great. It's going to be a success.
Unknown Speaker 40:27
Thanks. Yeah, no, we're excited about it, you know, and we're hoping that it was their idea. And they're the ones that wanted to do it. And we're like, you know what, we'll back you will help you out. We'll get you guys started, you know, and then after they get going, they can go ahead and just, you know, pay us back for it. Yeah.
Keith Mark 40:40
Yeah. There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, what a great time we've had visiting with America's favorite hunting couple Vicky and Ralph c. ansarullah. No, I love you both guys. I really, I've enjoyed our friendship. I love you on TV. You're the real deal on and off the camera in and out of the field. Thanks for joining us. Today, guys. Thanks for having us. Bye. Bye. God bless you. Thank you. I stick around. We'll be right back.
Right On The Mark 41:10
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Colt still making history. pistols, rifles revolvers. Find the right Colt for you today by visiting colt.com.
Keith Mark 41:23
Boy, welcome back to Right On The Mark. And is there a better hunting couple in American and Ralph and Vicki sensor rule? I mean, they are so awesome on and off of the camera in and out of the field that I mean, just listening to them is inspirational. And I'll tell you what it makes me think about is the importance for all of us hunters to pass this lifestyle on. And I I think right off when I went when I hear that, of course I want to get my kids out into the woods, Zachary and Jacob and I want to get them out. Well, it doesn't just have to be your children. Think about this bigger folks. I mean, talk about hunting, share your pictures, share your stories with everyone, whether that's a church, the bar or the bowling alley, you never know who's out there that has thought about hunting, maybe doesn't have any place to hunt, doesn't know anybody that would be willing to take them out. And you know, getting started hunting, especially if it's later in life might be a little bit intimidating. So take it on ourselves. To pass this on. Let's increase our numbers, not by a million this year. Let's do it by 2 million, 3 million. Let's get our hunting ranks back up to the numbers that they should be. Because let's face it, folks, what we do a field is awesome. It's traditional. It's basically part of our fabric, our DNA as Americans. So here's my thought for today. Let's take this personally as hunters, let's take personal responsibility for increasing our ranks. Young and old men and women, all walks of life. Let's talk about hunting. Let's share hunting. Let's invite people to hunt with us because what we do a field. I mean, it is special. It's pure, it's organic. And quite frankly, it is spirit lifting. So I'm asking each of you to reach out to those people in your lives right now that aren't hunting, to invite them to join you in this great American tradition of hunting. And let's increase all of our hunting friends by one each. Come back again and we'll share some more Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 43:49
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter nation studios and is the property of Boehner productions, produced in conjunction with BLT production Copyright 2021
Episode 7 & 8 featuring Jana Waller
Jana Waller is an artist, television host and a conservationist She was born into a hunting family and was taken under her father’s wing at a young age. Her Skull Bound franchise has moved from cable broadcast to fully digital and continues to expand and reach new audiences. Despite an incredibly busy schedule of filming hunts, producing and supervising show production and making her signature beaded skulls, Jana finds time to reach out to young, aspiring hunters, especially girls, to help them start hunting.
Episode 7 - In this first of two episodes, Jana joins ROTM host, Keith Mark and explains why she has taken her long running and uber successful Skull Bound Chronicles show from TV to online digital and why it works for her audience.
She and Keith discuss the need to get women and girls of all ages into hunting and why that can be so more important to the future. She fears that young people today aren’t being taught the discipline and dedication that hunting and outdoor lifestyles teach. She lets us know that she takes time to give back with her time and talents to help kids learn and excel at outdoor activities.
They also discuss the strange phenomenon of hunters criticizing other hunters. She shares that she has been targeted by on-line, “keyboard warriors” and how she reacted. She states that hunters really need to stop the infighting and unite to protect their rights, which she feels are under attack by anti-hunting organizations. She points to HunterNation.org as a great organization to help combat those efforts and to increase the ranks of hunters.
Episode 8 - Jana Waller is back for part 2 of this special 2-part ROTM and in this episode she talks more hunting, takes questions from fans and explains how she and our host, Keith Mark, have a mutual friend that is known as “The Voice Of God”.
Jana is back again and discusses her love of big game hunting and current passion for using a pistol, or hand canon, to take on bear and other challenging prey.
She talks about balancing a very busy schedule that involves producing, filming and editing her Skull Bound Chronicles family of digital offers- not to mention the actual hunting and travel involved.
She and Keith have a mutual friend, John Bair. John was the narrator for Keith’s TV show, “Shawn Michaels MacMillan River Adventures” for one season. They discuss how he got the title of “Voice Of God”.
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation - HunterNation.org
Guest Links:
Skull Bound Chronicles - https://skullboundchronicles.com/
Jana’s Beaded/Painted Skulls - https://skullboundchronicles.com/painted-skull-designs
Keith Mark 0:01
Our guest today is one of the most entertaining, talented, dynamic and dare I say in this day and age prettiest women in the world of hunting. She's a trailblazer not only in how she hunts but how she delivers the stories for fans. And this lady, my good friend Jana Waller well she gives back as much as anyone you'll meet. Stay tuned for an interesting talk with Jana Waller right here on Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 0:28
Right On The Mark. Episode Seven part one of two featuring Jana Waller, recorded May of 2021 starts right now.
He has hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things God, Family, Country and Hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 1:13
Welcome to another Right On The Mark podcast. I'm your host, Keith mark and my sidekick here is Josh Ishmael. Josh, welcome back.
Josh Ishmael 1:20
Thank you, sir.
Keith Mark 1:21
You know, pretty excited about today. We've got Jana Waller. And you know, I mean, you know, I was on outdoor television for a long time you do outdoor TV, but, you know, I'm a fan of outdoor programming and Jana is an entertaining sun of a gun
Josh Ishmael 1:35
Yeah, and she's made the move from sportsman's channel to strictly digital, but what I want to know is how long does it take her to bead one of those skulls exactly like that has? I mean, my hands I have arthritis.
Keith Mark 1:47
You're a kid. You medium arthritis. You know, arthritis can spell arthritis. But you know, one of the things that I love about watching or one The show is incredible. The hunter great she tells great stories she does so much with you know, kids and veterans and you know, she's the epitome of a true sports persons Sports's woman. But then the way she keeps the memories, some some of them obviously, she's got a lot of good taxidermy, but she does true artwork,
Josh Ishmael 2:12
well, that and she donates them, she beads them, donates them and then takes that money and gives it to conservation groups or veteran groups or whatever to try to help. You know, she's giving back constantly,
Keith Mark 2:22
You know, when my wife took my daughter, through hunter education, I was actually up in Michigan hunt with Ted. And my wife called me after the first day of hunter education. And, and was talking to Ted and I and said the guy that was teaching hunter Ed believe this or not, it's been probably 20 years ago. And he said, Make sure when you go out in public don't wear camo. Because we don't want people to know we're hunters. And Ted goes, What an idiot. You know, he said when you go in there tomorrow, call me. And then so she did. My wife gave the phone to the instructor and Ted goes for
Josh Ishmael 2:58
Poor guy.
Keith Mark 2:58
Well, I felt bad for the guy actually. My wife, my daughter failed hunter Ed because of this. No, but you know, the the guy says, Hey, take a look across from me right now. Do you see a blonde lady and a blonde little blonde girl wearing a ponytail? Very cute. They would be great representatives of hunting. They should wear camo to church. And I think the same thing with our guest today. Jana Waller. I mean she's she's just a great example of everything that's right about hunting. So I want you all to stay tuned. When we come back. We're going to swap stories with the legendary Jana Waller. Stay tuned.
Right On The Mark 3:36
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation. Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God, Family, Country, Conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org today.
Keith Mark 3:55
Welcome to Right On The Mark podcast. As promised, we have just a great outdoor representative, my good friend Jana Waller. Jana, welcome to the program.
Jana Waller 4:05
Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to chat with you today.
Keith Mark 4:09
You know, you have done so much on television. And now you've transformed as Josh said in the open to strictly digital with your Skull Bound Chronicles. tell the folks that may not be familiar with you and if you're not Shame on you, but tell them about how that all started and what you do.
Jana Waller 4:27
Well, I just I was on the sportsman's channel for nine years and slowly started to kind of toy in the last few years of going digital and a combination of digital and network. And two years ago, actually, last year, yeah, last year was my last year on the network and then I switched strictly to digital just because for the for me as a business. It's just a lot simpler to go digital. I know a lot of my sponsors were looking for the digital side of the Of The world links, they could share that if they wanted to share the show, or maybe go back and rewind it and watch it over again. Or, you know, it's funny when people may not have tuned in to your show in the beginning, but they want to go back and watch all the other episodes. with digital. It's just super easy. People want their adventure TV, when they want it, how they want it, if they want to watch it on their phone, if they want to watch it on TV, when maybe their spouse is in the other room watching something else they want to when they want it, maybe it's when they're on a break at work. And Digital's just, for me a really good fit in that manner. And it's been fun carbon TV is free. You can it's like YouTube, but it's not discretionary. like YouTube, there's no little warning labels because I'm clearly I'm a huge predator hunter and yeah, and YouTube, they don't like that they often give you a warning. You know, they're they're often anti gun, not carbon TV, they're owned by hunters. They're proud to stand tall behind hunters. And it's never gonna be a paid platform. It's always free. You can watch it on the big screen if you have a Roku or a FireStick or on the app or on simply on your laptop on CarbonTV.com.
Keith Mark 6:08
Awesome. Have you been hunting all your life, Jana is that later in life acquisition?
Jana Waller 6:13
No, I have my I was really fortunate enough. My I was the second daughter. My dad really wanted a boy. And so the joke is always in the family that he turned me into one. But it was the greatest gift he ever
Keith Mark 6:27
very pretty boy, I must.
Jana Waller 6:29
Thank you. He took me along, you know, let me sit next to him in the duck blinds took me to South Dakota pheasant hunting, I grew up in the beautiful state of Wisconsin. And we just you know, really encouraged that love of the outdoors from when I was four or five, six years old. And I said speaking of hunter safety, as I heard you mentioned earlier, I was 12 years old 1983 you can do the math. And but I was the only a girl in hunter safety. And now it's so great. I often do pop in visits to classes and so great. Sometimes it's half and half half girls have boys and that's so great to see.
Keith Mark 7:07
You know, in that awesome I did a television show with Donald Trump Jr. And that's one of the things that Donald Trump Jr. said is, you know, think about this, if you were going to start a business, and right off the off the bat, you said I'm going to exclude half of the population. And that's almost the way it was, you know, when when I was a kid that, you know, men went the hunting camp and they smoked cigars and drank and it wasn't a place where you ever bring your wife, for sure not your daughter and back in those days, your your son had to be, you know of age before he could ever go to a hunting camp. You know, thank goodness, my father wasn't like that he brought me in from a very young age. But I am so pleased that you know that we've kind of changed that mentality. We need even do a better job with that. Because if we can include mama bear and baby bear and daddy bear is all part of the deal, man. It's just it becomes a family activity, which is what it is and what it should be.
Jana Waller 8:06
Amen. Well, studies show that if the mom of the household hunts that kids are going to hunt where the dad does, it's 50 some percent i forgot what the statistic is. But yeah, we need to get the moms out there, the daughters out there and just like you said, everybody together, there's nowadays in the culture that we live in, I just feel hunting provides so many character building skills that for the non-hunter, they may not understand I mean, from patience and hard work. You know, it's you got to be skilled not only in your weaponry, but on the hunt as well. And there's a lot of it's a plethora of emotions to deal with. Often you got busted stocks or you know that Turkey just saw you and ran or you know, so many things can go wrong. It's just It teaches perseverance. But when you get to gather around the dinner table to a deer or turkey or elk or something that you all you got together better than that. And that confidence, especially in young girls, I took a little girl out, was it last week or the week before last week? I can't keep my days straight. Um, so she's 11 years old. Her name was Claire, and just the cutest and she's very teeny 11 real teeny little girl and we went turkey hunting. And we spent a few hours just going through the processes of turkey hunting what's what the decoys look like the difference between the species of turkeys but the calls they make. If hours we went through on the laptop and then we went out and we only saw one hen that night. But we went out the next morning and she had to get up early and we were in the blind by 5:30am and we were in the blind probably a good two three hours before any action, but she kept it together and made the most beautiful shot on a Jake and she was so excited that I was more excited than she was like her mom said the confidence that she got from that that morning. It is It's priceless. And I wish every single kid in America could experience that.
Keith Mark 10:05
Yeah, boy girl. I mean, it's all so awesome. You know? And, you know, they're they used to say, well, women can't shoot. Well, quite contrary, you know, I mean, I and Josh, you mean, you're a perfect testament, I mean, you know, my daughter shoots as good as my boys, my wife shoots better. Well, let's not get into the better part. You know, and in fact, I always told my wife that my you know, I mean, I watched her she'd have three kids in her arms, cooking dinner and talking on the phone. You know, I mean, it's like women have nine arms and could do multitask like men can't. And I said, Boy, I mean, that's why you guys have such an advantage out in the woods. Because you can do all I mean, you know, I'm saying I say that tongue in cheek, but
Jana Waller 10:47
I have a lot of friends who actually are range coaches, and all of them have said to me, that women are great to have on the range there. They're quick learners, they kind of put all ego aside they don't you know, they don't feel the need to maybe get some men do And again, we're generalizing. But no, all of my friends who are range coaches have said the same thing that women are fantastic on the range. We're great shot. We're good students, good listeners very safe. And in today's day and age, I don't care if you whether you're a hunter or just a shooter, or you want to have firearms to protect yourself, I think it every single man, woman and child needs to be familiar with guns.
Keith Mark 11:30
Yeah, no, I fully agree with you. And one of the things that I love best about how you portray hunting, is that you use multiple disciplines, handguns, rifles, bow, I mean, you know, you're you're, you're an across the board hunter talk. Talk a little bit about that.
Jana Waller 11:46
Yeah, I it's funny because in high school, though, really only the hunting I did was with my dad, pheasant hunting bird hunting, I started to sit in the trees with a high school boyfriend who was into archery. But my dad really didn't get into it until I was in high school. And I was into sports and so many other things, which is what part of the problem in today's day and age, you know, all these kids are involved in so many other things. It's so structured, they've got to make time for hunting. But um, I picked up a bow my freshman year in college, I was 19. And I've been bow hunting ever since and been been really blessed and fortunate to travel the world with my bow. But when I moved out west to Montana about 11 years ago, that's when I got into long range rifles shooting. And that's been incredible as well and it's sometimes misunderstood. And long range is a very skilled discipline type of hunting, you've got the wind to play with the altitude to play with, you know, there's so many factors that play and then I started handgun hunting about four or five years ago, got my I got my first handgun A while back, but actually hunting with them is so much different. It's so much different than going to the range and plinking at steel. This is a live animal that you want to make one clean, perfect killshot your adrenalin is of course surging when the animal or bird comes in. I just shot a turkey in Texas twice a bird but um, you know, it's it's just been so much fun to be able to jump around with all the different disciplines from bow hunting to long range rifle hunting shotgun, and now pistol.
Keith Mark 13:20
And you had a great week, last week with the pistol and you've got some great stories and so I want you to share some of those stories with our listeners. So I encourage everyone to stick around after the break. We're going to come back with more stories from Jana Waller.
Right On The Mark 13:35
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by King's Camo offering the right clothing gear and accessories for all your outdoor needs. shop today at KingsCamo.com King's Camo was an original and proud supporter of Hunter Nation.
Keith Mark 13:51
Welcome back to Right On The Mark. We're with Jana Waller. And you know Jana when we left we were talking about you getting into hand gunning and watch a follow you on social media and you've had pretty good last couple of weeks with that handgun it look like
Unknown Speaker 14:04
I have I was lucky enough to go down to Texas with my buddy deadly buck Medley who if anyone used to watch his show on animal planet, the Texas Tarzan buck is crazy. But he is so in a good way. He is so much fun. He's the kind of guy like talking about different kinds of weapons. He's like grab your spear grab your bowl, grab your gun, let's go. Yeah, he doesn't care what he does at all as well. But I took just my hand guns down there it was primarily going to be a trip to use the HMS bows we're going bowfishing and we were going to target alligator gar and we have we had some good luck with that as well but then I had a couple of evenings I was able to get out with the pistols. I took down my Desert Eagle 429 as well as the new Magnum research they have a 1911 and the 10 mil but I ended up getting a Javelina, my first actually have one real big Javelina with my pistol as well. Beautiful Rio Turkey. So that was
Keith Mark 15:03
Yeah, I saw it on social media. And by the way, if somebody wants to follow you on social media and see your programs, this, this is a good time to share that information.
Jana Waller 15:14
Oh, well, that's great. Thank you. Um, it's SkullBoundTV on Facebook, and then that my Instagram account is skull bone crap. No, I'm sorry, @SkullBoundTV on on Instagram, SkullBoundChronicles. On Facebook, it's a little bit confusing. If you just type in Skull Bound, you'll find me. My show on sportsmans was Skull Bound and Chronicles is the digital. It's just this. It's the same show. But we named it a little bit different when we went digital. But Yep, just type in Skull Bound. And you'll find me and I run all my own social media. It's just me. So I often get messages, asking people to forward that message. But it's just me. Yeah, I'm happy to chat with people to answer any questions, especially when it comes to gear or weapons or different types of hunts. I hunt a lot of public land that in and of itself can be challenging. And I'm happy to answer any questions people might have. But Yep, you can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter under Skull Bound or on the
Keith Mark 16:10
on the topic of questions. Oh, Josh has been chomping at the bit to ask questions. And
Josh Ishmael 16:14
one thing before we get to that Jena, you had told me before the amount of hate that gets shot your way as a female Hunter. And I've hosted many, many social media accounts, and I never got the stuff that you told me you get in your inbox from other hunters even.
Jana Waller 16:31
Yeah, it's sad. It's just part of the game, I think, you know, there's a lot of keyboard warriors out there who don't know how to have an educated discussion. You know, they all they've got really in their back pocket is name calling death threats even at time. Back in the day, I remember at the beginning of Skull Bound, I had this animal rights activist just ruthlessly attacking me, but which I could handle but then he went on to the next level of emailing my partners and my sponsors, and just just really being a cyber bully. And so I got the FBI involved, and we shut them down with a cease and desist letter. And, you know, it's, it's sad, but what's even more sad is when it's hunters against hunters, we shouldn't be able to be we should be able to have dialogue and open discussions about topics. Without name calling, or even, you know, Lately, I've been seeing the people skirting around the name calling and still being really rude. Like, I've lost all respect for you that you know, that kind of that kind of dialogue, which, that's okay. I'm not here to please everybody. You know, I am here to stand tall for hunting all hunters, all types of hunting. And I really, I really feel like if if people understood the forces that be that of the anti hunters who are trying to take away all of our rights, I think we'd band a little bit stronger together.
Keith Mark 18:00
I agree with you. I've said for years, Jana, that the two things. If If hunting is ever outlawed, banned and disappears forever. It's going to be because of infighting and just complete apathy.
Jana Waller 18:14
Yep, I agree with that. I really do. I think that we don't even have to, we can agree to disagree on some things. But we all need to understand a little bit better. The rights that are slowly being chipped away. You know, we need to get involved with groups like Hunter Nation, Sportsmen's Alliance, all the conservation groups that are battling in the courtroom, or they're at least helping support those courtroom type organizations. And we just need to band together and on social media to you know, stand tall for what we love. Talk about a lot of non hunters just might see the typical gripping grin photos, which are great, hey, I support all of them. That smile is because there's typically a lot of hard work that went on before that, that successful notch tag. But I think we all need to also express on our social media, what it means to be out in God's country and just to experience the hunt and how fun it is to climb the mountains and feel the fresh air at how good it is for the soul. How wonderful it is to you know, hunters, we're the only ones who literally like take our meat to our neighbor's houses or like I actually take tons of whether I get air elk or bear I take it to my hairdresser. You know, multi multiple friends I take meat We're the only ones who do that, you know, you don't go to Costco and like divvy up the ribs and take them over to your neighbors. You know, that's that's our trophy that meat is I you know, and I live alone and so I have a lot of it, but it's, it's really fun to give it away. But let's talk about that more. Let's talk about the sense of community that hunting brings, as well as all those life lessons that we talked about earlier that are being I don't know about you, but I mean it's it's we're Some living in a culture that we live in today, where it doesn't seem like the kids anyway are understanding hard work and understanding, you know, doing stuff they don't really want to do like getting up earlier bundling up in the cold and, you know, just it hunting provides so many life skills that I think are so critical. It's kind of like I was at I was with our mutual friend John Bair the other day, and he was 4H auction. And all these kids were showing their, their cows and their pigs, and it was so great. And I just step back for a second. And I'm like, this is Americana. This is the stuff that it you know, and all those kids are all the kids that hunt to but it's it's the kind of thing that I feel like our every kid should experience, you know, should should have to understand all the hard work of raising cat raising cattle or pigs or growing their own food or hunting or in, you know, you know, being able to set a goal and achieve it. And, you know, I just think it's missing today.
Keith Mark 21:06
You know, when you when you look at what makes you a successful Hunter, it's patience. It's practice. It's perseverance. It's a discipline. You know, sometimes it's, it's overcoming, you know, whatever, fill in the blank Mother Nature, your own mistakes,
Josh Ishmael 21:23
and success doesn't always mean you killed something. Because I mean, I know where I take my kids success means we saw Cardinals, Doves, Blue Jays, a Rabbit. I mean, it's all a successful hunt for them.
Keith Mark 21:33
Right. And you know, and I just don't understand, you know, I see some of these keyboard warriors. And I like you, Jana. Um, you know, I've been a big proponent of the delisting of the wolf, managing wolves, not that I want to extinct wolves, I want to manage them. So we have healthy herds of everything. And the minute you do that, I get hate death threats from you know, mostly anti hunters, and some people that say they are hunters, which I don't believe anyway, you know, all those things that we just talked about that makes a hunt successful. These folks that throw stones at us have absolutely no idea. These are the same people that think meat comes in, you know, lit cases and cellophane, they don't have any idea what it's like to grow your own crops with a little you know, dirt under your nails or, you know, the whole nine yards. And, Josh,
Josh Ishmael 22:22
I know you had a question or two we have sorry, kind of took us down a rabbit hole there. So we talked about females being kind of the fastest growing, I guess, industry in our industry. What would you kind of say to the females out there that their husbands or boyfriends or dads asked him to go in there kind of hesitant?
Jana Waller 22:43
Well, I mean, if they want to get out there and they want to experience hunting, you don't need the man. I mean, honestly, it's obviously a lot when you have a mentor. It's a lot easier and it's a lot nicer. But if you are a woman, whatever age and you want to get into hunting, and your spouse or your boyfriend or whomever does not want to take you there are a lot of great resources out there. First of all, I would look right straight at the conservation groups, the National Wild Turkey Federation, the Mule Deer Foundation, recommend no SCI they they're all of them have great websites. First of all, tons of information on the websites. In fact, when I was mentoring Claire the other day we went right on to the NWTF website went through the different types of calls turkey make turkeys make the different types of turkeys. There's a lot to learn, of course, and it can be a bit intimidating. But there's people out there who are more than willing to help mentor help teach if you can't find a local conservation group. I would recommend putting a message out there on Facebook or Instagram like hey, I really want to learn about hunting where do I start and you'll get some great information there's a lot of people willing to give back and to help birth a new hunter.
Josh Ishmael 24:05
Love it perfect. Next question. What's your favorite everyday go to caliber in a rifle or I guess pistol in your case it could be to
Jana Waller 24:14
my rifles definitely my 28 the last two years last year and this year I'm pretty much just hunting with my 28 nosler It's a such a great round for all big game. It's all you know, is it a little overkill for an antelope? Yeah, but we I'd rather have overkill than underkill and it's just I've just got the perfect setup with it. And so I'm using it for everything this spring and fall bear elk, everything from antelope and deer up to big game. The 28 nosler is definitely my go to. I've got a beautiful vortex Viper scope decked out on that thing. I've got a suppressor it's just, it's just a great great go to gun for everything. As far as pistols go, I've only ever hunted with my Desert Eagle 429 Again, that's a that's a hand cannon. But I'm also hunting mountain lions and bears. I run my own baits in Idaho with my buddy Heath Helgart. So actually tomorrow we're gonna head over there and start setting them up. You know bear there big tough animals. You want a bit of a hand cannon for that. I I've taken mountain lion with a handgun, bear, hog hunted Javelina and Turkey. Like I said, it's a bit overkill. It's funny. A lot of people ask me like, what happened to the turkey like, Whoa, that's that's quite a heavy round. I don't even think that bullet expanded. I mean, it was 23 yards. and it was no more of entry exit than a broadhead when I've shot turkeys with broadheads. So, but I do, I do have that new 10 mil 1911 in the 10 mil that I'd like to hunt with as well. I just haven't, it doesn't have a scope on it doesn't have a sight on it. It's iron sights, but I feel like I need to get a little bit more comfortable with it before I take it out and actually hunt with it.
Josh Ishmael 25:58
Yeah, no question that we're gonna take a breal friend Ted Nugent loves on with that, too. Yeah, he loves his tan. Okay, last question. But most important question, how many hours does it take you to do one of your beaded skulls?
Jana Waller 26:11
That's a great question. I get that a lot. It totally depends on the skull. If it's a deer skull, or you know, a bear skull, it's only like this big. If it's a buffalo, that's four times the surface area of one of the smaller animals. So the I can do a deer or a bear in two days. And you know, it's a couple hours. It's so meticulous, it's a couple hours here in a couple hours there but I can get them done in a couple days. But a buffalo takes me a week or two for sure. I haven't had a whole lot of skull time and I've been just traveling so much, but I need to get back into it.
Keith Mark 26:43
Well, that's it for this episode. But next week, Jana is coming back and we're going to talk more hunting with her and she's going to tell us some stories of hunting with real life heroes like our guests last week. Mark OZ Geist, of course, Jana is good friends with OZ like we are and we're going to tell some stories. Back in the day when I was still hosting Shawn Michaels MacMillan River Adventures on the outdoor channel. We're gonna talk about a guide Jana and I both know really well we'll just call him the voice of God to hear that and more come back next time here on Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 27:17
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of bow and arrow productions produced in conjunction with BLT productions Copyright 2021
Keith Mark 0:00
Welcome to Right On The Mark podcast and my guest again this week is my good friend Jana Waller. And I always love talking hunting with Jana. She's a true inspiration and she's a role model to all young girls and women out there in the hunting world. And some agenda stories today are going to be about hunting with true life American heroes including our mutual friend markaz guys, so stay tuned for some great stories from none other than Jana Waller here on Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 0:28
Right On The Mark episode eight, part two of two, featuring Jenna Waller recorded may of 2021 starts right now. He has hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things God family country and hunting, he's Keith mark and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 1:12
Welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast here with my sidekick Josh Ishmael cam and we have the legendary Jana Waller Jana so we have a mutual friend we have a couple mutual friends actually, I want to talk about Marcus guys first of 13 our being Ghazi fame, you have a great, great story of getting him his first deal. Tell us that?
Unknown Speaker 1:36
Well, I've always in the last 10 years I I've grown very passionate about taking veterans hunting and I had met as the through mutual friends in the industry. I can't exactly remember who it was, but stayed in touch with them. And he and his wife, crystal and he, I asked him I have an outfit rNk hunting in Wyoming and Utah that have been so wonderful and have let me bring a lot of veterans hunting from triple amputee veterans on their first elocon to you know, men and women who have just even post traumatic stress. But I lined up that hunt at rNk we actually hunted in Utah. And we it was it was it really couldn't have been scripted any better. Because that first day we saw a few elk from some cows and I think a couple of spikes. Second day same. We weren't really into the numbers. We are doing tons of hiking around it's just beautiful terrain. They're just rolling big, beautiful mountains. And but the third day Whoa, did we get into them. And I shot a beat made a perfect shot and a beautiful bowl. And it was in these rolling pockets and you just didn't know how many elk were behind the other one he shot a herd of at least 300 elk took off just and it was even though it was rifle season. They were still in the late right and so the cows were chirping, there was bugles everywhere. They just all ran off through the wood timber and got to be with us when he walked up on his bowl and it was just super special. He actually took a moment to carve into a tree into the trees. I don't know I should I should know my trees, but I don't but like into the white birch trees. He carved a really neat sort of memorial for the men that we lost in Benghazi. It was really really special.
Keith Mark 3:33
Wow. Very, very, very cool. Yeah. oz is just, uh, you know, he's a great guy had him on the podcast. And, you know, I mean, as you know, these veterans, they oftentimes and mark and john wayne walding. They all talk about that the skills that they ultimately became known for, in their heroics in the military. They actually learned in the elk and deer and in pheasant fields with their dads and grandpas. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 4:00
yeah, it's true. It's there's so much crossover between hunting and the veteran community. And I've been really, really blessed to share some of actually my favorite moments of my life have been in the field with some of these veterans even over notching my own incredible tags. It's been with them, just to watch them especially the double amputees. Watch them climb the mountains and one of my favorite concert I ever did was with a double amputee Navy SEAL named Beau written back and he was just a warrior. He his prosthetics didn't really work well on the uneven terrain. So he ended up taking them off spinning on these like metal plates on the bottom of his stumps and he crawled the mountains for eight days was incredible. And, and you could tell he was getting really sorry and used his upper body that much in a long time but ended up just putting again a great shot like 300 feet. yard shot on this bowl that just dropped in his tracks and to be with him when and his dad, it was their first hunt together. Because when Beau was younger, he really didn't hunt much. He was really into hockey. But to be with them both to get up on that bowl and watch him just put his hands around that Bull's antlers, and it was so special that actually spurred me to do all my amputee hunts that I do. And at least once a year, I've been really fortunate enough to get a really special veteran out into the elk mountains, and but it's literally my favorite moments in my life.
Keith Mark 5:33
You know, and coming from somebody who's done outdoor TV for over 10 years, when I watch you and you're in your program. It's almost like I'm there. I'm eavesdropping. I mean, you're such a tremendous storyteller in the way you guys put your your programs out that. I mean, the stories that you're telling now is exactly the way the viewers feel when when they're watching, I just congratulate you on that. That's that's a unique talent.
Unknown Speaker 6:02
Well, my dad always says I wear my heart on my sleeve. Good and bad, like what you see is what you get. And so I just tried to keep it authentic and keep it real. And it is really emotional. And I'm really glad to hear that that it comes off. Because they're just special moments, not just for the veterans, but for myself. But I can't tell you how many messages I've gotten over the years from people who've watched that and truly been inspired. People with disabilities and without, you know, sometimes it's it's human nature to just get caught up in our own trials and tribulations and you know, life can be tough. Sometimes I don't care if you're having financial difficulties, physical ailments, whatever it can be. And when you watch somebody just overcome, whatever it may be, and to find success and to pour their hearts out and to watch that emotion, it's inspiring, and just makes me keep wanting to do it. In fact, I'm really excited to announce that I'm gonna go back into the archives. I've been thinking a lot about this, this last year or two, about how all these moments are so special to me, but they're kind of scattered out. You can't, they're not all on carbon TV. A lot of people my old episodes from skull bound are on my outdoor TV, Mo TV calm, but that's a subscription based and some people don't have that. And so there's not one place that have my favorite hunts of veteran hunts all together. And so in 2022, I'm putting together my top 12 veteran hunts that I've done, and I'm so excited to be able to have them all in one season for people to watch.
Keith Mark 7:39
Boy, I can't wait to I can't wait to see that. Before, before we let you go. I want you to tell one other story for us. I know you're a Wisconsin girl that's moved to Montana. But this last season, you actually went back home for a deer hunt at the old home place and that story is just it's it's emotional. Tell us that one.
Unknown Speaker 7:59
Thank you. Well, it wasn't 2020 because of COVID it was 2019 I had gone My dad was selling his cabin. And that cabin is was so near and dear to my heart. It's where my dad and I share our hunting together and for the last 20 years and he had had it on the market for years but just never found the right buyer and but he found the buyer and he told me about was just the beginning of the fall season. He said I think we've got a buyer but I've worked it out we'll have one more fall season together up there if you can come home for the rifle hunt. And you know my dad never he never even got up there any archery season. He just wasn't he's getting a little up there. And yours. Sorry, did. But he just he's almost at he just isn't getting up there as much as he was no one had been up there during archery season. I hadn't hunted it since the previous year. But the reason this time is so special is because it was my last time at the cabin. But it's old school hunting. It's just there's no trail cameras up. There's no food plots up. It's just all of us are my family and some family friends scattering about in the woods and kind of crossing your fingers if you will, you know and there's that you can obviously you can pick where they might be traveling to or from bedding areas and such but it's old school hunting. In fact, on the drive up there is so funny My dad was telling the story about his father's hunting camp and a different location. But he said, you know, it's everybody. They didn't put a whole lot of effort. our grandfathers didn't put a whole lot of effort like we do these days. It was about that camaraderie about getting together and smoking the stovies and having a beer and my dad used to my dad joked and he said his dad used to say nothing ruins a good old Wisconsin deer camp like someone getting a deer down. But this particular Yeah, so I only had two days to hunt. I decided to go back to a big ratty old box blind that was First stand I ever hunted in, you know with my dad 20 years ago there and like it's good thing I went Friday to go check it out. I walked up the rickety old stairs and tried to get into the box blind and it The door was warped shut, I had to literally football, drill myself into the blind, all the windows are broke out, but to you know, the roofs caving in, and it's just it needs to be bulldozed. But I'm like, I'm gonna sit here this weekend and just for nostalgia purposes. And long story short opening morning, it was cold and frosty. You know, there was frost on though a couple of windows that remained frost all over my vortex my nosler and I was just sitting there being so appreciative of the fact that I have this, the hunting heritage I have with my dad, the fact I've had this beautiful place to come hunt all these years, how sad it would be that we wouldn't be able to, you know, be up there anymore. But just gratitude I was just feeling so much gratitude for two decades of being up there. And, you know, we've shot a couple decent vibe I that was I shot three or four nice 130 style whitetail with my bowl over the years, but that's a big deer for up there, you know? And like I said, there's no food plots, trail cameras, it was kind of like, oh, there's a deer, you know. And anyway, long story short, I saw this book through the woods and he was trailing a doe. And he was about 150 yards away. I threw in my glass up and I just remember thinking Ooh, shooter, like, that's exciting. I hope someone sees him like and five and I just kind of go back you know, your heart rate surges and go back to kind of relaxing wasn't Five minutes later, I hear
Unknown Speaker 11:42
of the leaves underneath me and I look out the window. And there he is. And he I mean, I couldn't even like get my gun low enough. He literally walked right under my tree stand, walked around. I had to get up off my crickety old church chair, get into the back window. This buck walked out. He's about 30 I could have shot him with my bow 30 yards. I grunt at him to stop him. He looks back up at me. I shoot. He runs behind a pine and I literally was like did that that just happened like I've never seen a deer like that up there on my dad's place much less get an opportunity at them. And all of this is in my Instagram story highlights if anyone wants to go back in and watch it's kind of funny because I I'm by myself there's no cameras. I'm just enjoying the weekend. I cell phone, a lot of it but not the kill. But I walk up on that deer and it's a the most beautiful 170 inch class whitetail. It is just all the and it only has a 12 inch spread. So mind you. He's like this, but he's got so much going on. Yeah, yeah, he's technically 169 and two eights, I believe. But anyway, it was it was monster. Yeah, it was just a beautiful deer is so special to share that with my dad and everybody what a great way to say goodbye to that place. He's on my wall right now I'm looking at him. And it just meant so much to me. And sometimes even though my career is filming hunts, and you know, sharing it with people, sometimes just being out there all alone is just magical.
Keith Mark 13:13
And those people that don't think God pays attention, he pays attention.
Unknown Speaker 13:18
I get an amen, I'm probably going to cry saying this story. It's so beautiful. So Mind you, that was a really tough time in my life. I had, I just ended a 10 year relationship. It was very difficult for me at the time, and I didn't know what I was going to do with my life. And I just went back to have the weekend with my dad and I was at SHOT Show, what, two months later having lunch with my friend Brandon Lilly. And I was he's just the soulful, spiritual kind of guy. And I was telling him He's like, tell me about that block. And I was telling him the story. And I said, when I was down there on the ground by myself just spinning this rack and tears were strong streaming, and I was feeling so grateful. I said it was like, it was like the woods were glowing. And without skipping a beat. Brandon said, Jana, did you ever think that you were the one making those woods glow? And it just was like, it was like a really special moment. And that's right, you know, we forget about that. You know, that's what the woods do. They give you that? It's Yeah, it's adrenaline and it's exciting. And we're out there to notch tanks. But if nothing in my life has ever given me peace, like hunting, like that downtime in hunting, and that reflection time and I think hunting has taught me more about myself than anything else in my life.
Keith Mark 14:39
Well, what a great story. One of the things I want to touch on with you before we leave. We have another mutual friend. You've now stumbled into another relationship I hear you're now dating God. And you know the people that watch McMillan river adventures will fully understand This. So in though in the last few years, the way Shawn and I were telling the story is the there was a narrator on McMillan river and we were basically telling life stories Sean's mine, just in general. And the narrator is none other than john bear. But we had we didn't title john john was untitled, right? So it was just, there was a narrator. We didn't say who it was. But the way the narrator spoke on the show, it was like God talk. Yeah. You know, and, and, you know, I made this sunset, that kind of thing, you know. And so now you're obviously spending quite a lot of time with john, congratulations on that, Bob.
Unknown Speaker 15:42
Thank you very much. Yeah, he's just a great guy. The only downside about him is that he lives in Utah. I live in Montana, and
Keith Mark 15:50
I need them that may not be a downside, Jana, there may be some positives there.
Unknown Speaker 15:55
They couldn't be the key to our relationship. I'm not sure. But I do miss them dearly. When I'm up here in Montana. I but I'm, I'm lucky enough that with my schedule, I can make trips down there quite a bit. In fact, I was blessed to draw a Wasatch bear tag this year. So I have four bear tags this spring. Yeah. And so yeah, next week, I'll be driving down there and spending a week with him and his friend TJ pace and going after Wasatch bear. So you know,
Keith Mark 16:25
john tells a funny story. When he started doing McMillan river, he was on a job site. And a buddy said, Do you watch McMillan river adventures? and john goes, Yeah, Yeah, I do. And he goes, you know that. The guy that narrates that sounds a lot like you. It of course, Sean and I had sworn to secrecy. He was like, kind of does, you know, what do you say, you know, but, you know, he's quite a prolific hunter in his own right. And, and for those that don't know, john is just a just an ardent conservationist. I mean, he does so much. I mean, his involvement, he takes his hands on conservation seriously from predator management, to the time that he donates his his extremely talented auctioneer skills to all these organizations. I mean, you know, I mean, it's just, you know, he's a great, great guy,
Unknown Speaker 17:18
you really is, and people don't even might, they might not know that all the time that he donates. I mean, the last 2025 years. I mean, he was for Utah. He is so passionate about Utah wildlife, he was on all of it donating time to like, he was on the RAC board for eight years, I believe he was on the Utah wildlife board for six years. He's still on a different bunch of chapters, land owners associations. And all of that is his free time that he donate much less the auctions that he does, you know, for conservation, all the millions that he has raised that go right back to protecting what we love, whether it's protecting the animals fighting for the habitat, you know, fighting in the courts, like, it's all goes back to protecting what we love. And yeah, I'm really proud of them. He's, he's not only a great person, but he is truly a great conservationist.
Keith Mark 18:08
Yeah. And when I found it, you know, Hunter nation, you know, I mean, john, he was, you know, for us first in line to help What can I do? You know, how do I go? And I mean, I give you credit to Jana, you as well, I mean, you know, I told you, we weren't going to get any politics and I'm not but I mean, even as late as last week, I mean, you're throwing your shoulder behind issues that really matter in the hunting world not and on behalf of hunter nation, I do want to thank you for, you know, one how you portray hunting and hunters, because you are just a perfect example of what's right with our lifestyle. And you're not afraid to stand up and speak out on behalf of hunting and hunting rights. And and I thank you for that.
Unknown Speaker 18:50
I think you It truly is my greatest passion in life. And if I wouldn't have been introduced to it at such a young age, you know, I don't know what people ask me. Well, what do you do when you're not hunting or fishing? I'm always hunting for fish. Like, besides my schoolwork, that is what I do. You know, and I've been really blessed to have an amazing career at it and but it it's it's truly I always refer back to this but it's truly about that movie or documentary called the secret that what what energy you put out there comes back at you it otherwise known as karma, but it's how the world works. It truly is. And I have just been so blessed and so lucky. And yeah, I donate a lot of my artwork and a lot of my time but that energy has come back at me tenfold and it's just, it's just, I feel so blessed to have such an amazing passion because a lot of people I know don't
Keith Mark 19:44
well Jana, those of us that get to watch you were the blessed ones because a lot of the adventures that you go on, most of us will never be able to in our lifetime. You tell the story so perfectly want to thank you for that want to thank you for everything that you do. Thanks for joining, joining us here on Right On The Mark podcast. And I hope we can get you back again some other time.
Unknown Speaker 20:06
Absolutely. It's been a total pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Keith Mark 20:10
Thank you, Jana. Stay around and we'll wrap it up Josh and I'll have some closing thoughts right after this.
Right On The Mark 20:15
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter nation. Hunter nation defends all of our traditional American values, God family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting Hunter nation.org today
Keith Mark 20:34
Welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast and I don't know about you Josh but boy Jana wall or hell inspiration, Oh, for sure. And don't let her donation she kind of just brushed by that she's donate over $75,000 in head so she just brushed right back and never went out of it. A lot of money toward conservation and veteran origin. Well, when you think about all that she does to give back to this lifestyle. I mean, from the mentoring that he that she does with the passion, the passion for sure. But just think about the time she pops in to hunter education classes, she mentors, young, young children, young girls, she donates hours and hours of time at the shows, you know, and these expos, and then I mean, the time that she spends with our Disabled American Veterans, which of course you and I'm and that's near and dear to our heart.
Unknown Speaker 21:26
I mean, it's just incredible and not for the publicity of it. She does it to to further the sport or bring joy to someone. That's right. She doesn't do it for personal gain or anything like that. She does it to help the sport of hunting help a veteran that is hurting or lost limbs or whatever. She's doing it to help them not help herself.
Keith Mark 21:44
And you know what I mean? Just selfishly, I love her program. I mean, you know, when you watch her on there, I mean, it's literally and this is I'm jealous, because you know, when we did Macmillan river, I wanted the viewers to feel like they were floating down the McMillan river when we were getting charged by moose that they felt like they were getting charged by moose. And I hope we did that a little bit. While I tell you she does it. I mean, I'm there and I feel like I'm part of it and her variety. She's from Alaska to Maryland to Texas and and she's hunting moose, or alligator gar sturgeon, or it's a mixture of a gun. I mean, she's you know, she's just the real deal. And now, remember that the show is brought to you by Hunter nation. And if you are not part of hunter nation, I encourage you to go to Hunter nation.org that's Hunter nation.org. Check out all the amazing things that hunter nation is involved in right now. Battles all across the country trying to protect our hunting lifestyle, our hunting rights, this hunting tradition that we have, it's Hunter nation.org. If you're not a member, you need to join Now, come back next time. We'll have more Right On The Mark podcast.
Right On The Mark 22:58
Right On The Mark invite you to like, share and subscribe today. The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of Boehner productions, produced in conjunction with BLT productions Copyright 2020
Episode 5 & 6 featuring Mark "OZ" Geist
Episode 5 - Retired Special Forces Green Beret and true American Hero, Mark “Oz” Geist joins ROTM to talk hunting and how the lessons learned early from hunting helped him become the elite soldier he grew to be. Oz discusses his role in the true-life story, “13 Hours In Benghazi” which is both a bestselling book and Oscar nominated motion picture.
Mark “Oz” Geist is a true American hero who served his country as a Special Forces Green Beret along with various other positions in the civilian world. He has been a small-town police officer specializing in crimes against children, a volunteer firefighter, a bounty hunter and as a private contractor assigned to provide protection for high security people and places.
Oz takes our audience through the process which took him from a small town in Texas to a battleground in Benghazi, Libya. From a chance meeting with a military recruiter in high school to a frantic fight for his life, Oz explains he has always had a drive to serve and be a part of something bigger than himself.
Oz walks us through the days and hours that led up to the infamous attack on a US compound in Benghazi where the US Ambassador Chris Stevens and his staff were being targeted by a heavily armed and coordinated effort militia group on the eleventh anniversary of the 9/11 attack. He recalls how the earliest lessons he learned from childhood hunting with his grandfathers helped him be prepared for the battle that ensued.
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation - https://hunternation.org/
Shadow Warriors Project - ShadowWarriorsProject.org
Guest Links:
Mark “Oz” Geist - MarkGeist.com
Shadow Warriors’ K9 Info - https://shadowwarriorsproject.org/k9
Episode 6 - Mark “Oz” Geist returns for part 2 of this 2-part ROTM and picks up where he left off in telling the story the “13 Hours Of Benghazi”. This episode wraps up with stories from an amazing hunting trip he took with Donald Trump, Jr and Eric Trump to benefit his non-profit organization, Shadow Warriors Project.
Oz continues his detailed explanation of what led up to the concentrated battle he and other former Special Forces fought on September 11, 2012. He recalls how lessons he learned as a young hunter proved to be very helpful as they were outnumbered by a heavily armed militia.
During his recovery process, Oz learned that “contractors” like himself are only paid while they are at work- regardless of injury. This led he and his wife to create, “Shadow Warriors Project” a non-profit organization which helps injured private contractors when they get hurt and can’t support their families. They also have a K9 component which helps wounded veterans by connecting them with a service dog. He shares a compelling story of hunting near the Arctic Circle with Eric and Donald Trump, Jr as part of a fund-raising effort for “Shadow Warriors Project”. Oz faced down a large wolf that had stalked their party.
The episode continues with ROTM’s host, Keith Mark and Oz sharing stories from hunting camps they have shared and questions from our audience. Oz explains his preference for predator hunting and the need for predator hunting to help all conservation efforts. They reflect on their mutual faith in God and the need for good to fight evil.
Oz commends Keith for founding, Hunter Nation and the shock he felt when he first heard from then-candidate, Donald Trump that hunters “don’t vote”. Keith explains that was part of the inspiration behind Hunter Nation and that research data shows that is true. They both reflect on the success of the “Hunt The Vote” project they worked tirelessly on in 2020 and how it helped over 500,000 hunters get registered and vote their values in that election.
Oz closes by reminding everyone of the importance of access to public land for hunting and all forms of recreation and relaxation.
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation https://hunternation.org/
TedNugent.com https://www.tednugent.com/
Mossy Oak https://www.mossyoak.com/
MacMillan River Adventures https://mrahunting.com/
Guest Links:
Mark “Oz” Geist https://www.markgeist.com/
Shadow Warriors’ K9 Info https://shadowwarriorsproject.org/k9
Keith Mark 0:01
You know, just on a personal note, I've always been a big fan of the US military. My father is buried in the military cemetery in Fort Leavenworth. You know, I was taught from before I even knew I was being taught that when the flag appeared to put your hand over your heart, honor the veterans of the US military and certainly honor and revere those heroes that died to protect our freedom and my next guest happens to be one of my best friends in the world. Mark OZ Geist, you know him as one of those incredible secret soldiers from being kasi as part of the 13 hours and Benghazi a book that mark co wrote it's Michael Bay made a movie about it's just incredible. And Mark stories about Benghazi. Well, they're spellbinding and there's so much more to Mark Geist than just that 13 hour saga to learn more about Benghazi and just more about Mark OZ Geist stay tuned because he's my guest. This week on Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 1:05
On The Mark Episode Five part one of two featuring Benghazi hero Mark OZ Geist recorded may of 2021 starts right now.
He has hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 1:51
Well, welcome back to Right On The Mark. And man, am I excited today, my guest is not only a true American hero, distinguished author in his own right. And a great guy and I'm proud to say a very good friend of mine. Welcome, Mark OZ Geist. Hey, Mark.
Mark OZ Geist 2:09
Hey, Keith how are you doing today?
Keith Mark 2:11
You know what, I'm doing pretty good for an old guy. And I it's exciting that I get to talk to you here on the podcast, because, you know, you and I probably talk on the phone daily. So I'm hoping to give the folks listening today just a little taste of how entertaining Mark OZ Geist really is. So feel free to let it rip today. You know, for people listening in, I think they all recognize the name OZ, Mark OZ Geist because of your Benghazi fame? Is that probably how you're most recognized now?
Mark OZ Geist 2:48
I you know, I think so. And I mean, kind of had to run with it when that's what I was called overseas. At least one of the names I was told overseas, there's probably several others. depends on which side of which side of the rifle you were on which one that might be but yeah, it pretty much is what what I most people call the me. So the first thing they asked you, I told you, I call me mark. I'm gonna you know, I've said this a million times, just don't call me late for dinner.
Keith Mark 3:19
That's exactly wrong. So, um, let's kind of set the stage and then I'm going to just kind of turn it over to you and let you talk a little bit. So when people talk about Benghazi and you know, that's really popular now. And obviously it was in the press, and it's been in the press for nearly a decade now. The way people know about that Mark is your co-author of a book called 13 hours. Tell us about that.
Mark OZ Geist 3:49
I'll get right here. But it's 13 hours the inside of account what really happened in Benghazi, we partnered with someone who could write better than any of us guy by the name of Mitchell Zuckoff. And then the rest of it was with the NSA security team. You know, it was it was an awesome way to tell the story. I mean, we had to kind of figure that out. Because, you know, we it wasn't something that we really thought about doing upfront. never really thought about it until the story started coming out through politics. And the story that wasn't being told was the story. That was what really happened on the ground, where everybody else both the left and right took this thing and was throwing it back like a football on game day.
Keith Mark 4:44
Well, let's set the stage for what happened over in Benghazi in those incredible 13 hours that you lived, lived through. Unfortunately, you did not all of your comrades did. But you you were in the military. Tell us about About your military background that led you into the private contractor business and what the difference is.
Mark OZ Geist 5:06
Well, I think, you know, a lot of I mean, I grew up with my grandfather was my hero. He served in World War Two was a tank commander was in North Africa had the North African Campaign Medal. So he had to have been in Patton's Army got injured over there, you have five Purple Hearts, a Silver Star, Bronze Star, was in the push was it wasn't there for Normandy, but he was in the push across Europe into Germany and stayed afterwards in, you know, I never really knew a lot about his stories, because he never really talked about it, like a lot of the guys that that that generation. You know, they lived it, they talked with their buddies about it, but they didn't talk to no one else about it. And so, but I always saw this shadowbox that he has on the wall, or he had on the wall, because he's passed away now, but, and I was the one that he gave that to. And so it was just something that really intrigued me. And he's what led me to the military him and I had three uncles as well that served in the military two in the Navy and one in the Marine Corps. So, you know, that sense of service, something that was ingrained into us. And that's just kind of how I got into the military.
Keith Mark 6:21
So what did you join?
Mark OZ Geist 6:23
Um, best fighting forces in the world, United States Marine Corps force, hey,
Keith Mark 6:27
go do anything but the best. Yeah. When did you go into the Marine Corps? And what was your rank? And what did you do when you're in the Marine Corps?
Mark OZ Geist 6:36
Well, I started, I joined them record. And it was kind of a funny story about a buddy of mine that I grew up with. We were best friends, pretty much since sophomores in high school and our senior year, it was before Christmas. We were walking down the hall together after lunch and getting ready to go to math class. And he just kept walking. And I turned down the other hall to go to math class. And he's like, and while I turned him on my head, keep going. He says, I'm gonna go talk to the Marine Corps recruiter. And I'm like, you mean, I can get out of math class for that? Yeah. So how am I going going with you, if I can find a reason that not have to be in school, my senior year, I found I did everything I could. Down the hallway, talk to the Marine Corps, Marine Corps recruiter. And I mean, I think he saw me coming. Because as a sucker that goes, his first question is, what do you want to do? And I'm like, I want to jump out of airplanes, blow things up and shoot people. And he says, Well, that's sounds like the United States Marine Corps. And that sounds like the infantry. There you go. And so that's really what I started out doing as I joined the Marine Corps and what in the infantry, and my first duty station was in a far off land in Asia, called the Philippines, spent a year and a half over there, and which for a small town, country boy was, was an experience that anybody who's ever been there in the Marine Corps during the 80s can understand.
But those those are different stories Mark.
Well, I can only tell you what other people did, because I was saint, I promise, right. You are You are organizing the prayer group I hear. Yeah. So how long were you in the Marine Corps? Mark?
Keith Mark 8:25
I spent 12 years in the Marines 12 years active? Well, I guess the best way to put that is any marine would say as I'm still a Marine, but I served active duty for 12 years.
And so you came back stateside. And because I know you personally, I know, you kind of missed all that you were able to do while you're in the Marine Corps. And so you were trying to find some of that action over here. So for a while, how'd you try to find the action in the States?
Mark OZ Geist 8:57
Well, after after I got out of the Marine Corps, and caveat, I finished my last five, six years in the Marine Corpsas interrogator/translator. Marine Corps thought that I was smart enough to learn a foreign language and or just dumb enough to volunteer, but I volunteered to learn Persian Farsi, which is what they speak in Iran. And my goal was really wanting to learn Chinese because I figured China was going to be our next best, our next biggest threat. I was only off by about 20 years but had to had to deal with the Middle East. And it worked out. Well. For me. I mean, being a contractor and working in the Middle East. That was my specialty for the last half of my time in the Marine Corps. And then all my time as a contractor.
Keith Mark 9:41
You mentioned interrogation. Did you ever participate in waterboarding?
Mark OZ Geist 9:49
Well, yes, only on the receiving end.
Keith Mark 9:51
Yeah. You know, I've talked to other folks like you that as part of your training, you had to undergo it, so you knew what it would be like, right? Yeah, yep. So do you have any of your prior chat friends in Guantanamo Bay as we speak? Or can you say?
Mark OZ Geist 10:10
You know no, because when I was in the Marine Corps, working as an interrogator, and that's really the only place I've ever worked as an interrogator. And for the military, or for any federal government organizations, so but I know it was all, most of mine was during peacetime, I mean, we did have the first Gulf War, but that thing came in went so quick. You know, and, and most people have a misunderstanding of what true interrogation is about, I mean, for me, the mental side of it, talking to sitting down talking to somebody and getting somebody else to commit treason against their country, you know, by convincing them that that's what's in their best interests through just talking to people it's not about what everyone calls torture or stress positions or anything like that. It's, it's, most people, when you run into them, they're they're willing to tell you whatever, because the fear that they have already in their head that's perceived. And the whole idea of being isolated, because that's what they are once they become a prisoner, and they want to just get back to me, most guys want to just get back to their home, get back to their families and in continue to live in life.
Keith Mark 11:33
So when you got home and back to your family, what did you do stateside? When you got back to Colorado? Right?
Mark OZ Geist 11:40
Yeah, I got out of the Marine Corps and become a deputy sheriff up in Teller, County, Colorado, worked up there for about four no three years. Most of what I do up there was work on crimes against children investigating crimes against children and crimes against women. And then I took a job as chief of police in a small town. I'm literally like, Mayberry, I thought I was gonna have to put one round in my pocket.
Keith Mark 12:11
Now, that would go with the other 40 in the lower pockets, right?
Mark OZ Geist 12:15
Yes. Yeah, so if anybody asks, yep, I've got my one round.
Keith Mark 12:20
Yeah. So. So basically, when you came back, you didn't take the kind of off the beaten path jobs, it seems like you've always had service and patriotism and your blood Mark.
Mark OZ Geist 12:34
It is, you know, I think it's just something that that being a part of something bigger than yourself. I mean, you know, anybody, I think just about anybody who's joined the military, and I would venture to say almost every one of them who has joined any of the the Special Operations units, you know, they want to be a part of something bigger than themselves. And, you know, as well as though most of us are probably running either to something or from something. Which leads us all down, you know, in my opinion, leads us down that road of why PTS affects different people in different ways.
Right On The Mark 13:15
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation, Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God, Family, Country, Conservation, and our Hunting Lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American Hunter, by visiting HunterNation.org. Today.
Keith Mark 13:35
What else did you do when you got back? You are? Yeah, well, I don't want the full details because I know you're going a while but we don't. We don't want Crystal to come in and punch you while we're talking. So you were you took law enforcement jobs. And I think you were a volunteer firefighter for a while.
Mark OZ Geist 13:53
Yeah. Yeah. volunteer firefighter. One of the after about three years working crazy gets the job in a small town, where I grew up are just west of where I grew up. As Chief of Police, kind of like a Mayberry town. It was it really, it was interesting, because it gave you a hold for cyber law enforcement. And after coming out of doing crimes against children, it was a good break. Yeah.
Keith Mark 14:21
Do you see a theme here? Mark, Marine Corps, law enforcement, firefighter, I mean, that seems like an adrenaline junkie, seeking employment.
Mark OZ Geist 14:35
Yeah, probably. I think, though, it's not so much the adrenaline that drove me to those types of jobs. I think it was that that genetic trait or that internal thing that just made me want to be a part of something bigger than myself? Yeah. You know, I think I get more pleasure out of making by helping people than I do anything else. Just being unselfish, selfless service
Keith Mark 15:03
Because I have read 13 hours. And I know eventually you ended back in harm's way overseas. So how did you go from these law enforcement jobs and firefighting jobs in rural Colorado back overseas, risking life and limb?
Mark OZ Geist 15:21
Um, well, I had a short break in between where I was working. I started my own business doing private investigations and bounty hunting.
Keith Mark 15:32
Of course you did? Yeah, yeah. took a break to go bounty hunting. Okay, go ahead.
Mark OZ Geist 15:40
And, you know, from there, I also, you know, this is something I don't talk a lot about, because it was a short stint that really was not very significant in my life is I joined the Carlisle Colorado Army National Guard 19th Group, which was a Special Forces Group. And really, it was the only place that was close enough where I could go and kind of still get that military brotherhood that was that the army had that was as close to the Marine Corps as you could get with, you know, that that sense of service, that sense of teamwork and all of that. So 911 hit, and I knew that I had to get back over there. And I was really trying to, you know, do everything I could with 19th group, because they were test out almost immediately being a special forces unit getting over there. But I kind of ran into a hiccup with the xo at the time, and they said that I didn't have an army MOS, so I couldn't deploy with it. So that was really disappointing. So me and the xo at the time, that leadership, but I could never understand why they wouldn't want somebody whether I had an army MOS or not that spoke the language of the country we're going to war with, right. So we kind of had our words in, separated in I went back to being chief of police and then looking for a way to go back as a contract.
Keith Mark 17:12
Let me stop you Mark, because I'm a mere civilian, what is an MOS?
Mark OZ Geist 17:18
A Military Occupational Specialty, basically a number that classifies what job you do. Wow.
Keith Mark 17:25
Wow, just to have written something on a piece of paper. Yeah, regardless of what you've done for 12 years in the Marine Corps and all the other things that you had done thereafter, I'll be darned. Alright, so how did you end up become a contractor for an alphabet organization?
Mark OZ Geist 17:44
Well, I started out getting a job with a group called triple canopy. And it's a company that was started by a group of guys that had been on the Karzai detail. The protection deal for Karzai, the leader of Afghanistan after we, after our military personnel helped us get, you know, throw out the the Taliban, Karzai was the leader in Afghanistan. So they started up their own private company called triple canopy and I went over and early started with them and around May March or March or May of 2004. And went to Iraq. Protect the State Department personnel in some of the most dangerous places I was in Baqubah Iraq. I don't know we we had more IEDs going off in Baqubah on a daily basis then now. What was going off in
Keith Mark 18:40
Was that Hillary? Um, yeah, I put her on hold. Good place for Okay, go ahead. I felt you know, I got put on hold. So why not? Yeah, well, I think she will show up. No problem waiting. 13 hours for you to get back with her. Yeah, exactly. Well, you know what, that's a pretty good place. Cuz you worked in the contracting business, and it ultimately found you over in harm's way that led to 13 hours. And so I think you have some incredible stories that you can share with the listeners. So stay tuned here for a second Mark, because we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, Mark OZ Geist is going to take us behind the scenes in Benghazi on that fateful night. Stay tuned.
Right On The Mark 19:29
Our good friend Mark OZ Geist, Benghazi hero and decorated veteran has a new mission. And you can help him help him honor Americans who have served our country silently behind enemy lines as contractors, and through their heroic and courageous acts have fallen or been injured. They need our help now. Visit ShadowWarriorsProject.com. That's ShadowWarriorsProject.com these heroes gave a lot. the least we can do is give.
Keith Mark 20:06
All right, welcome back. We're visiting with Mark us guys, true American hero and more important to me, my close friend. So Mark, you worked in the contracting business for how long before we got to the famous events in Benghazi.
Mark OZ Geist 20:26
Back nine, almost nine and a half years I was working from I just said early 2004 till I got injured in September 11. accident I got injured September 12, the morning of September 12 2012.
Keith Mark 20:39
And, you know, people hear the phrase worked as a contractor makes me think of a guy with a tape measure hooked on to his belt, and he's carrying a slide rule and drill and a hammer and he's building stuff. Is that right?
Mark OZ Geist 20:56
You? You would be amazed how many times I tell people, you know, what do you do? I'm a contractor. They're like, Oh, okay, so you build stuff? Yeah, I'm like, yeah, overseas, I build stuff. That's that that works out for me.
Keith Mark 21:06
Well tell our listeners, Mark. What a contractor really is. What What did you do for that nine years?
Mark OZ Geist 21:14
Well, you know, as private contractors, it's, I mean, the US government. I mean, really, if you want to look at the history of it has had private military contractors working for them since 1776. 1775. George Washington, our first president hired a general Lafayette and also another Russian or German to help train the troops. And ever since it's been a part of that to every war we've fought in, we've had private military contractors, whether it be companies or individuals. And I worked as a private security contractor, my job was a couple different ones, primarily to protect people as a security as a bodyguard. And then also I trained Iraqi SWAT teams, emergency response units. I was a security adviser to the US contract to doctor I had Alawi who is one of the former Prime Ministers of Iraq, which was interested in me in South Africa and lived out in town with three Kurdish guys. And we worked for just to make sure that his security the guys were up to speed and he remained safe.
Keith Mark 22:27
Well, so what was the date when you got into Libya, for that led right up to what we're going to talk about the 13 hours.
Mark OZ Geist 22:39
I've been there about 45 days when September 11, September 12 occurred. So it was right around the end of July, I think it was I think I was actually flying on the 30th or 31st was heading over.
Keith Mark 22:56
So I know a lot and I know your personality, oz. When you got there. One of the things that you're most noted for is your attention to detail, where this is where that is how I get from point A to B. And then multiple plans thereafter, tell me about lay the groundwork for what you did mentally and physically, that prepared you to survive those 13 hours.
Mark OZ Geist 23:25
Well, one of the big, you know, my thing was one learning the city knowing where everything was, you know, I felt it was my responsibility to know the city as well as if I'd lived there for 10 years. And I want to know, all the back street alleys, everything like that, so I could get around. You know, because every country I've ever been in when something goes down or I mean at the whim of whatever government or militia or whoever's in charge of that area. You know, they love to throw up impromptu checkpoints. And if you don't, you know, if I don't know how to get around, then I'm gonna get hemmed up in those kind of things. So, you know, me personally was just no one where I was going to be working and knowing that like, like I was if I was a local so and
Keith Mark 24:11
so we're Where are you working? Where were you stationed when
Mark OZ Geist 24:13
I was working in Benghazi, Libya. And if you ever look at a map, it looks like it's a wagon wheel. Um, you've got down towards the center of the town is the port and the port was ran by a militia that was kind of quasi friendly, almost like organized crime, really. The airport which was on the opposite end of town, almost out towards the us some of the desert was ran by another militia. And then you know, that they really at least initially, there wasn't any law enforcement. There was probably at least five to seven more training camps or militias that had training camps or something like that around and it but if you're looking at You have the center of town and then out from it were roads that came out like the spokes of a wagon wheel. And then you had rings that went around it. And it was called, they're actually named first ring, second ring, third ring, fourth ring, fifth ring, and sixth ring roads. I was living in a place that was about off of between fourth and fifth ring. And so
Keith Mark 25:25
what was that called? Oh, that was called the annex. And who was running the annex? I mean, you were working at that time for
Mark OZ Geist 25:34
a group that is one some people call it the CIA. I call it the Culinary Institute of America, which I guess is the same thing. It was we were running a polling a baking school.
Keith Mark 25:49
Yes. Yes. It's perspective. So what? So um, we all know that there was an embassy close by but up through what we're about to talk to, did you have any contact with the embassy? Or had you done any interaction with the personnel at the embassy?
Mark OZ Geist 26:07
Yeah, you know, the embassy was about a mile away as the crow flies, the back of the embassy, but it up to fourth Ring Road. And then the front of it was a dirt road. Our super secret name for it was consolate road, because we figured if we talked about it, if they called it consolate road, no one would understand where we're talking about.
Keith Mark 26:26
Okay. And so had you been over to the embassy? Prior to this with?
Mark OZ Geist 26:31
Yeah, yeah, we had, you know, there was off and on probably, at least once or twice a month, I would make it over there, depending on what for, you know, the, the consulate. And I guess one of the bigger things to kind of show is the, the annex was about the size of a football field. We had four buildings in the if anybody has seen the movie, it's, they did a really, really good job of mimicking what it looked like there was four buildings, there's a center area where there was a little grass, I don't get a garden area. And the four buildings in there were one on each basically set up in kind of a diamond shape. Opposite the walls. And those were all living quarters. And you know, but to get around it, I think if we, if I was going to run, it was about a quarter mile to run around the whole thing. So that's where it's kind of I kind of determined about size of a football field.
Keith Mark 27:42
And that's the annex. Yeah, okay. So now when we're let's just take a second go over to the consulate or the embassy, if you will give us the dimensions of that. And some of the problems that you initially saw when you got there. For the first time.
Mark OZ Geist 27:59
Well, the first time I pulled in there, I mean, it was beautiful. I mean, they had nice backyard lawns, there was a nice grape orchard in the back a lot of different fruit trees. And then that was one compound. And then there was a alleyway that ran in between those, that one and the next one, which they had broken the walls out and made a dry pathway, you could drive from one to the other. And they added another one that was on that side. So estimate, it was probably about seven to eight acres is what those two compounds they together were
Keith Mark 28:34
from a security defensible standpoint, what were your thoughts about it?
Mark OZ Geist 28:40
Um, well, I mean, best way to put it is they had five diplomatic security guards at that facility at the most at any one time. And when the ambassador was in, there's there was times when the ambassador was in Tripoli, if he wasn't on station that they would have maybe three guys there. Well, and yeah, it's pretty. And I think it was, you know, the administration at the time, had this idea of letting them feel letting the Libyans feel like they were running their own country.
Keith Mark 29:18
At the peril of learning at the peril of our personnel, you think?
Mark OZ Geist 29:23
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, and for myself, I mean, I understand the job that I take, but at some point, a, you know, at least over to consulate, the consulate was very inadequately protected. I mean, there is no reason you should have had that few people. There was no official Well, I can't say there was zero there was very little, if any, at all official, Libyan government entities in Benghazi. I mean, there was no police force. It was ran Oh by militias. You know, which in a sense probably wasn't too different than it ever had been even when qaddafi was there. But the problem is, is after the overthrow of qaddafi, you know, every single arms room that the millet that the military the Libyan military had was busted open. And these malicious went in and stole everything they could. And I mean, everything from ak 40, sevens and pistols to RPGs, and surface to air missiles.
Keith Mark 30:28
Wow. All right. Take us to the night that started all of this. Tell me the date. And tell me what your plans were that evening that got interrupted by the 13 hour saga?
Mark OZ Geist 30:42
Well, it was me septet coming up to September 11. You know, every place I'd been for every year since 2001. It was one of those things, you always considered your threat level a little bit higher, and your concerns a little bit higher and looking for stuff. What might be and not be because it is September 11, the alkaitis of the world and the ISIS is of the world or their offshoots would love to try to kill Americans on that date. It's kind of a big honor for them to, especially on that date to kill an American. And so you know, we weren't planning too much. From our standpoint, over at the Culinary Institute, the consulate had to really shut down their operations. And the ambassador wasn't going to move at all. From what I was told. And again, I caveat that with had never met the ambassador myself. But I did know his security detail that was there pretty well. And kind of a last minute thing, a move came up where me and a female case officer had to go out in town, not basically we were going to go on a dinner date with a local Libyan couple. So we went over and it was deemed okay. Or at least it got approved from my standpoint, at least by our chief of base because we were going from our compound driving straight over and going into another secure compound. And so we went over there, I think we left probably around 5:30-6 o'clock at night. And we went over there and had dinner and I think celebrated the guy that we were meeting with and his wife for their daughter's birthday and was going to sit back and smoke the hookah pipe and just share some stories.
Keith Mark 32:32
Then what happened.
Mark OZ Geist 32:34
I got a, I got a phone call from time Tyrone Woods, also known as Roan. And Ty called me and said, Hey, OZ you need to get back to the annex, stay away from the consulate. And it was over a cell phone. So you know, he wasn't gonna say too much. And I didn't need to know too much more than that, at that point, because he was calling to interrupt something, I knew it was going to be pretty important. So you know, I'd stepped away to take that phone call. And I come back. And I whisper into the case officers ear that we needed to leave right away and kind of brought pictor not picked her up, but escorted her over to our car. And we got into our car. And at that point, I was able to turn on secure communications because I had that inside the car. And we headed out the front gate and beside on and was making our way back to the annex.
Keith Mark 33:30
And what what was happening what when you found out what what did they tell you what's going on?
Mark OZ Geist 33:36
Well, I didn't no one was talking to us at that time. And I didn't need to talk to them because I could just hear what was coming over the radio. And I didn't want to interfere with important communications with just me kind of trying to figure out what was going on, basically, and the embassy, you know, what I heard was a lot of gunfire. I could hear a case. Yeah, it was it was it was radio traffic from the annex to the embassy. Or to the consulate. I shouldn't say embassy embassy was back in Tripoli, but to the consulate or the other thing they called it a lot of times was the special mission facility. And what they did here, aka fire, you hear belt fed machine guns, which was our PKs and PKMS, and then the RPGs going off and you can hear the explosions going off. And the one thing that really kind of hit this stuck in my mind was and to this day was the fear in that whoever which I later found out was their team leader, their team leader coming over the radio saying if you don't get here now we are going to all all die. And, you know, for the sake of ears out there, there was a few expletives in there as well.
Keith Mark 34:51
So without knowing the where's the you know, the particulars you knew the proverbial shite had just hit the fan.
Mark OZ Geist 34:59
Yeah. Yeah, I it really kind of told me what was going on just from the fact that, you know, and they came over the radio and it wasn't like they said they were being attacked. It's they had been overran. Wow. And you know at that that's all I needed to know at that time, because you know what I was really worried about myself, and was for the female case officer and us getting back safely. You know, because if we wouldn't, by taking this, maybe five, you know, four to five minutes to get back at best. But the problem is, is that what it took his real close to where the consulate was, as well as through some of the areas where our, I would suspect or I assumed it would probably be instead of going that route, we took a longer route headed up to coast, headed west along the coast, circled back in through some of the uninhabited areas part of the desert, that kind of stuff come back in, took about 30 to 45 minutes, maybe an hour, and was kind of made it back in avoided almost every checkpoint, we ended up running into one at the very last which was a little bit hairy. But thank goodness the Lord was looking out for us and was able to make it past that one without being identified and made it back to the annex.
Keith Mark 36:27
Well, Mark, I know how this story goes, and I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear you tell it but we're out of time for this episode, but stick around and we'll get to the rest of the story on part two. So stay tuned. For more Right On The Mark right here.
Right On The Mark 36:42
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our host guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions, produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021
Keith Mark 0:00
Hey, thanks for coming back to part two of our interview with my good friend Marcus Geist. And in this episode we're going to talk hunting. We're going to talk about his new mission. We're going to take some questions, but first, let's get right back into that hair raising description of his 13 hours in Benghazi
Right On The Mark 0:18
Right On The Mark Episode Six, part two of two featuring Benghazi. He wrote Mark OZ Geist, recorded May of 2021 starts right now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's right on the mark.
Keith Mark 1:06
Okay, welcome back. And well, I'll tell you what, I'm on the edge of my seat. I hope you guys are as well, we're talking to true American hero Mark OZ Geist And Mark has just gotten this into the start of the 13 hour saga that he in his friend so adequately told in the book, 13 hours, and then the movie by its same name. And Mark, I don't want you to tell us the whole 13 hours, because I think everybody that's listening, Sure ought to get that book and watch that movie. But I do want you to touch on just a couple of little points in there from stories that you've shared with me. So during the initial attack, I just want you to tell the folks how up close and personal this actually was once everything went on over at the consulate, the boys came back from the consulate. And I mean all that. And I think that's so incredibly intense that let them just watch it in the movie, or read the book. But when you were on the ground there, defending the annex, when the initial wave came, just just take our listeners through that initial onslaught, and exactly where you were and what you did, and how up and close and personal It was
Mark OZ Geist 2:21
Our compound, probably about a nine or 10 foot wall around it. We had a back gate that was on our eastern wall, the front gate was on our southern wall. And so I was on the north side or the I was on the north eastern side right in between the rear gate was to my right. And we can see movement, you can hear cars pulling up and we started seeing movement 15-20 guys somewhere around there. And you know, luckily for us, we had technology on our side, we had nvgs we had some infrared lasers. And you know, we could identify targets as they're moving up. And Tig was coming over to my position, Tonto and DB were on one of the elevated an elevated position on that top of a roof top. And we at that point that we were just kind of identifying each where each of us saw tarnish, we deployed our lasers, you know, the guys, the bad guys can see the lasers unless they have night vision devices or something like so. And we knew that they didn't have that kind of stuff, or at least we were pretty much banking on it. But talking Tonto and DB, we're up top and we were all just identifying where we saw targets and we had strike spot like it's a floodlights, spotlights, red floodlights on the outside of our walls that kind of covered out to about 30 yards, 20-30 yards out from the wall. And, you know, our thought process, I mean, kinda even without saying it was, we were still let them get as close as they want to think they, you know, let them scoot up and get close and then kind of like Concord, you know, let's wait till we see the whites of their eyes and we were going to unload on them and not. During that time Tig was moving over and what really kind of started it was a guy and kind of got up close it was through a D over the wall. And when it landed, it landed in between me and TIG luckily didn't have any shrapnel it blew up and that was really kind of what initiated that first assault onto us. And, you know, we just got to start picking them off like prairie dogs. I thought I was back home sitting on my granddad's place, just shooting whatever came up, whatever stuck its head up up.
Keith Mark 4:35
and I know you're a hunter, and so your hunting skills came into play there and prairie dogs got dropped all around, I guess.
Mark OZ Geist 4:43
Yeah. I mean it. It lasted maybe, you know, five to seven minutes, somewhere around there, maybe 10 at most. I mean, it was pretty short lived. I think, you know, those the militia that was assaulting us the most His name was Onstar, Austria. And I think they thought they were going to come into our area the same as they did over at the consulate. You know, but as I've told you many a time, I mean, the sheep dogs protecting the annex had a few more teeth in their mouth. And then what was over tactic consulate I think conflict great guys wasn't the guys that were there that was the problem as much as it was the assets that they were given to help protect the ambassador on that big of an area.
Keith Mark 5:33
So without getting into any of the other particulars of that fateful evening, those 13 hours for you. And for some of your close friends there. It really boiled down to about the last three minutes.
Mark OZ Geist 5:49
Yeah, I did. I mean, myself, Ty, and Glen, Glen was the team leader from our sister team up in Tripoli, they were able to obtain a or gain access to a civilian aircraft and make their way down and had made their way there. It was about five o'clock in the morning and not, you know, it was, that's when the last firefight occurred. And this really told you the level of sophistication of this militia and their capability because it was a very complex attack. I mean, I, you know, the first couple attacks that they made treat, and I think it was they hadn't gotten set up, they hadn't, you know, they thought it was gonna be an easy push, just like at the consulate, but they came in at us with RPGs, Belt fed machine guns, AKs and indirect fire, which is like artillery and mortars. And they dropped some mortars in on us, and they had us dead to rights. And, you know, I mean, four mortars, hit within about two minutes, and they hit three of those mortars hit the roof top. That doesn't happen unless you're good at what you do. Anybody out there that's a Mortarman knows kind of how hard that is to do that on getting your first target. Get your first rounds on target.
Keith Mark 7:07
So what's the killing ratio? Those motors that hit the roof there in the last two or three minutes?
Mark OZ Geist 7:15
At they were 81 millimeter mortars from everything, looking at the tail fence, because I see some pictures from I think it was ABC was the group that first the news group that got over there first, looking at the tail fins of those things that were left there was they looked like french 81s. And the french 81 has a killer radius. They said route 131 feet. So if you're within 131 feet of that you have about a 90 being a kill radius set, but a 98% chance of dying.
Keith Mark 7:47
And how many of those rounds went off with you inside that radius?
Mark OZ Geist 7:54
Three of them did? Well, you could actually say all four did the first one hit the outer wall, which was about, oh, probably 90, maybe 90 feet away, and then by the time to the rooftop. So that one was real close, I was on the outer edges of that one, but the other three were within about 15 to 17 feet of me.
Keith Mark 8:17
And what kind of damage did those roof top mortars do right there at the end?
Mark OZ Geist 8:23
Well, the first one went off in about severed my arm off my left arm. That's the one that killed TY. And the second one went off, and it landed right in prep just about in front of Glen and killed him and I got shrapnel from that one as well. And then the third one landed again, it just, they were kind of like a little lion almost coming back from the edge of the rough, about dropped about 15 out probably 12 feet and then another seven feet after that. So they were right there in a line. But they were all within 15 to 17 feet to my right and I ended up having shrapnel in my neck and four or five pieces of shrapnel in my chest. I still have about I think I got three pieces of metal still there, up and down both legs and arms. My left arm was about blown off about six inches above the wrist. And that's why I think we can have 20 to 25 holes total.
Keith Mark 9:18
My gosh, well, some divine intervention there for you, but you sure lost some good friends and comrades that morning.
Mark OZ Geist 9:27
Yeah, you know, I was you know, and a lot of people you bring up the divine intervention, you know, I, I call it our seventh man. And, you know, we've had there was, there was too many things that happened that night that were that were able to allow us to save the 20 some odd people that were there that we did save and get them back home to their families without without the grace of God. And you know, a lot of people ask me about my faith is there like was, you know, was that something that was After Benghazi and I, you know, I was born, born and raised as a Christian Methodist Church, sang in the church choir, at a wonderful youth pastor and his wife were probably really instrumental in in building giving me that foundation in my relationship with the Lord. But you know, it's I've seen a lot of people killed in the name of religion and I think there's a difference between religion and a relationship with the Lord. Religion is a man made thing and and that relationship with Jesus Christ in the Lord is something that is personal that each one of us has or should have. And even difference was after being before Benghazi I probably wasn't as I tried to find ways to live my life, that with my relationship with the Lord, but that wasn't the focus. And I mean, I'm hard headed German marine in the Lord blowing me up three times to get my attention.
Keith Mark 11:00
Wow. Well, when we come back, I want to talk to you about how the events of Benghazi in those 13 hours has led you to the ministry that you're now involved with. So stay tuned. We're gonna have more with American hero, Mark OZ Geist,
Right On The Mark 11:16
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation, Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God family, country conservation, and our hunting lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org. Today.
Keith Mark 11:35
Okay, Mark, thanks for joining us. And you know, boy, I tell you what, I really needed a break after you were telling the Benghazi story. I mean, I've heard it many times, but it is honestly I mean, it is harrowing. And it's it's just unbelievable what you went through. But that's led you to where you are now, so to speak. Tell us about the current ministry that you're involved in and the things and the projects that you're involved in that allows you to give back.
Mark OZ Geist 12:07
No, it was almost immediately. I mean, there was a lot of things that took place with my injuries. Getting back from Germany, from Libya to you know, was first it was into Tripoli, where I had my first life saving surgery by a Libyan by Libyan doctors in a Libyan hospital, for their to Germany was in Germany for a few days until I could get a could get me stabilized. And then came back to the US and, you know, went through that process is private security contractors. We don't have the resources for support like the military does. I mean, basically, I'm an independent contractor for the US government. Now, granted, I understand I, you know, I, I take that, and I understood that when I took the job, but what I did experience and me and my family is first is what we have for support is a workman's comp policy and, you know, you working with your private job as dealing with workman's comp know how wonderful and how supportive they are of those that you know, even those that are working on a day to day basis here in America to fight every day. He exactly, I think I find I had with workman's comp was probably as hard as it was with Indian Ghazi. At least I knew where the guy the bad guys were when when I was in Benghazi. But you know, it's unfortunate that we have because there has been a significant amount of contractors, both security and others that have worked overseas in the last 20 years. And continue to work, you know, we got 271 ish diplomatic facilities around the world. And there are military personnel, there are US government employees. And there are also US citizens who were contracted to work at these facilities for a lot of different jobs. And unfortunately, the majority of those contractors don't have to support if they get severely injured or killed. Their families don't have that. Because if we don't have those resources, like the military, I didn't know, really, I didn't have any personal contact with any of the guys that I've met before other than Tonto. We had met a couple of times at a training evolution. But other than that, I never worked with any of the guys I was with. So obviously, my families, my family and their families never had any contact and, you know, we struggled a lot. We didn't get our first workman's comp checks until after the first of the year in the 2013. And as a contractor, I only got paid when my feet were in the country I was contracted to work in so This September 12, was my last day day.
Keith Mark 15:03
Wow. So all the struggles, in your own family struggles and your conversations with your other friends that were injured, then that led you to a revelation of how you could actually give back and help other people in this circumstance. Tell us about that?
Mark OZ Geist 15:23
Well, unless it's me and my wife, I think I, when I first mentioned it, I thought first came into my mind, I was still in the hospital in at Walter Reed down in DC. And, you know, I knew I wanted to help others. And it was that, again, I think it's essence of selfless service. But we ended up starting an organization called shadow where your project, and what we do our primary and our our foundation was to help those who get killed or injured. overseas in combat related injuries, and make sure those families are taken care of. And they are because, well, we found out through our experiences, that first three months is really the most difficult because your life changes 100%, if you can't go back to work, or you're so severely injured as I was, the PE stops, there was no one there to help with the workman's comp process, how that works, going through Department of Labor, all of that, you know. And so we decided to help fill that void. And we try to make sure that a family who is killed or severely injured where the husband can't go back to work their first three months of bills, covering those big ones, you know, especially the house, keeping the lights on keeping the heat going, car payments, that kind of stuff, making sure they have that, because their income stream has just changed dramatically. I mean, it went from, you know, granted, as a contractor, I made good money. I mean, I was paid somewhere around $700 a day. But then it was gone. And, you know, my wife didn't work at that time, because she wanted to stay home and take care of the kids. So we went from making money to not and thank goodness for us is every month, you know, people would reach out and help and make sure that we we were able to make those bills. So we wanted to continue that. And that's kind of what our foundation was built upon.
Keith Mark 17:22
Starting out with a big heart and soul shadow warriors is not for profit. It is and it's not for profit. And it relies 100% on the generosity of people that know your mission, that contribute to shadow warriors to allow you to go out and help people, just like yourself that have risked everything for this country and got injured. Is that right?
Mark OZ Geist 17:48
Yeah, yes, you know, it's is that it's the, you know, their, their compassion, to help those that continue to serve those that continue to want to serve their country and other aspects other than the military.
Keith Mark 18:02
So those people that are listening right now that have been touched by your story, Mark, and how you got hurt, and how you and your family struggled until you finally got a check. And then knowing that you're now through shadow warriors, alleviating a lot of those problems and stresses on families that are facing just terrible times. How do they reach out to you so they can donate and help shadow warriors in your mission?
Mark OZ Geist 18:30
The best way to do that is go to shadow warriors. project.org is our website. And if you go there, you can go in and donate. And you can read more about us, you can find out what we're doing, because we've actually extended over this last year, about a year and a half ago, almost two years ago, I got a service dog. Her name is rhon named after Tyrone Woods, he got killed next to me. And she's really made a big difference in my life. You know, she's a service mobility dog, she helps me get out get around, be be more able to be in the public. And so we started providing service dogs initially, for contractors. And we spread that out to also to our military veterans, our brothers and sisters who were out there that have given so much as well.
Keith Mark 19:21
And I know just recently, Mark and that you've spent a lot of time with veterans and contractors that have been injured with the dog project. And you were telling me last week about some of the fantastic successes that you've had with these people with, you know, post traumatic stress and so on through this dog project. And I think for the next couple of weeks, you're actually going to be out of the country working with this exact same project, right?
Mark OZ Geist 19:48
Yeah. We have a donor that was done in Lubbock, Texas. We call her Nana, her name is Margaret. she, her son had gotten a dog from the Adding canine, which is where I got my dog, at least has the breeder. Special Operations Wounded Warrior is the one who donated her to me. But she has built this facility down in Lubbock to see saw the change in her grandson. her grandson was pretty much on a downward spiral from his son and overseas and just he got a dog and it changed his life. So she has built a facility funded facility for us down in Lubbock, Texas, that we are working with them. We're renting the facility from them and working together to bring veterans in and we're doing some what we're calling I call it canine therapy. I got a lot of doctors out there and therapist to say you can't you're not a therapist, so you can't call that therapy. I'm like, well, I've been through enough therapy and have self induced therapy. I can feel myself a therapist.
Keith Mark 21:02
Unbelievable. Well, if you're listening, Shadow warriors project.org shadow warriors project.org go there. This surely is touched your heart like it's touched mine. flat out I'm asking you give to Shadow Warrior, Shadow warriors project.org. So Mark and his wife crystal continue this mission that they're doing such great work with, with people that have really risked it all so we can do what we do. Mark stay tuned because we're going to change gears and talk about your faith a little bit more and then we're going to tell some hunting stories. So stay tuned and we'll be back with Mark oz Geist.
Right On The Mark 21:43
Do you have the spirit of the wild? If so check out TedNugent.com. For one stop shopping for concert updates, hunting opportunities with Ted's Sunrise Safaris, autograph swag, heads latest news, and anything Ted visit TedNugent.com
Keith Mark 22:02
You know, Mark, my favorite picture of you as civilian Marco's Geist is the one where you have that big black charcoal gray wolf over your shoulders. Man, tell tell me that story.
Mark OZ Geist 22:17
You know, I was up in the Northwest Territories in Canada about 100 miles south of the Arctic Circle. With and well, and I was with one of our good friends. Yeah. You can say a mark you can? Well, I was gonna say no matter what, but I was waiting. You know, it's, I was with one of our good friends or two of our good friends really done and Eric Trump, June, it was Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, and I was the first time I got to meet his son, Donald Trump, Jr. the third. But it was it was an amazing hunt that they were out hunting grass eaters. When I was back to the cabin, and when I say cabin, it was about 12 feet, maybe 15 feet wide by about maybe at best 20 feet long. And there were six of us that lit that slept in there and had no running water didn't have electricity or anything like that. So I mean, it wasn't living up to lifestyle. That's the one thing that's really impressed me about the Trump family, especially the boys there that they are their true hunters are true outdoors. But they were out hunting caribou, trying to get one and they were like I said he and Greg, they were hunting grass eaters, and I was fixing dinner is about nine o'clock at night, as you know, up that far north side, sun doesn't really set much at all, especially in you know, around July, August time period, I think it was in mid August. And the guide that was with me was out front and he says hey, I saw there's a wolf. And I mean, I would much rather hunted anything that's a predator than grass eaters, much so myself. I mean, I love eating grass eaters. But that challenge of getting something that has teeth that can hurt you is a whole nother story. So of course, I ran outside and I looked through the scope and about a mile away there was a big male Wolf and a female. And my first reaction was, heck with dinner, I ran back and grabbed my rifle and started running in the direction of that wolf because that the same time the wolf left, that position was running towards me as what I saw last in the scope, so I figured I'm going to go try to meet it before it gets to our camp. And I ran about 150 yards and I was pretty windy and I'm sitting there. I'm looking for it. I'm scanning across the ground and through the sage brushs not sage brush but it's kind of like Just for a boat and I see some movements I take off run in that direction again and run about another 100 150 yards and me and this wolf come across each other in the middle of 70 yards I think it was this opening the wolf came across that site I came out immediately dropped to a knee and leveled off my rifle and the wolf froze i think is the first time that we'll favorite saw a human being he didn't know what he was gonna come after or what he was coming after so I'm sitting there trying to get a bead on this wolf you know, and I mean I'm breathing like I'm out of shape which I was out of shape and I mean my skills go on like this and the wall started to take off and it went back behind some scrubbing some more scrub and come back around and right as it come around, I come off my scope and howlled and it froze and I was just caught my breathing under control and was getting ready to pull the trigger when it started to take off so I just moved it to its nose pulled the trigger put one through its first shoulder just behind his front shoulder at an angle blew out the far shoulder and pretty much went right through the heart when we gutted it figured that out and dropped it right there. Wow, what is the best part of it was I got the whole thing on camera too because we had a cameraman that was with us to film this hunt because it was all about raising money for Shadow Warriors Project that's why I Don and Eric came is to help make it a little bit more fun and more lucrative for shadow warriors helping us out
Keith Mark 26:34
Yeah, I saw the footage and it's good but not as good if my sidekick Josh Ishmael Cam had filmed it right. So that's a great status a great story Mark. Stay tuned and we'll be back with Mark OX Geist.
Right On The Mark 26:50
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Mossy Oak at Mossy Oak. A life Outdoors is in your DNA shop, their incredible pattern selection and more at MossyOak.com Mossy Oak, feed your obsession. Hey,
Keith Mark 27:05
welcome back to the podcast or with Mark OZ Geist, Hey, Mark, I'm gonna bring my Producer Tim Lamar in. We've got several people listening today. And they've texted in some questions. So hey, Tim, are you there? Tim?
Tim Lamar 27:18
I am here. Alright, Tim, fire away love this because Mark has absolutely no idea. Neither do I. But let's put him on the spot. Fires a question away. Mark, what's your favorite animal to hunt?
Mark OZ Geist 27:30
Um, well, so far it's been it's been the Wolf. I mean, that whole time up there. I think during that week, I think we're up there for about 10 days. And we saw about nine wolves. And the day before there was a White Wolf that was stalk and had been stalking in one of our other hunters. Wow. And got within about 60 yards of him before he got no they noticed him and they shot at it. The hunter shot a little high because he was shooting downhill and the wolf was in a cross position. And I think that was one reason why I was really interested in getting that wolf is when it started coming towards us, I figured must be part of a bigger packs that had been very curious about what we were doing in his territory.
Keith Mark 28:20
Well, any other questions? Yeah.
Tim Lamar 28:22
Is there a best caliber for personal defense? What would be your choice? For a run of the mill non military regular Joe?
Keith Mark 28:32
Yeah, that's a good question. I'm interested with this one.
Mark OZ Geist 28:36
You know, honestly, I think from the from the handgun aspect, the nine mil and the reason for that is today's technology, with those people out there that are making the ammo now for us civilians, they are doing it in ways that you know, are a little bit past that they got the technology down, just far exceed the capabilities of what used to be the old ball ammunition, or the traditional hollow point. And the other thing is, is it's so I've got a set of rules in my life. Rule number one obviously is God Family Country Core. The second is anything that's worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice because ammo is free, and life isn't. So the nine mil actually from a fiscal standpoint allows you one to carry a larger capacity. And it also allows you to get that second and third and fourth round on target. You know, just in case that target keeps coming. That threat keeps coming.
Keith Mark 29:37
Love it. Tim,
Tim Lamar 29:39
did you have one weapon or a favorite weapon when you were in service while in combat? What was your go to?
Mark OZ Geist 29:47
Well, if I had the choice of any weapons on September 11 and 12, there would have been a Spectre gunship. I'll take two of those. If you're ordering an F 16 or F 15 with with a j dam on it, which is 1000 pound bomb that is laser guided to come in. Okay, those as well. From a personal weapon standpoint, honestly, you know I want the gun that's going to work when I pull the trigger and you know the, the the market out there in this day and age with how to put it. Everyone else likes to call them assault rifles, but they're not assault rifles because they're semi automatic rifles that, like the the, you know, the what the military has is the sameM4 the AR 15 is the civilian model of that is, there's so many companies out there that make just tremendous firearms. Currently, what I carry is where I have is Sig Sauer's MCX, and it is a wonderful weapon that has a lot of possibilities.
Keith Mark 31:04
Awesome.
Tim Lamar 31:05
Do you have any advice for either new or a veteran shooter? Just in general? How do you improve your target your marksmanship?
Mark OZ Geist 31:16
Um, I guess for especially for new shooters. And if you've ever shot before, I unless you've been trained by a professional instructor, I would forget everything that grandpa taught you. And I would focus on a few things. One is sight alignment, sight picture and trigger squeeze. And number two is crawl, walk run. I mean, what's gonna make you a good shooter is that dry fire that you can do? doesn't have to do with firing live ammo, it is going through the motions of Where do you keep that weapon and how are you going to employ it and have you thought through those scenarios. And when you do that, again, going back to crawl, you know, crawl, walk, run as those through your mind about how that scenario would work. And then just as something as simple as drawing it. First thing is your grip, bringing it out of the holster, come in here and moving it forward until you got sight alignment, sight picture and trigger squeeze. That is going to be the things that make you a excellent shooter more than anything else you can do.
Keith Mark 32:24
Well, stay tuned, we're gonna have more and more guys when we come back. Great tip sauce.
Right On The Mark 32:30
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Keith Mark 32:56
Alright, Mark, welcome back. And I do want to talk about some hunting stuff, which I know you're a hunter and you and I spent a lot of time in the field together. But before we leave the topic of your faith and your ministry, I want you to tell a story that I actually I witnessed you and I and your wife, Crystal, we were having supper one evening in Denver, and a lady came in. And I think you'll remember this as I start telling this. And she said, Are you Mark markaz guys from Benghazi? And you said Yes, ma'am. And then she proceeded to ask you if you were scared during that 13 hours, and I was taken back and you said No, ma'am. And do you remember what you told her? Mark?
Mark OZ Geist 33:50
You know, I for the longest time? I didn't mean you reminded me of that? I don't know. I guess it's been a couple of years ago now. But I do remember that, you know, we were having that get together and that lady came up. And you know, I said she'd asked me about Benghazi and everybody stopped and started listening. I could tell the tables around two started, got quiet and we're listening. She asked me just like you said, she said, Were you scared at night? And I said no, because I'm immortal. I probably said that it was a little bit of my marine cockiness to me. But really what the cockiness comes from is my faith with with the Lord and Jesus Christ, because that's she was like, the look on her face was really kind of a gas. I guess.
Keith Mark 34:37
There wasn't a sound in the restaurant when she said, Were you scared? And you said no, Mama, I'm immortal. And like you said that there wasn't a sound in that entire restaurant. And do you after a pause there? You said until God decides otherwise. And I'll tell you what it it was really meaningful to me, Mark And I think everyone in the restaurant because you could just hear kind of a sigh come out of everyone. And when you think about that, we are all immortal until God decides otherwise. And it's our faith that allows us to go from start to end. And well, I'll tell you what, that was a meaningful event in my life. And I've shared that story many times, I guarantee everyone in that restaurant did as well. And that's, that's really quite something. Let's talk about hunting. You mentioned it earlier, you shot a few prairie dogs over in Benghazi or something kinda like that. You grew up in a hunting family, right?
Mark OZ Geist 35:36
Yeah, I grew up farming and ranching. And so you know, hunting was all a part of it. You know, I mean, I can remember the youngest of age, my grandfather, that's where I really did any a lot of shooting was at my grandfather's place. You know, he had, I think it was upwards of 5000 acres. Some of it was in corn, a lot of what was in alfalfa. And then it was a lot of it was, it was high plant. I mean, we live in a high plains desert. So it was buffalo grass, and we ran cattle out there. And one of the biggest day you know, things that injures cattle and horses is prairie dog towns. And you know, you if you don't take care of them, you'll have a three to five acres of prairie dogs and your cattle go through their horses go through there, and they step in one of the holes and break an ankle Break a leg. And that cost to the farmers and ranchers dearly. So my grandfather would put me on my brother, he's two years older than me up on up on a little hill overlooking them. And it gave us a box of ammo and say, I want to be able to kill as many dead prey dogs as I give you rounds. I don't think that I was ever able to truly fulfill that desire his but he set the bar high and said, this is the standard try to reach it. And it was a challenge. So me being as competitive as I was between that challenge and my brother I had to try to do better and my older brother Right,
Keith Mark 37:03
right. Well, that's that's the epitome of aim small, Miss small. And I'm pretty confident that there were several of the militia members over there and being Ghazi that regretted you had such training. But you know, I think you and I have elk and antelope and Turkey and alligator. And we've done a lot of hunting together. But one story that I would like you to share, I'll share and you can chime in liberally. We were down in Florida and one of those big swamp buggies carrying a RS pig hunting. And I've never done it. And I don't think you had at the time and my son Zach was with us and and the guy said, here's how it's gonna go down. You know, we're just gonna rip through the swamps. And when we see, you know, hogs, hey, just let them have it. So away we went. And the guy that was driving the swamp buggy saw the hogs and he goes out there's a pack of dogs, you know, and about the time I see him in there is about six of them running up in front of us. And by the time I recognize the targets, and by the time I lifted the gun to my shoulder, Marcus guy said already cracked off about five pigs.
Mark OZ Geist 38:12
I'd say yeah, if you want to have a blast if you want to. I mean there's very few things I love honten but that was that took it that was just completely different. I mean, you're it's kind of some of that adrenaline rush you're on board and big swap buggies which basically is a monster truck. But there's no truck bed. It's just a flat platform with aircraft, basically like racing seats in it. You're strapped to those and the drivers, they're driving and it goes through everything. I mean, you're going over the Palmetto trees. Jason hogs and and shooting everything. Every every one of them.
Keith Mark 38:50
Yeah, you did to man I might have shot one. I think we killed about 21 hogs that day. now between you and Zack But now what a trip and I'll tell you we had darn near life ending event on that same trip. Remember that? Yeah, with some alligators. Yeah, we worked with a guy that he wrecked an airboat in infested swamp it damn near pin Zach under the boat. But we'll leave that story for for another day. But, you know, I'm not really wanting to get into politics with you. But one of the things that is really irritated me lately is how elected politicians and unelected bureaucrats just keep passing laws and setting policy that are so anti hunting. And hunters just sit back and by and large. take it does that bother you?
Mark OZ Geist 39:45
Yeah, it does. I mean, that's, you know, and as you know, I mean, that's why we had these conversations several years ago starting out and that's what really, I think our conversations and that action are lack of action of learners is what really got us spun up to start in found Hunter Nation. And, you know, with I mean, did phenomenal work over over the last election. And really it's about getting hunters out of the tree stands during November and getting into the voting booths making it so they can get their voice heard, because I was amazed at how many hunters are not registered to vote, then said, I think as we started this, and you started telling me the numbers, I was just flabbergasted. How many people are not willing to you know, getting that I mean, I understand how important it is to go hunt. And that's part of their, their heritage, their livelihood. I mean, it's generational things that have happened. And, but if we don't fight for our rights as hunters, if we don't let our voice be heard, it's not gonna be I mean, we're not going to just step on us.
Keith Mark 41:04
Now I agree with you. And when we saw the numbers, less than half of licensed hunters in America vote, that is absolutely so sad. And you know, one of my favorite, probably my very favorite picture of you, Mark as a civilian, is you with this beautiful blackish gray wolf over your shoulders. And, you know, I mean, it just, I mean, of course, it makes you look like the badass that you are. But for me, because I understand the the fight that's going on now in the country with regard to the delisting of the of the wolf and then being able to hunt wolves. And in your own state of Colorado and your guy's infinite wisdom, you're going to add more wolves to your ecosystem that didn't even come from here. And then I think about hunters not voting. And that's how that happens. And as we are recording this right now, Hunter Nation, with our CEO, and president and fearless leader Luke Hilgemann, has just filed a lawsuit against the DNR in the state of Wisconsin to force the state of Wisconsin to allow a wolf hunt to occur per the language of their statute. But But again, if people don't unite, if hunters don't come together under one banner, we're gonna continue to get poor hunting policy across the country. You agree?
Mark OZ Geist 42:33
Yeah, I do. You know, and it's had, it just is, what I see on a day to day basis, both here in Colorado, and across the country, is the disregard for what this country was founded on what I fought for what I've had friends die and bleed for, and that's for everyone to have a voice. And, you know, it's it's, it's so imperative that those who are hunters Get out, get registered and get out to vote. I mean, you know, like you said, they had delisted the wolf off of the endangered species list. You know, there's other people out there that want to put it back on theirs. I've heard there's rumor that President Joe Biden is looking at doing that, I think probably by executive order, is, you know, with that whole idea of executive orders. And I'm not saying that's just the left thing and the left and right, a thought that that's the way that make business happen in government, but they didn't want to. They don't want to allow that to go in Wisconsin. I mean, because it's obviously allowed the law, the statutes allow it, but no one wants to let it happen because of it. I'm not sure why other than personal ideology.
Keith Mark 44:00
Well, it's certainly not science, and it's certainly not conservation based. And that's why I want to take this second Mark, encourage all of our listeners to go to HunterNation.org. If you're a hunter, or quite frankly, if you just believe in God, family country, traditional American values that include controversial things like our Constitution, and hunting, you need to be a member of Hunter Nation. So go to HunterNation.org and, and lend your voice joined the grassroots army that's fighting for hunters. Mark, I tell you what, what a great time visiting with you here today. You know, it's always an inspiration to me to talk to you in. Thank God I talk to you almost daily. I mean, you're one of the guys that give me the strength to keep fighting even when, you know the times are tough, which I think quite frankly they are right now but this is not the time for you, me or anybody listening to give up. This is the time To join the fight, staying engaged, keep doing the things that are perfect, like enjoying your family, praying to our God and our Savior and, and live in this great hunting lifestyle, but more importantly, to continue to thank and respect guys like yourself that have risked it all in some that gave it all for this greatest country in the world. Mark, thank you so much for joining us here this afternoon. And will you come back again sometime?
Mark OZ Geist 45:27
Oh, definitely. Thank you. I mean, you know, and I got to reiterate, if I can just a little bit on that is, you know, our open spaces are our open spaces, both those delight, cunning and those that don't. But without having those open spaces without having that free range of our, our elk or deer, all of those animals have been part of this country for so long. And making sure that you can be safe in that environment. And that's one of my things with the wolf is wolves kill. I've seen what they do and up close. Then, as you said, that wolf that I got was one that we decided to me that wolf we're gonna have a match in, that one ran towards me. So instead of running the other direction, I ran towards it and made sure that it wasn't gonna be around to hurt anybody else. So we got to protect everybody in this country from the decisions of some people that just based on on their own whim.
Keith Mark 46:32
So if people want to follow you, Mark, is it just markgeist on Facebook and MarkGeist.com on the web?
Mark OZ Geist 46:41
Yeah, Mark, go to MarkGeist.com on the web. And I've got the hardcover books there for sale. And, you know, unless you're buying a used one, you can't find them anywhere else. And they will be autographed. If you buy one off my website, or at least autographed by myself, I can't guarantee that the other guys will have an autograph in them or not. But come there and check it out on what I'm doing, where things are going both with myself and with my ministry. And just too if you got any questions?
Keith Mark 47:14
Yeah, I mean, Mark is very accessible. MarkGeist.com. I highly recommend getting one of those OZ signed, incredible 13 hour books. And don't forget, check out ShadowWarriorProject.org to stay in tune with with Mark doing with his ministry and Hey, Mark, thanks again for joining us.
Mark OZ Geist 47:35
Hey, thanks for having me on. God Bless.
Right On The Mark 47:38
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those hosts guest or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Production produced in conjunction with BLT Production. Copyright 2020
Episode 3 & 4 featuring Keith Warren
Episode 3 - ROTM’s host, Keith Mark is joined by his sidekick, Josh Ishmael for a question-and-answer segment with legendary outdoor TV producer and host, Keith Warren. Keith Warren’s answers are just what you would expect, honest, frank and fearless. He doesn’t seek controversy but he isn’t afraid to take on issues or attitudes and we love that about him.
While Keith Warren has a reputation as controversial, and he embraces that label because he feels it’s important to say what you think and back it up with action. We also see his softer side as he talks about working with his daughter, Matti and the pride he has as a father and role mode.
Keith Warren explains how he attracted controversy years about by starting his own deer farming operation. He heard other hunters say, “That’s not real hunting”. He saw the value and potential for good in raising deer in a controlled environment and now his vision is paying off with big news in regard to Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). Keith explains research on deer farms is revealing new insight on CWD and shares big news on the subject.
He reflects on how ROTM’s host, Keith Mark, introduced him years ago to “Outdoor Adventure Foundation” and incredible work they do to make dreams come true for young people and military veterans who are battling serious illness or injury which might otherwise keep them on the sidelines.
Episode 4 - ROTM’s host, Keith Mark is joined by his sidekick, Josh Ishmael for a question-and-answer segment with legendary outdoor TV producer and host, Keith Warren. Keith Warren’s answers are just what you would expect, honest, frank and fearless. He doesn’t seek controversy but he isn’t afraid to take on issues or attitudes and we love that about him.
While Keith Warren has a reputation as controversial, and he embraces that label because he feels it’s important to say what you think and back it up with action. We also see his softer side as he talks about working with his daughter, Matti and the pride he has as a father and role mode.
Keith Warren explains how he attracted controversy years about by starting his own deer farming operation. He heard other hunters say, “That’s not real hunting”. He saw the value and potential for good in raising deer in a controlled environment and now his vision is paying off with big news in regard to Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). Keith explains research on deer farms is revealing new insight on CWD and shares big news on the subject.
He reflects on how ROTM’s host, Keith Mark, introduced him years ago to “Outdoor Adventure Foundation” and incredible work they do to make dreams come true for young people and military veterans who are battling serious illness or injury which might otherwise keep them on the sidelines.
Sponsor Links:
Hunter Nation - HunterNation.org
Guest Links:
Keith Mark 0:00
This week's guest is one of the most prolific outdoor television hosts of all time. He's certainly one of the most controversial which, quite frankly, I don't understand and we'll get into that with him and maybe he can explain it. And if you hunt whitetail deer, you'll want to stick around because you're going to hear some news that he has with regard to CWD. That's coming up right now.
Right On The Mark 0:24
Right On The Mark. Episode Three, featuring Keith Warren, recorded May of 2021 starts right now.
He is hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things God, Family, Country and Hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 1:08
Hi, this is Keith, Mark, and welcome back to another Right On The Mark podcast and my sidekick Josh Ishmael with me and Josh, you know, I've got to tell you, I'm a little giddy today. And I'm going to reveal a little personal story that, you know, the viewers might think, Oh, my gosh, what a groupie, but I don't really care. You know, many years ago, when I had the opportunity to do outdoor television, of course, I knew Ted Nugent, it was Ted that got me on Outdoor Channel. And I got invited to the very first producer summit, that I as host of MacMillan River Adventures was going to go to and my wife Jeannie joined me, and I told her, I said, you know, there's only one person that I hope is here, I want to meet this one person. And it was the guy that I watched every Sunday morning, as we were getting ready to go to church. He was my favorite personality on The Outdoor Channel, Keith Warren. And man, we got Keith today. How exciting is over.
Josh Ishmael 2:04
For Sure. And he's been doing this since three years before I was born.
Keith Mark 2:07
Yeah, exactly. Well, Keith actually was an apprentice under Joseph when Jesus came on board there. So. And you know, Keith has been in this business a long time. And I'll tell you, and this is the greatest part of when I got to meet Keith Warren. So we did this producer summit and I looked across the room and there was Keith and his beautiful wife. And, you know, he was just sitting there intently taking notes and chimed in appropriately, you know, and then there were some other folks from Outdoor Channel on there. And now, Josh, you've had the opportunity to go to many of these producer summits after this one. And you know, there's that crowd, you know, and I won't mention them, but the viewers and listeners they know, Keith very unassuming. And when the when the summit was over, or the first break or however it went down. I waited by the door and Keith walked out. And I said, Hey, Keith, my name is Keith Mark, and I'm going to be doing a brand new show on outdoor channel called MacMillan River Adventures. I love your show. And I'll tell you, Keith, he stood there, and he told me everything that most of the other producers would never share. He was given me information about sponsors and how to do the show. I mean, he was I mean, Keith was a prince of a guy from the minute I met him. And so when you think about it, when you have kind of like a guy you idolize, be careful when you get to meet them, because they may be completely opposite of what they portray on TV. Well, that was not the case with Keith Warren. He was a great guy. And I think you my listeners out there, some of you that don't know Keith Warren, stick around, because not only is that he's a great guy, he's unafraid. He'll take on the most controversial topics. And and he'll give it to you both barrels, you know, Josh, so I'm excited to have him on
Josh Ishmael 3:53
No, me too. He pulls no punches, that's for sure. And to say he's almost controversial in our hunting industry, to be a true statement.
Keith Mark 4:00
And it's a shame really, because, you know, he, his views are not really controversial. They're just pro hunting. They're pro conservation. They're pro America. And you know, to those folks that think those things are controversial. That's why God gave us two middle fingers. And when we get Keith Warren on, that'll give us six between the three of us so stick around. I've got my now great friend, incredible outdoor personality. Friend of everything that's outdoors. Keith Warren is coming right up.
Right On The Mark 4:31
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Keith Mark 4:49
Welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast and with no further ado, I want to welcome my good friend Keith Warren. Keith, welcome to Right On The Mark.
Keith Warren 5:00
It's good to be here. It's good to talk to you. And I'm excited about every day in my life. You know, I wake up and I think, you know, today's a special day because it's the first day of the rest of my life, what can I do to make it special not just for me, but for our country. And so I kind of live that way. And so it's good to talk to you.
Keith Mark 5:19
You know what, Keith, I don't know if you could hear the open. But I tell this story every time I'm with you around your when I know you're in the audience. But, boy, when I first started doing outdoor television, you were the one person that I wanted to meet more than anybody else. Do you remember that first meeting?
Keith Warren 5:38
I remember it like it was yesterday. And I and I, Keith you know, the thing about it is I was told a long time ago, treat people the way you want to be treated. And, you know, always be true to yourself. Don't try to be something that you're not. And you know that there and I've always tried to be that, you know, I've always tried to be who I am and you know, I just look at I think that the very first one of those outdoor channel things that I went to I'll be honest with you, I went to it now, it was a big letdown for me. And the reason why is because these guys that I've watched on television and stuff, they were like nothing like what I expected. It was a matter of fact it was it was almost like God bless. Want to check your ego at the door. You know, I mean, I look at it. I think we're that I'm afraid somebody's gonna wake up realize I get paid to do this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. guys in the world. Yeah. Well,
Keith Mark 6:34
you know what, Keith, you've done over 1300 outdoor show episodes. Is that true?
Keith Warren 6:42
Yeah, that's true. I think there's more than anybody. I mean, I don't I don't keep track. Be honest with you. But that's a I mean, I haven't gone off the air since 1984.
Josh Ishmael 6:52
So it's like Jesus, Jack Brittingham and Keith Warren are not the same.
Keith Mark 6:58
Yeah, you know, 1300 episodes, Keith. And for those people that don't do outdoor television and have never done it, but enjoy watching it like that, that is quite a feat. Because not only do you have to go on 1300 hunts and then some to get the footage that you need to produce 1300 shows, you actually have to produce 1300 shows, which is an easy and so I mean, that is an incredible testament, not only to your longevity, but just to your talent.
Keith Warren 7:32
Well, thank you, but I look at as successful people, whether you're successful in, in a matter of in sports, or music, or whatever you're successful in every successful person have I know, shares one thing, and it's passion, they have passion for whatever it is that they do. And it's that passion that helps drive them up the mountain when everybody else is going to quit. And it's that passion that no matter how tough times get, you know what, you still make it and so, you know, I think I'm fortunate to have passion. I mean, there's a lot of people that don't, but passion is one of those things that you can't get it from somebody else, you've got to give it to yourself. And you were doing 52 weeks a year.
Yeah, sure, wass.
Keith Mark 8:19
You know, the thing that I loved about your, the thing I loved about your show, Keith was that you were the one person that if I was going to be in a boat with for a whole day fishing trip, I the way you portrayed your show, it was you, you know if I was going to sit in a deer stand or a duck blind or, you know, go on a pheasant hunt, whatever it was, I mean, your personality is such as your you come across as that person people would want to hunt with and that's the way I always enjoyed your shows. And I'm sure I'm not alone, I bet you get and have got over the years tons of emails and letters from people that watch your show and just said, Man, I feel like I know you.
Keith Warren 9:01
Well, that's the truth. I mean, I have guys come walking up to me the airport or you know, in a store, whatever that man, I grew up watching you. It's like I've known you all my life and I think I want to be you know, I'm straight up man. I'm gonna tell somebody the way I feel if they ask for my opinion, okay, I'll tell them and whether they like or not, they asked and for the most part, you know, and now an outdoor world I mean, we all consume media differently now than what we did when I started in 1984. Back then, you know, there was a way of network television and cable was just kind of getting started and all and and now take a look at it. Nobody had internet back then there was no such thing as Facebook and Instagram and digital media. And so things have just changed a lot and hunters have changed a lot and and our society has changed a lot and but the thing about it the core values of being an American and being patriotic and in true I think though those core values, they still should hold true, but unfortunately, we live in a world but it's like, people live behind these keyboards and they're 10 foot tall and bulletproof bullies and they say stuff online that they would never ever say to your face. And it's a shame and I want it and I'll tell somebody something to their face just as much. I'll tell it to them online. And I'll back it up, you know, and it's like, I'm not asking for a metal. I'm just saying that Wait a minute, I'm going to be authentic to myself, and, and to everybody else.
Keith Mark 10:31
Well, and I want to get into some of the, what some people would say would be the controversies around Keith Warren. But before we do, and before we leave this segment, all the times that I watched you, one of the principal messages that you always gave is that we must pass this lifestyle, this hunting, fishing, trapping outdoor lifestyle on to the next generation and man Oh, man, have you done that successfully? How much fun is it now that you have your daughter Matti on the on the show with you?
Keith Warren 11:04
It's so fun. I mean, my little girl was like the, she doesn't remember first hunting trip just like I don't remember mine. I mean, she was a little pup just like as she grew up with a gun in her hand, you know, she can, she can now shoot most guys. And she, she's, she doesn't want to be quote one of those pretty faces on television. She wants to be somebody that that that helps more people enjoy the outdoors. You know, I tell people you know, I'm not I'm not an expert in anything. I'm pretty good at a lot of stuff. I'm kind of like the multi tool, you know, I can shoot a bow pretty good. I can shoota gun pretty good. You know, I can I can do it. And Maddie is pretty good at it. I told her I said maybe you don't have to be the best. But you have to give it your best at whatever it is you do. And so if we if I take her out where we're bait and trot lines and catching catfish, or whether we're hunting your, you know, nutria rats or shooting prairie dogs, it doesn't matter. I mean, we're gonna have fun, whatever we're doing, because, hey, we want to pass this on to future generations.
Keith Mark 12:03
You know what, Keith, I do want to get into some of the controversies. But I'm very excited to have you on today because you have some news. You know, you've got some information on a very hot topic in the deerr world, CWD, and you're going to share that with us. And so I encourage my viewers to keep listening. When we come back. We're gonna visit with Keith Warren and and talk about CWD a little bit later. Come right back, we'll be here.
Right On The Mark 12:31
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by MacMillan River Adventures. MacMillan River Adventures offers the yukons absolute best in Grizzly, Sheep, Elk and monster Moose hunting, amidst some of God's most beautiful settings on MRA Adventure should be on everyone's bucket list. Visit mra.com today to learn more, and to book your adventure.
Keith Mark 12:58
Alright, Keith, you know, people like to say keep Warren's controversial, you were on, you've been on many networks, I shared the outdoor channel with you for a while then you left the outdoor channel, you had some principles you thought hunting ought to be portrayed in a certain way you wouldn't compromise. You believe hunting is inclusive, not exclusive. And that's kind of branded, controversial. So let's talk about that.
Keith Warren 13:28
I've always been a believer that I support all forms of hunting period, if it's legal, and ethical. I'm going to support it. Whether I do it or not, doesn't matter. I believe that all hunters have a common thread that we need to look for that common thread that unites us all. With there's something special about being a hunter, we are the minority We are the We Are we have to realize that and we have to realize that we live in a world of soft people that, that look at us as being like, I mean, being weird. And I guess we are weird because we're connected to nature. And it's this connection to nature that connects us to our families and our loved ones and that we can't wait to go we're weird, man. Weird. Yeah, we had I mean, we've we live we don't live in a virtual world, we live in reality. And so what I've always done is I've always supported all forms of hunting period. And and in many people in our industry, their legal products or books, or they shoot archery or they shoot, you know, whatever it is they do. And I understand that, but you know what, that I look at it, I do it all. And I mean, I do it do it all because I love it all. And I want to encourage people to get out and do it all. And so that's one thing I've always done. It's like, you know, like the crossbow ban the crossbow years ago. It was such No hot topic I thought you know some I wanted to shoot one cuz I've never shot one before shot up but dang This is cool. This is really cool. So I started using on TV and man I started catching crap. Oh my god, you know why would you do that is if not archery gear you know but but it's cool. Yeah but it's not archery gear and then all of a sudden now advanced 25 years later and every manufacturer every archery manufacturers got a crossbow. Now don't wonder what that's about?
Keith Mark 15:29
Well think about this and I've said this forever, Keith, that the two things that are going to kill our hunting lifestyle is infighting and apathy. You know, the bow hunters fight and the crossbow hunters fight and the rifle hunters who fight the muzzleloader hunters who fight the long range hunters, you know, or, you know, they just they don't go vote. They don't they don't voice their opinion regarding how cool our lifestyle really is. And one of the things that just drives me completely crazy, is that when some hunter tells another Hunter, that he's not a real Hunter, because he doesn't hunt exactly the way the hunter voicing the opinion hunts. And that is just that's the kiss of death in my opinion.
Keith Warren 16:17
Here's the most arrogant, stupid thing I've ever heard. It's like, give me a break. I'd love for her. I'd love for somebody to come up to me and tell me I'm not a real Hunter. It's like really? Have you ever crawled up the side of a mountain slept inside of mountain for four nights in a row to kill a dall sheep? Hmm, I have is that a real hunter? I guess not. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's like, wait a minute. As a hunter we all choose. I mean, if you want a mule deer hunt or antelope hunt, you want to drive around with truck all day and you see one you smokem, good for you. I'm glad you're a hunter. Right? Okay, I want more people hunting.
Keith Mark 16:53
That campfire needs to be inclusive. because like you said earlier, we're the minority. And if we allow these anti hunters and make no mistake about it, they they support and breed this infighting in our own industry. And they just sit back and laugh because as we carve out and dismiss segments of our own hunting population, it's the anti hunters that win I'll tell you a story. Keith, Shawn, and I did a show down in Texas at a and I made it a high fence operation. We took a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient with us, who had had both of his legs, lost both of his legs in service. It was his first hunt since he went through his rehabilitation. He was going through an incredibly tough time mentally and physically. And we aired that show. And I'll tell you he told the story of of the fateful day when he sustained his injuries and just his heroic efforts that led to him getting that Medal of Honor pinned on his chest. And when we aired that show, believe it or not, Keith, we got emails from hunters that just vilified the show. How dare us hunt high fence. And that's not real hunting. And I thought to myself, who in the world would come face to face to this kid who gave so much for this country and tell him he wasn't a real hunter? Because he hunted inside of a fence? What's your thought on that?
Keith Warren 18:31
It's It's sad. It's sad that some hunter thinks that they are going to be the authority, the mean, they're going to be the police. I'm telling us what's right and what's wrong. I think you know what, thank God, we're Americans. And thank God we're able to we're free to be able to make our own choices. While somebody may want to convertible somebody may want to hardtop with somebody, it's like, come on. Come on. They can both be sports cars, can't they? I mean, it's it's like I look at the I look at hunters and I think hunters embrace one another. That's reason why when Hunter Nation started us like it's about time, okay, somebody needs to look across and say, wait a minute, we're all one big family and we need to support embrace one another. It's thought the bitching back and forth about how somebody does something. And so, you know, I'm just, I'm frustrated because I don't know how to get hunters to realize that you know what, we're, we're we're the ones that are hurting ourselves more than the antis. antis, we're sitting back loving what they're seeing now. Yes. Okay. And so what we got to do is we got to unify, and it worked towards it. And that's what I've tried to do my entire career.
Keith Mark 19:46
Yes. And as you know, me as well, and there is hope, Keith because, and I had conversations with you early on when I had the idea of and started forming the group, Hunter Nation and Hunter Nation. As you well know has grown into a force. Hunter nation was the organization that sued the state of Wisconsin to get wolves to be managed, which meant to have a wolf hunting season. And of course, they fought us and we had to win it up at the appellate courts. But the end result was that Hunter Nations efforts got a wolf hunting season. This past season in Wisconsin, in 72 hours, we killed roughly 112 115 wolves, which in turn is going to save 4,200 deer that there will be a surplus of that number of deer and the deer woods in Wisconsin. This coming deer season and and you know Hunter Nation, we went down into Georgia where they were trying to ban bow hunting and Michael Waddell his own home county and we showed up at the City Council level down there and beat that back. We're in a fight and Virginia right now, on the issue of predator management. And Keith, this is right up your alley. We recently were in a fight in Montana, Montana, Keith of all states. There was a bill up there in the legislature that was going to allow disabled Montanans to hunt with a crossbow during archery season, and that would include disabled veterans, and guess, Keith, who opposed the use of crossbows in Montana during archery season. Well, I won't even let you guess because I'm going to tell you, there was just a handful of organizations led by Back Country Hunters and Anglers which our good friend Ted Nugent calls them the backstabbing hunters and anglers, and the trout Association. I'm not even sure what the trout boys what interest they had and whether crossbows are used or not. But I'll just mark that off as an now anomaly. I don't know. But also wait for it drum roll. The Montana Bow Hunters Association Keith fought tooth and nail to prevent disabled people from using a crossbow in Montana.
What's your thoughts on them? Shame, shame, shame on them. It's like, Who the hell it makes them the authority to be able to do that. If I lost a leg or if I had a son or a friend or somebody that was handicapped, that that's the way that they wanted to hunt. Why not? Right? Okay. It's just these people think they think they're the authority that they can say, No, you can do it this way. Or you can't do it this way. And I think who may I mean, what they must believe their own premises all I can say, well, they're
they're the same people. These are the same people that fought when compound bows came into being. These are the same people that said when we went from 65 pound lead off to 85 pound lead off that you got to put an asterisk on those records. I mean, these are if they are true, elitist. These are people that think the way they do it is the only way to do it. Which, you know, when I was at church this last Sunday, and I looked around the pews, I saw people of all different colors, shapes, sizes, and men and women. I didn't see a whole bunch of genders which apparently people were saying there's a lot of different genders. I only saw men and women but I did see different shapes, sizes and colors. Um, but in any event, I mean, to think otherwise, that this shouldn't be inclusive. What a bunch of smug elitist, fill in the blank. Well, we're out of time for this episode, but Keith is agreed to stick around for more because we still need to hear what he has to say about CWD. So if you want to get updated on everything that is new with regard to CWD, come right back for part two of our talk with Keith Warren right here on Right On The Mark.
Right On The Mark 24:00
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our host guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions, produced in conjunction with BLP Productions Copyright 2021
Keith Mark 0:00
This week we're going to pick up where we left off with my good friend and one of my favorite all time outdoor television host Keith Warren, who's the host, and producer of The High Road. Think about it. Keith has produced more than 1,300 outdoor television shows. That's incredible. Well, I have a few questions for him and he's going to update us on the brand new news about CWD. Stay tuned Right On The Mark.
Josh Ishmael 0:28
Right On The Mark. Episode Four, featuring Keith Warren, recorded May of 2021 starts right now.
Right On The Mark 0:37
He is hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God Family, Country and Hunting. He's Keith Mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 1:13
Oh, well, welcome back to Right On The Mark with Keith Warren. And Josh every week he likes to ask our guests some questions. But before we get to Josh, I actually have a couple of other points I want to get with you, Keith. Number one, you know, we were talking about the infighting and you thought that the need for unity and of course, I believe Hunter Nation is is the answer to that problem that the way to unify the American hunter and those of you that are listening if you don't know about Hunter Nation, or if you want to know more about Hunter Nation, go to HunterNation.org, HunterNation.org It is truly the organization out there that's in the trenches on the frontlines defending our hunting freedoms, our hunting rights, our hunting lifestyle, so please check out HunterNation.org All right, before I let Josh ask questions, Keith. Where did the name The High Road cake come from? That was one of my questions. Oh, was it? Okay good. Oh, my goodness. Well, you know what a Keith. I'm going to turn it over to Josh he seems to have a few questions. One of them I might even be in
Josh Ishmael 2:19
Couln't have said that better myself Keith. Keith Warren go ahead and answer that for me.
Keith Warren 2:25
Should I answer that question.
Josh Ishmael 2:27
Yes, please. But directed toward Josh not Keith.
Keith Warren 2:31
Okay. All right. So Josh, you know, you know, everybody, you know, when you were growing up, he knew right from wrong, right. And you make decisions. Anyway. It's like, what you take on the high road in life is something that I've always tried to do. It's something that it's hard to do a lot of times, but it is always the right thing to do. Taking the low road is something that's easy. It's it's something that slackers do. It's something that people to make excuses to, and I don't make excuses. I want to set my goals high. And I say, you know, what, I want the show to be called the high road because I want to be able to say, you know what, we all need to take the high road in life, whether it's home, whether it's at work, whether it's in the woods, we all need to take the high road. And and it's hard to do. And so, you know, I just, it's a reminder for me every day to Hey, let's take the high road.
Josh Ishmael 3:31
No, I like it as a great answer for sure. Okay. My first question, I guess now, thanks, Keith. With all the travels you've done across the world, and the tundra, and the Arctic and Mexico, what is there anything left on your bucket list still?
Keith Warren 3:45
Oh, I just want to go I mean, I there's nothing really on my bucket list. Now. I just like going I don't care whether I'm shooting prairie dogs in Kansas or I'm hunting, you know, grizzly bears on the tundra. I just like to go
Josh Ishmael 4:03
follow up a man is what's your most memorable hunt ever?
Keith Warren 4:10
Probably one of them. I guess. The most recent one, I did a desert Bighorn hunt down in Mexico. My daughter was with me. And I've never gone for I'd seen desert Bighorn before but never had a permit. And so anyway, I did that this last December and I shot a ten and a half year old RAM and she was right next to me. And after a shot it took an hour and a half to get up to it is pretty pretty butt kicking and I got about 50 yards from it. She said Daddy, let me carry my rifle. I said over my dead body. You're not carrying my rifle. we're gone. We're going up there together and getting that bad boy off the mountain. So that was one of my most memorable, memorable hunts ever.
Keith Mark 4:53
Keith That actually sounds like real hunting.
Keith Warren 4:57
Yeah, imagine that.
Josh Ishmael 5:01
All right, last one. You do a lot of obviously work with deer, what would be the most important thing you can tell the average Joe to make their whitetails have a bigger rack.
Keith Warren 5:14
discipline, don't shoot them. In other words, if you want them to get bigger, you better let them get older. Most of the around the country are no older than two and a half to three and a half years old, many parts unfortunately, they're not even no older than a year and a half. But if you can give a deer you know till four and a half, five and a half years old, regardless where he lives, as long as you got groceries, he's gonna be pretty doggone big. Thank you.
Keith Mark 5:42
You know what, Keith? I'm going to chime in with two points. Number one, you missed a heck of an opportunity because almost every single guest we have when Josh asked him what's on their bucket list. They seem to all say a large Alaska Yukon moose up in the Yukon with Keith Mark of MacMillan River. So Keith, I appreciate you not just pandering for the free hunt up there.
Keith Warren 6:03
I can still go home with that is is when you kill one. Yeah,
Keith Mark 6:13
exactly. Well, we were hunting with Donald Trump Jr. A few years back. And Donald Trump Jr. Saw a monster moose and he wanted to chase it way off the river. And he ended up shooting the moose about a mile off of the river against my best advice. And as soon as the moose dropped, I looked right at him and said, I hate you. Because we knew how the pack was gonna be. But thank goodness we had Josh with this because he's like a living camera man. mule. I mean, he's a, he's a pack. He's a pack and fool. Before we go to the final break, Keith, I did want to bring up another topic. You and I both are involved with an incredible charitable organization, the outdoor adventure foundation that offers outdoor hunting opportunities to veterans who've lost a limb and active service, and young people that are, you know, battling a challenging life threatening injury. And I don't know not to speak for you. But that's some of the most rewarding times of field that I've spent with those people.
Keith Warren 7:21
It is, you know, I wound up years ago, I started doing that. And when I did it with you years ago, you're the one right,
Keith Mark 7:29
I think Brian Solum up there. And
Keith Warren 7:35
I was I was often asked, Why don't I ever do a television show just specifically about that? I said I can't. And people said, Well, how come I mean, I love watching the show where you know that it was very uplifting about this or that? And I said, because I I don't, I don't want to become numb to these people's problems, right? In other words, it is so is so sobering to see families with children that are that have got these issues that it's just they don't know if the child's gonna be around them or not. You know it, you know, or being with a veteran that their skin so burned, that they don't even look like a human and think how do they have such a great outlook on life, right. And I didn't want to have myself numbed down because of too much exposure to that. And so I don't know how the guys that outdoor adventure foundation can do it, they do a phenomenal job. I mean, and my hat's off to him, and I support him in a huge way. But oh my gosh, the day that it is not touching my heart, my feelings to be around those people's day, I'm going to walk away from it. And I hope that never happens because they need our help.
Keith Mark 8:44
I agree with you. And you know the story I told you earlier Keith about the veteran that got the negative emails. Some months after we aired that show, we got a just a sad call from his wife, he had been battling you know, post traumatic stress and, and and he, he took his own life. And so you know, although the hunt was very rewarding, it's it's very hard when you get that call. And right here in our shop where Josh and I are right now we have a picture of a little girl we did an elk hunt with and, you know, unfortunately, some time it passed after we did the hunt and aired this wonderful television show with her and her family that you know, we got the call from her dad, you know when they tell you that, you know they didn't make it. And so selfishly I'm like you that's one of the reasons why we don't do it every weekend. Because I I just can't I you know, I don't have the mental makeup and the emotional makeup to keep doing it. But I'll tell you what, it's it's the most rewarding thing that I think I've ever been involved in, in outdoor television and really in hunting is to take those folks out on these on these adventures. So hats off to Brian Solum in the Outdoor Adventure Foundation.
Josh Ishmael 9:57
And Keith won't say this but Keith actually Bought Gracie that hunt with his own money at the auction in North Dakota. And we went up and filmed her shoot that giant giant elk in North Dakota up there. He bought it with his own money donated or anything he personally bought wrote the check for it. So she could come up and then I think did an outdoor adventure get it taxidermy for Yeah, yeah,
Keith Mark 10:19
it was it was quite It was quite an adventure. And I know Keith, you do similar things. And so I just I knew we shared that in common the outdoor adventure foundation. So I think it's outdoor adventure foundation. OutdoorAdventureFoundation.org
Check it out. OutdoorAdventureFoundation.org. And that's another great organization. So please stick around. We're going to come right back. And you're going to tell our folks about CWD.
Josh Ishmael 10:41
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation. Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values, God, Family, Country, Conservation, and our Hunting Lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org today.
Keith Mark 10:59
Welcome back to Right On The Mark and my guest today is none other than outdoor legend. And my buddy Keith Warren. Keith, you know, I know you don't blow your own horn on this topic. But there's very few people in America that are as expert as you are when it comes to deer, deer management, the issues surrounding deer and deer herds and the hottest topic that you hear in every deer hunting camp is CWD and you have some information for us so what's what's the latest buddy?
Keith Warren 11:37
Okay, so real quick just to let you know that you know, I'm kind of go against the grain on many things. I believe in standing up for what I believe in. And 12 years ago, I started a TV show a deer farming TV show. And the reason why is because I am a deer farmer and I thought deer farmers were getting a bad rap. I thought that there were a lot of untruth being said about deer farming. And I thought you know what, it's kind of a little niche deal, but I think I think it would work in a neat way. 12 years later. Here we are. And I raised big deer, lots of big deer and I help people raise big deer healthy deer. And I have taken ridicule from a lot of the fire chasers I call it you know the people that don't like high fences, they may not like deer farming, but guess what they sure like looking at big deer and know what it takes to get raise big deer. And so anyway, this TV show deer while our stories were very successful, and consequently, I've met some really good people. And it's important to point out that Chronic Wasting Disease, although it's been around, they found over 50 years ago in Colorado, Chronic Wasting Disease. It is a serious disease. It's a disease but it's something that I think has been logically a fake news and I think that they have driven constellation disease into something that is dividing hunters and is ultimately hunting, hurting hunting. But deer farmers are helping and I think that everyone needs to realize what's going on. Imagine if there was a test where they could take a deer and they could see it was a susceptibility test. For example, wildlife departments have often said was this overcrowding of deer in these areas is causing CWD. There's all these things that are causing CWD. Truth matters. There's lots of things that get caused CWD to spread around the country and the biggest thing is people, okay, because people will take a CWD infected deer, they don't have any IDs infected, they'll take it from the place they shot it to their home, guess what? They get transferred those prions to their home. Their home could be in Wisconsin or Georgia or someplace else. And for that reason now there are laws prohibiting the transportation of animals across state lines coming from the CWD state, it is illegal to take an animal with a spinal cord in the brain from Texas into Louisiana or Texas, Oklahoma because Texas now CWD state, and it's happening all over the place, but imagine if there was a test where you can take and he could see a genetically if there was an animal that was more or less susceptible to CBD. Well, there is and it is available right now. And what's happening is deer breeders are taking and we are breeding CWD susceptability out of our herds for amazing CWD is it CWD was so prevalent and so horrible in Colorado, Wyoming where it was first found over 50 years ago, and it's going to kill everything is going to be so bad. Can you answer your question? Why do we still have hunting season in those areas?
Keith Mark 14:34
Exactly. Exactly.
Keith Warren 14:37
It's not as bad as what they said. But they're trying to they're trying to divide and i think that's that's what a lot of unfortunately, people in government the wildlife agencies do. They divide people. And so deer farming is a place that research is being done. It is this research is being done on deer farms. It cannot be done out in the wild. They couldn't ever test animals in the wild. But every single deer that dies on deer farm is tested for Chronic Wasting Disease. Every single one of them we know, we know genetically what they have. And the science has been funded by the deer farmers through the North American deer registry and this information is it's groundbreaking for CWD. Because if indeed CWD is such a horrible problem is some people say and even some organizations are saying, then guess what? If the deer breeders breed CWD out of their herd, Hmm, maybe someday the all the places are gonna have to start buying deer from deer breeders because they are not susceptible to CWD anymore. What do you think about that? Wow, turns of tables. Yeah, does
Keith Mark 15:45
Groundbreaking Keith. And you know, when you think about that, you know, these people that are always negative high fence negative deer breeders, for what are they gonna say when the deer breeders from high fence operation solve this CWD problem?
Keith Warren 16:01
Hmm. Well, it's not going to get solved from the walleye people because they're not doing any testing and research on it. Okay, that was the research taken they can do on the open range. I mean, come on. I mean, the coyotes are gonna eat animals before they get to the buzzards, you're not gonna they're not they're gonna vaporizes what I say, right, when they die in a captive breeding situation, we can test every single one of them. And that's exactly what's being done. And this this information is being gathered off a deer farms, those being shared with wildlife agencies that help make better management decisions for all deer hunters, no matter where they come.
Keith Mark 16:38
Wow. Okay, Keith. So how do our listeners stay up with what you've got going? What's your social handle website? Where can they see your show?
Keith Warren 16:47
I mean, you're gonna ask, if Mattie is with me, she can tell you. We got a pretty good YouTube channel, it's got over half a million subscribers on it on Keith Warrne hunting, and we've got like 12 or 1300 videos on there. I mean, a bunch of them. And, of course, you can find us on YouTube, you can go to HighRoadHunting.com. And that's our website. And you can catch me on Facebook is get on Facebook, Keith Warren and get a hold of me. I've always told people you know, if you take the time to watch our show, I appreciate it. If you take the time to write to me, I will get back with you. It may take me a week or two or three. But I will get back with you. I give you my word.
Keith Mark 17:35
Well, you know what, Keith, you're a great guy. It was a just an unbelievable pleasure to get to meet you for the first time many years ago. And it's just been an honor to become friends and share stories and hunting camps and all kinds of stuff with you since then. So I'll definitely keep telling everyone I know to turn on the high road and I'm gonna ask you to make sure you let all your people know about Hunter Nation at HunterNation.org. And between the two of us maybe we can do a small part in saving this perfect hunting lifestyle.
Keith Warren 18:07
Sounds like a plan to me, man. All right,
Keith Mark 18:09
Keith. Thanks for joining us. Stick around. We have a quick close to the Right On The Mark podcast and we'll be back right after this. Thanks, Keith.
Keith Warren 18:19 Thank you, bye bye.
Right On the Mark18:21
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Colt still making history. pistols, rifles revolvers. Find the right Colt for you today by visiting Colt.com.
Keith Mark 18:33
Wow, that's kind of cool. Josh get to kind of spend a little time with my buddy Keith Warren. How about that,
Josh Ishmael 18:40
no doubt. And he's a wealth of knowledge and knew he had so many projects in the pipeline.
Keith Mark 18:44
Well, listen, I mean, he's a guy that's been around forever. He's a guy that's not afraid to say what he thinks he's not afraid to put other hunters back a step by saying hey, look, don't be an elitist, be inclusive, not exclusive. I just love the guy and, you know, he's never shied away from crossbows or high fence or deer breeding. I mean, he's exactly what our hunting industry needs right now is a unifier. Not a divider, right?
Josh Ishmael 19:10
Just like he said, if it's legal, and it's ethical, then it's okay.
Keith Mark 19:14
Well, wait a minute. I'm looking. It's looks like we're getting an email in here. Well, I think our next guest has just volunteered. We have a Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr. Anthony Fauci wants to come on, Right On The Mark to talk about masking deer and social distancing of deer to prevent CWD, what do you think of that? Josh?
Josh Ishmael 19:39
COVID of the deer woods
Keith Mark 19:40
why Anthony found you. I would love to have him on because, you know, I mean, true. Nobody likes to hear himself talk more than that guy. So and you know, he's, well, we won't go real deep in that. But yeah, he probably knows as much about CWD as he knows about the Chinese panda virus too. So I don't know.
Josh Ishmael 20:00
Yeah, well, Keith, I mean, like he said he was a controversial guy because of the high fence and, but he's hunted with literally everything air bows, air guns. I saw him yesterday hunt with a crossbow, the head, a six bolt magazine is Keith. If it's out there, he uses it. And I love it,
Keith Mark 20:18
you know, and I remember I was with actually with Keith one time and he put a video out and you'll remember this, it was a bunch of pigs crossing a road. And Keith just laid them all down, you know, I mean, all shapes all sizes. And you know, and there was people that wrote in and just says, How dare you shoot little pigs? and Keith just said, Well, first of all, you know, we are managing the pig population here in Texas. It's legal, it was ethical. And they utilize the the fruits of their labor. And you know, he just was unapologetic. And I guess that's why I love the guy
Josh Ishmael 20:52
as he should be. I mean, sometimes it isn't hunting. It's it's, you're you're taking the pigs out because you have to that's right
Keith Mark 20:59
predator management, almost any Texas it's like that. So Well listen, if you believe that the hunting world needs to unify and fight to protect these rights, then check out HunterNation.org because that's the organization for you. It's obviously the organization for me. Give them a look, you know, they're doing some amazing things. And if you come back next time, we'll have another great guest will share hunting stories on Right On The Mark.
Josh Ishmael 21:27
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions, produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021.
Episode 1 & 2 featuring Ted Nugent
The premiere episode of, “Right On The Mark” features one of the premiere voices in the worlds of hunting and rock and roll, Ted Nugent. Uncle Ted helped get ROTM’s host, Keith Mark, into outdoor television and we join their digital campfire as they share a few of their favorite stories. Don’t miss the guitar solo by the Motor City Madman to kick it off right.
Ted Nugent is the first guest on, “Right On The Mark” and he kicks things off with a bang. The Motor City Madman has been hunting for seven decades and host of his TV series, “The Spirit Of The Wild” for more than 500 episodes. He and Keith Mark, host of “ROTM”, have been friends for over 25 years and have shared many a hunting camp along with a very similar set of values along the way.
Keith credits Ted with initially introducing him to the world of outdoor television and showed him the ropes early in his TV career. Keith is the perfect host for “Right On The Mark”, a weekly podcast focused on hunting and Traditional American Values.
In this premiere episode, Keith and Ted talk about how their hunting lifestyle helped them through the pandemic with panic and remind listeners that hunters have provided over 250 million nutritious meals to the needy by donating deer for processing. Along the way, they share stories of the many exciting and hilarious hunts they have shared over the years.
Keith is a wilderness, fly-in outfitter who co-hosted of Shawn Michaels MacMillan River Adventures along with the WWE Superstar for over a decade on Outdoor Channel. He currently hosts the television series, “Great American Tales” and recently founded “Hunter Nation”, America’s fastest growing, non-profit organization dedicated to protecting our right to hunt.
Right On The Mark 0:00
Right On The Mark episode one part one of two featuring Ted Nugent, recorded may of 2021 starts right now.
He is hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God Family, Country and Hunting. He's Keith Mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 0:45
Well, welcome to Right On The Mark podcast. I'm Keith Mark, the host, and this is a brand new podcast and we're going to focus on outdoor lifestyle hunting fishing type of issues. I'm gonna have my sidekick with me every week, and it's Josh Ishmael. Josh, welcome to the podcast.
Josh Ishmael 1:02
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Keith Mark 1:04
And a lot of folks out there don't know Josh is Josh Ishmael cam, which was his original Twitter handle. And the reason for that is is I feel like I've had Josh over my shoulder for the last 15 years because he actually started in this business, filming from McMillan River Adventures and ultimately filming for Shawn Michaels. And I and Shawn Michaels
Josh Ishmael 1:25
Been 15 years of actually filming and then about ever since I was seven or eight years old, you're my baseball coach. So I've known you for many, many, many, many, many I could keep going right so
Keith Mark 1:35
now he's gonna start off with age jokes right off. So you know what if we're gonna kick each other right off the bat, Josh? Well, by the way, thanks for putting on the Hunter Nation t shirt. I noticed when you strolled into the studio today, you were wearing all flatlander gear, right? Nothing like pimping your own show. Just shameless right whenever I can you learn very well from Shawn Michaels nice, right? Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, our first guest, it's should be it's my best pal on the planet. The guy that actually got me into the outdoor industry side of the business. Ted Nugent, I'm pretty excited to have Ted on I'm sure you are.
Josh Ishmael 2:06
Somewhat. Laughing
Keith Mark 2:06
I can't help before before we get Ted on I was doning a project with Ted we filmed Ted backstage, he gave us some lines. And then we needed to get a little bit of video during a concert. And so Josh was filming we just needed literally, maybe 10 seconds of video. For the video that we were doing five clips total five clips. And so Josh had gotten everything that he needs. And so I was standing back by the soundboard with my son Zack and Josh had ended up on stage right? And was just watching the concert because you know, he had all access pass. So he stood there on the stage. Well, Ted, right in the middle of this pack concert. He's playing and just you know, how Ted is in concert. He looks over. And he sees Josh standing there camera down at his side. Clearly not filming. And Ted's thinking that you're going to film the whole concert. I guess. I don't know. Maybe you'll ask him today. But Ted looks over he goes Can I ask that question i at your own risk. Ted looks over and he says Josh, move around Josh.
Just Just like that, and the whole place the whole he's live in the middle of the song and they're all like First of all, I'm trying to figure out who's Josh and what is he doing so badly to be cursed onstage from Ted Nugent? So cutting a solo on his guitar while cutting a promo on me? Exactly. So anyway, stay tuned we've got none other than the Motor City Madman uncle Ted, Ted Nugent, coming right up.
Right On The Mark 3:53
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation. Hunter Nation defends all of our traditional American values God, Family, Country, Conservation and Our Hunting Lifestyle. Join the unified voice of the American hunter by visiting HunterNation.org today so we got a good audio is my level Okay, you're good? Yes sir.
Ted Nugent 4:16
About the most important thing is guitar tones.
Keith Mark 4:37
There's a man that needs no more introduction than that Ted Welcome to Right On The Mark. How you doing buddy?
Ted Nugent 4:41
You know I feel welcome Right On The Mark. Very happy springtime during the dumbest time in the history of humanity. God bless all those positive wonderful families in the asset column. I'm proud to share this electronic campfire with you Keith food logic and common sense continues to stimulate my every day.
Keith Mark 5:00
Well, I hope today's podcast if you will, will mirror virtually our daily phone conversations because we solve all the world's problems which it isn't really that difficult. And quite frankly, we're a couple of very entertaining sons of guns.
Ted Nugent 5:15
Well, you know if I was any more fun I'd probably buy a ticket to go see me. Here's the bottom line. You know, we talked about our phone calls. We talked about the crazy heartbreak that goes on in our world today, especially in the last best place we would expect better from America.
Unfortunately, and heartbreakingly experienced in the very worst, but I think it's really important to note that My name is Ted Nugent. I'm a wild guitar guy i'm i'm not only Monique Corley, the Motor City madman I really am the Motor City madman I pursue every breath I take since 1948. With mucho gusto, with passion with, with adventure with Uncharted, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness and here's the crazy part is, is the lunatic fringe of our our society labels me as radical extreme dangerous out of control Nugent's lost it. Let me make sure everybody knows that the Nugent family is in the asset column, my wife Shemane, my son's my daughter's my band, my crew, my guides, my buddies, my team, everybody in my world, including the Mark family, everybody I know, we give. We work hard to produce for not just our family in our neighborhood, but for our nation, our fellow man around the world, there is no crime in the Nugent family. We don't want anything from anybody in the Nugent family, we set an alarm clock, and we get up every day during especially during these just savage Chinese virus conditions. The Nugent family for all our radical extremism benefits everybody, we work hard to benefit the local grocery store in the feed mill in the in the farmers market, in my neighbors, and we we put in food plots for the wildlife, we manage our habitat so that air soil and water quality benefits all of the people in the world. So as I am labeled the extremist and the radical, I take that is a badge of honor, because I'm extremely tuned in to be conscientious and make intelligent priority decisions so that I don't bring negativity to my fellow man, I bring positivity to my fellow man. And I know Keith, that's how you operate. So it's important to draw that distinction in this world, that those of us that are labeled crazy, are actually the benefit we benefit. our fellow man we benefit wild ground, we benefit wildlife, we benefit the American dream life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of everybody. Not only are we not an obstacle to that, we are a propellant an accelerant, to that so I couldn't be more proud of what the Nugent family represents. And what Keith you and your family represent. And quite honestly, I have a lot of friends, a lot of hunting buddies, a lot of rock and roll buddies, and everybody I know works very hard to be in the positive asset column for America and the world.
Keith Mark 8:24
Hey hold on there. Ted, we have to take a quick break, folks, we will be back with more hunting stories from Ted Nugent, and learn how hunters have helped feed millions of meals for the hungry. Stay with us.
Right On The Mark 8:36
This segment of Right On The Mark is brought to you by Colt still making history. Pistols, Rifles, Revolvers. Find the right Colt for you today by visiting Colt.com. Right On The Mark invites you to like, share and subscribe today.
Keith Mark 8:53
Welcome back to ride on the mark with my very special guest, Ted Nugent. Well, you know, you and I both grew up in a hunting family. And so we were blessed to have this hunting lifestyle passed on to us. So during the pandemic,
I wasn't worried about my freezer being empty or grocery stores not being stocked. First of all, I'm because I'm a hunter, I'm always prepared. We had plenty of the other products from toilet paper and everything in between. But we had the ability if my freezer were to run low to go out and acquire more. I mean, that's what I think we need to start looking back and more towards Ted is a little bit more self sufficiency, a little bit more self reliance. I mean, these people that think that government are really somebody else is going to solve your problems, feed your family clothes, you clothe you. I mean, that's just the wrong approach. I've always felt more comfortable taking charge of my own destiny, you
Ted Nugent 9:50
Well, again, that instinct I think it's a primal pure representation of God's miraculous creation that we are created in his image and likeness, in our conscience, our spirit, our soul drives in an organic, reflexive, primal instinct to be in the asset column to provide for ourselves. And that's why, that's why the miracle of renewable resource management, ie hunting, fishing, and trapping, is so perfect. If you want life, you're going to need food, water, clothing, shelter, weapons, tools, medicine, and spirit. Now bear with me, because I may, I may catch some people off guard here because I never went to college, I was too busy learning stuff. And the stuff I learned is literally one plus one equals two. The stuff I've learned in a hunting family in a hunting environment is that nature, by all intellectual and honest considerations, demands participation, you're not going to have quality air, soil and water, which is the foundation of quality of life, for all living things. You're not going to have that quality sustenance, if you're not tuned into your resource stewardship obligations. And it just happens to be that resource stewardship obligations happens to be fun. It happens to be exciting and happens to be an adventure, the outdoor lifestyle, the hunting, fishing, trapping, understanding where that raccoon might work the edge of that that river, where that pheasant might hang in that thick pucker brush, where that deer trail might go from a bedding area to a feeding area. So you can ambush them, kill them, feed your family. And then of course, the most exciting part of the hunting lifestyle is that there are still so many men 10s of millions of hunting families out there. And wildlife is thriving because we used science to manage the sustained yield harvest every year since the early 1900s. And so now we have so much venison you just mentioned a minute ago, you never worry about your freezer running dry. I worry about having enough room in my freezer. I had to buy two freezers this year. But I think a great celebration of the hunting lifestyle is that hunters for the last 32 years and actually goes way before that goes back to time in memorial. But we donate over a quarter of a billion healthy meals of organic renewable venison to soup kitchens in homeless shelters every year. Let me repeat that. Yeah, nobody knows when I told Glenn Beck that when I told Rush Limbaugh that when I told Sean Hannity that they were really a quarter billion meals of venison, right, rip, really you do that? Yeah, we've been doing over 30 years with the Hunters for the Hungry Program and the Sportsmen Against Hunger. So that pure organic, natural protein, the most nutritious and delicious in the world, we donate a quarter of a billion hot meals of venison to our fellow needy Americans, every year without the USDA, right without FDA, without any tax dollars, we the people harvest the deer that were driven to do because it's so perfect, it has to be done. And we share that pure venison with 10s of millions of American families. And nobody ever talks about this. So I'm proud to talk about that a salute to the hunting families out there that care that work hard because killing the deer is a lot of work right? But it's fun work. It is gratifying, fulfilling work when the job is done and you got that backstrap.
By the way you might be noticed I'm tooth picking my canines here, because I just dined on the most beautiful succulent Axis deer backstrap with organic wild boar bacon. So I'm 72.4 years old, clean and sober all my life because of the drive to get close to wildlife to understand it and not just to kill it. But to understand my organic spiritual relationship with God's creation. It's driven me to be clean and sober and to accept the gift of the best food in the world. venison so I'm old but I'm cocked locked and ready to rock a glock around the clock dock because I'm not tuned out. I'm tuned in is beautiful. I can hardly stand myself.
Keith Mark 13:48
Well, hey, listen, stick around Ted because when we come back after this quick break, let's let's swap some hunting stories. I got a few that you do. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
Right On The Mark 14:35
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Keith Mark 14:50
welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast. My guests. My first guest and of course must be first in the hunting world. Ted Nugent Ted you're here with Josh and I and you know, I was just thinking back I mean you and I've been hunting together three decades which seems almost impossible but but it's true. I thought I would just start with one that it turned into being just one of the coolest bow shots that I've ever seen but I want to talk about and then let you finish the story when you shot that just magnificent moose up there at McMillan River. But what I remember about that day is not the success that we had at the end of the day. You remember how when we left camp and started going down river it started raining and so we pulled off and got under a large spruce tree build a big fire you made Josh and and our buddy Matt Carpenter up there. And Honest to God, I don't know how you carry the pack that you had because out of the pack came grits came oatmeal came candy bars came everything known to man so we actually had a seven course meal. Thank you Ted from carrying all that food with him. But we did Yeah, I did. Well.
Ted Nugent 16:04
What I've done is I've just initiated a Facebook Live so that I can share those with you 10 million of hearty working hard playing hard rock and roll freedom loving Americans out there. I'm on with Keith mark on a podcast right now celebrating the perfection of Gods Tooth Fang and Claw nature and how we need to promote and celebrate the literal of the word Perfect comes to mind hunting fishing trapping is perfect, reverential utility of God's renewable resources and up in MacMillan River there in God's country. True wilderness and I've been so blessed. I was the last guy to get out of the Sudan alive in 1978. Hunting true African wilderness, untouched, unspoiled wilderness. And even today in the swamps of Michigan and you out there in Kansas. Yep, you can still have an absolute Primal Scream perfect wildlife experience in the year 2021, when not many things remain perfect or sensible. But that day on the MacMillan River in the Yukon, I remember because right now, in my pockets, and on my belt, I promise you, you could drop me off in the swamps of Brazil, and I would be just fine. But I always have certain tools of belt tool, belt knife, a pocket knife. I always have a little bit of first aid and some band aids in my wallet. I've got some guitar picks now up in Canada in the Yukon. I can't carry my handgun, but I already have the handgun on a bunch of ammo. I've got I've got my reading glasses. I've got a fire starter, but I remember that soggy, beautiful, nasty, challenging day on the MacMillan River that I just had a small backpack that I take with me every time I grab my bow arrow and every time I head to the woods even on spirit wild ranch where I'm never more than a mile from home. But that that sense of individuality there was a declaration of independence
Keith Mark 17:58
Yes,
Ted Nugent 17:59
That Americans created because we didn't believe in Kings. We didn't believe in Emperor's we didn't believe in you know tyrants and punks that thought that they could control our lives inside every heart of a human being. And believe me, you go to my Facebook, I'm on with my Facebook right now the greatest people in the world. You'll hear from people from Ireland and Finn in Finland, in Spain and Portugal, and Australia, New Zealand, all across Canada, literally, I hear from people every day from all around the world. And they have that same instinct that you and I have to hear the call of nature to hear the call of the wild to acknowledge there's a spirit of the wild and, and we're driven when we take off the shackles of the modern world. were driven to get back to what co chiefs and Crazy Horse and and and Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett and the pioneers that came across Manifest Destiny and create a quality of life and all these incredible inventions that came from freedom where this inspiration to create and challenge yourself, be the man in the arena stumble and get up and try again and stumble and get back up and try again. And so we have this wonderful life where I have a thermostat, I can get hot water anytime I want. I got a truck I got I got everything you could possibly have. But I like getting my born arrow and with a short walk. I'm in the year 1pm so when we started that fire in the rainy Yukon afternoon to summit might feel uncomfortable. But until you've worked hand in hand Soul to Soul, with Mother Nature under worse blizzards rainstorms in Africa they almost killed me until you bend to that precipice of life and death challenge. You might not appreciate the thermostat For the clean sheets, as much as I do exactly, those those wilderness hunting outdoor adventures, they will stimulate the independent spirit and I again, my Facebook is I have people from all over the world on Facebook, who not only never hunted or owned a gun, but some of them were anti hunting and anti gun. But once they heard me repeat over and over again all these years, that joy of aim small Miss small marksmanship, the per the the demand our spiritual demand to be prepared to defend our gift of life. Keep in bear arms, the stimuli and the excitement. And the the adrenaline that's available when that Hawk goes right by you in the trees, Dan, or the birds are fluttering all around you and some of them are landing on the arrow singing to you
Keith Mark 20:50
because you become one, you know, when people talk to you. So that's a pretty important part of our life. Yeah, for sure. And you know, you're these anti hunting people, and a lot of people that that have never experienced hunting, all they do is focus on the end result, which they think always ends up with a kill, which of course, you and I both know, that's not true. But although this particular day, we're talking about the Yukon, it ended up, you know, highly successful. The best part of it to me is, you know, when we were laying under that tree, you mentioned Africa, I know, you remember you telling some African stories, and as you know, that was on the same trip where I shot the moose that was charging, and I shot it with a bow at like two yards. And so of course, I think as we said, under that tree, I might have told that story six or seven times, you know, and, and, you know, and we even heard, you know, Josh telling, you know, everybody just shares those stories and, and that's really the camaraderie that's really what it's all about. But after we packed up that day, and you know, got the fire out, rain stopped and we went back up the river a little bit to a place where we really wanted to hunt. And I don't know if you remember, you probably do we watch every channel, literally everything literally everything and we got on that little bank and had that moose call down the way. Pick it up from there, Ted tell the story. Oh, yeah.
Ted Nugent 22:17
Well, here comes this locomotive, that I had my trusty bow and arrow that I've been shooting since about 1952. I love the mystical flight of the arrow. And I'm fascinated, absolutely stimulated just mesmerized by wildlife. But when a moose when an Alaska Yukon moose is coming into your face, and he's coming in looking for trouble with it. You know, he means business medically. So we're hunkered down next to that pucker brush. And here he comes. I know but Josh is right behind me. And you were right next to me. And that moose was at about about seven or eight yards. But there was just enough pucker brush, covering his vitals where I did what I call the back strap ballet. And I really leaned over to the side and I found a hole through the you're shooting through stuff like this. And I found a hole just about that big. And I put that mystical flight in the air when slammed right through his shoulder. And it was it's a moment that is so pure. It's a moment where you're not really killing the animal. You have dedicated yourself to practice with your gear, your archery, your firearms, that you learn stealth, you learn to read God's pulse, you learned understand the habitat where the where the creature might be and where he might be heading. And it's always a roll of the dice. But you will learn that after experience after experience after experience, and we chose the right spot plus, what was your guides name there that day Matt Carpenter Matt. Matt has I mean, I almost wanted to shoot Matt. He sounded somewhat like a horse. But I knew that he was an expert at that he really understands the relationship with especially bull moose up in the Yukon. And that arrow hit that giant he had to be pushing 1200 1300 pounds big old mature probably eight year old moves to scored somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 inches to 20. Beast to 20 he was dead in about five seconds. Yep. Because the Euro penetrated both lungs and I was shooting a lightweight bow I was only shooting 50 pounds. And my arrow was 400 green gold tip and I think I shoot in a two blade broadheads but those moments that I've expressed as of this right Spear of the wild is such a successful TV show, because I'm able to share in imprinting detail the moment of definitive escape from the modern world. Yeah, I was the only human on Earth you were at my side and you're my blood brother Josh was there and Matt was there. But when that moose and I face, face to face, and the same thing happens with a cocktail Jumping up, or the same thing happened this morning with a raccoon that I had on my trap line and the dogs are fighting it, all of a sudden, it's your your, your, your the heartbeat of God's creation, you're doing your resource stewardship responsibilities. And when I come to full draw on an animal or I'm swinging on a Mallard, or I'm checking my trap line, knowing that I'm reducing the chance for rabies and distemper and made by balancing the furbearer population, I'm telling you the here, here's here's how perfect it is. Here's how perfect the outdoor experiences provide us. There was no Joe Biden, there was no Nancy Pelosi, there was no evil, there was no Chinese communist tyrants. There was no hate. There was no Hillary Clinton criminality, there was no line hating media, I'm telling you, these moments in the great outdoors. That's why my show and my song and my podcast is called spirit of the wild, there's an Aboriginal connection with God's creation that is optimized, and maybe other than breeding and producing offspring.
Very important guest vary the birth of a child, or the the goodbye to a loved one at the grave site. And I'm imagining I've spent so much time with heroes of the military. I imagine when you kill evil, when you're able to kill an evil person who would take away your freedom and harm your fellow man. Those moments in life are very limited. And when you're hunting, fishing and trapping, and you're taking that scientific based surplus from the wild, you know, you're making the wild, healthier, thereby making the world healthier, certainly making yourself healthier. And you're making the air Soil and Water productivity. better for everybody, including people who would try to stop you from doing it. Yeah. So there's an out of body Samurai definitive, highest, not higher, highest level of awareness that is attainable in the hunting, fishing trapping experience. And I cherish it more today as an old man than I did as a little boy in Michigan. No,
Keith Mark 27:38
it's good to hear Josh that all that was going through Ted's head. What was going through my head was as Ted started leaning, and the ball is like nine yards away, and just two days before that you and I'd been charged by the other moose. Here. I'm on my knees next to the guy that's about to lean over and fall I'm thinking. I mean, when he got almost to the point where he couldn't lean anymore, and he let the arrow go, I literally I just shut my eyes thinking God, please.
Josh Ishmael 28:09
For me, it was a step before that because there was two trails he could take, right but when he took or the one that came directly in us or on us, right, it was it was one or the other and we were going to be in bad trouble.
Keith Mark 28:21
Yeah, well, anyway, you made a great shot. And you know, we're gonna take a quick break right here, Ted, but before we leave the Yukon, I want to tell one other Yukon story when we come back. And that involves just what this is really all about. The joy that I saw you share when your son Toby killed his moose with us up at MacMillan River Adventures. Stay tuned, we're gonna be right back with Ted Nugent.
Right On The Mark 28:44
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Keith Mark 29:00
Welcome back to Right On The Mark podcast. Josh and I are here with my good friend Ted Nugent.
Josh Ishmael 29:07
Real quick, I just I don't get to say a lot because I just want to hear you guys tell stories. And I feel like I'm just a fly on the wall. And just like everybody else, and I love it.
Keith Mark 29:15
You know what Josh has been able to tag along with a lot of hunts. I mean, we've hunted with Ted. Many, many, many times. You know,
Ted Nugent 29:25
by the way, when we're talking about hunting together, we're complete idiots. If we don't do it every year. Yeah, we're getting old. Yeah, those moments are so special. When I head back to Michigan I have every weekend sold out for sunrise safaris September, October and the first half of November. Then here in Texas. I have my hunt sold out on spirit wild ranch. But Keith, we got to get Mark Geist some of these. These warriors together and you guys got to come out my camp fires in Michigan are attended by the greatest human beings that ever walked this earth. Nice. Families smart, successful, hard working anywhere from a hardware store operator to a used car salesman to the CEO of a high tech gig to big wigs of the Big Three auto companies, but just hard workin' (bleep) kickers that put their heart and soul into participating in the sacred experiment, self government. So let's make it a point right now officially on Ted Nugent, Facebook Live. And on your podcast, that 2021 we will start an annual ritual where you guys join me at these wonderful sunrise safaris camp.
Keith Mark 30:34
Yes. I mean, it's always a blast when we do and yeah, we've done it, ever ate koon and beaver was there. Yes. The first time you ever ate beaver was it Ted's, so I'll be darned. I'll be darned. Yeah, well, crap, Beaver. It's a good song. Yeah, there you go. So Ted, a couple years before the story that we just told you were up in the Yukon and this time you were allowing your son Toby to hunt and he had never killed an Alaska Yukon moose. It was another great Yukon story. We'd come across the lake, parked, there was a berm there and and we'd seen moose there. And we were coming up along the shoreline. And I had heard just a slightest tick of a moose antler on a branch. No one else had heard it. But I basically if you remember, stopped everybody. And we let out a call. And this moose came. And he got he was coming no closer. It was 30 yards. And he turned broadside. And you were actually filming for spirit of the wild. I think I was actually filming for McMillan River Adventures at that time. And, you know, I've been there with Zach and Jake. And as a parent, you know, when you don't have the bow in your hand. You know, it's it's the rubbers met the road, you know, and I can only imagine what was going through your heart and mind. Toby comes back to full draw. The moose puts himself in a perfect place. And then to see his arrow. I mean, it was a new light
Ted Nugent 32:10
You know, you always hear me celebrate the mystical flight of the arrow. That's why I always use white arrows for so many years, just like Howard Hill and Fred Bear and Ben Pearson did because they wanted especially shooting instinctively, you have to imprint what is the arch of your archery? What is the arch of the arrow at any given estimated ranges and you really learn to read the ranges instinctively based on a millions of arrows arching Well, that's why I created the gold tip arrows that are zebra black and white zebra cars in flight. They look white and they're visible. Plus I shoot a lightweight bow I shoot 50 pound Matthews. So my arrows are going maybe a couple 100 feet a second because velocity means nothing. It's about shot placement, stealth timing, and a razor sharp two blade broadhead in my world. But Toby was shooting a 45 pound experimental nuge bow that day, shooting instinctive, but my son Toby, who I didn't push to become a hunter. I always shared my stories and I he helped track deer as he was growing up. And he didn't get a deer on his first deer hunt in Texas when he was six years old and his sister Sachi got one when she was eight that year, and I remember he was a little let down, but he didn't pursue the deer hunting or the outdoor lifestyle with much vigor, shall we say? But then he became more interested more interested, we shoot our bows together. And that day, it was consummated that his timing, his stealth, his freezing, and his reading the bulls actions that when that bull stop I think it was Matt that did a one last grunt and the bull bull turn broadside. And because Toby was shooting a lightweight bow, which is what I always encouraged for grace and control, and instinctively you saw that gold tip zebra arrow arc those 30 plus yards. And it was literally I think, you know, we talked about prayers for the wild things we want the wild ground to be healthy because the wildness is the canary in our coal mine. And the prayers that I had said I want my son to get a moose I want my son to get a moose hell to get a moose and that arrow it. It's It's It's forever in my sight. Because at that long range 30 plus yards at for only 40 little over 40 pounds afford a green gold tip with a two blade broadhead that arrow arch slowly up over that Yukon brush. And I swear Jesus grabbed Toby's arrow and stabbed that moose right in the top of my heart and that moose with a 40 I think it was 40 to 40 three pound bow, that arrow went all the way to the fletching went through both lungs that bull spun around, and we couldn't count to five, and it was dead and that moose was an enormous trophy old bull. That was over 1000 pounds. And that's a tribute to what Fred bear and Howard Hill and Ben Pearson are all the founding fathers of modern bow hunting got from co cheese and Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull that a razor sharp broadhead in anything's lungs is terminal. And I remember it was very emotional, Toby and I hot course, we all want to talk when
Keith Mark 35:37
I brought the camera back from the moose kill, and I turned back to you guys. And that's something that I'll remember forever. Because, you know, I actually wrote an article about it. And I asked the question, Does a grown man hug his own grown son? And the answer is, of course he does. You had tears in your eyes. Ted, you were hugging him with you know, the pride that only a father you know, could feel it was it was a heck of a moment.
Ted Nugent 36:05
Yeah, it really was. You're not you know, I'm an emotional guy. Because I've been clean and sober my whole life. All my nerve endings are rather raw. I'm very, I'm very, very, very, very, very, very alive. So when you pursue the things that you're so passionate about, you're you're you're constantly breaststroke in up the whitewater rapids of adrenaline. And that moment when my son performed his dedication and practice regimen at the archery range with me, under those very nerve racking moments, a garg gargantuan when youkon moose, I mean, these things are the size of a Peterbilt, exude psychological or tsunami bombardment of emotions and sensations that you're just not going to get downtown. Now, maybe you're going No. My point is, is that Toby perform. That's that instinct I'm talking about, when Toby determined to shoot that moose look like we all experienced. And again, it doesn't matter whether it's a quail, or an elephant, there is a moment where you know, you're taking the gift of God's renewability. And you might not be thinking in those terms when you're about to put an arrow through the heart of a giant Yukon moose. But there's a cocktail of truth, a cocktail of scientific evidence that you know, you're being compelled to perform a conservation responsibility. And number one, it's so much fun because you're in the wild with your friends and you make that little campfire under a wet spruce tree. And you see the ducks and the geese you see the bear off on the on the shoreline. And you see the moose and you smell and feel and taste this nature cocktail of invigoration. But at the moment of infamy when Toby is at full draw, I promise you, it's it's one of those rare, cherished moments in life that qualifies is out of body. That's right, and you have your father son there, which you know, all too well, which we cannot overstate. It's a mystical spiritual moment, that unless you've done it, you might not understand what I'm trying to say. But luckily on facebook live right now you you guys got to come to Facebook, I'm telling you, you're missing out. The pulse of the best people in the world are on my Facebook every day. And because I am able to articulate these feelings and sensations so accurately from a lifetime of experience. More and more people on my Facebook are buying bows and arrows. They're buying guns and ammo. They're getting their concealed weapons permit. They're going to the range and they're discovering the joys of Aim Small Miss Small projectile management discipline, and the mystical flighty the arrow so promoting and celebrating conservation hunting, fishing, trapping, the shooting sports the joys of the outdoor lifestyle. It's job number one in 2021.
Keith Mark 39:09
Hey, stay tuned because Ted's agreed to stick around and join us for a whole nother program. We're gonna bust out some more hunting stories from our 20 past years of hunting, and I'm going to press him to learn why he hasn't been inducted into that Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I think we all really know why but I'm dumbfounded and hope he can shed some light on
Right On The Mark 39:31
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors. Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios, and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLT Productions Copyright 2021
Keith Mark 0:01
Welcome to another Right On The Mark podcast and we're gonna pick up right where we just left off with my good friend, hunting legend rock and roll icon Ted Nugent, we're gonna dust off some more of our favorite hunting stories. And we're gonna give you just a little peek into what goes into creating a television show. While we're trying to hunt
Right On The Mark 0:23
Right On The Mark, Episode Two, part two of two featuring Ted Nugent, recorded may of 2021 starts right now. He is hunted all across America and around the world. rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow compound traditional, he uses them all. He's an outfitter, an award winning outdoor television host and founder of America's only organization fighting to protect every hunters lifestyle. He's brash, he's bold, he's humorous, and a bit hothead. But when it comes to all things, God family, country and hunting. He's Keith mark, and he's Right On The Mark.
Keith Mark 1:09
Let's swap some. Let's swap some other hunting stories. I'll tell a couple about you. And then you can kick some back. So we're up in your place in Michigan. We're sitting in a Doubletree, Stan, I'm filming you for spirit of the wild. And you said, Hey, just film everything that comes in. Okay. And you had told me you'd had this big buck that's coming through there. So in my brain, I'm thinking we're going to set their evenings going to come, you're going to get a crack at this buck. So any which way. So I'm sitting here in the stand stealthy, and we'll tell another story about that Ted demand stealthiness in the tree stand, but I've got the camera here. And all of a sudden I see a doe coming over here to my left. Now you understand Ted sitting over here on my right. And so I bring the camera up very slow. I do everything Ted tells me. I'm filming this dough. It's beautiful. You know, it's walking. It's no more
Ted Nugent 2:01
filming experiences that like you were an experienced camera, man. No. Is there any of your first time you ever did it? I
Keith Mark 2:07
think right. So I'm sitting here filming. And all of a sudden 10 shoots, and literally, the string nearly takes my nose off. As this arrow goes. I was like, Oh my God. I mean, you remember that?
Ted Nugent 2:24
Well, you know, I had a tag in my pocket. And stuffs got to die. I mean, that that was a huge big swap doggie she had to be pushing 160 170 pounds. She came up from the north swamp, about 200 yards from where I set my first lumenok at 58 yards that one day. We're gonna tell that story here in a second. Unbelievable stories. I'm telling you, everybody watching right now, you have no idea. The the excitement of every day of field, Keith and I could live to be 2000 years old and not even begin to scratch the surface of these exciting stories. But you know, I have faith that the broadhead would miss your nose. But that doe was right there broadside. How dare I not shoot that doe
Keith Mark 3:15
And you did you know. So that same trip, I tell another story. So I'm going to start it, you're going to tell it so Ted's trying to smart me up on how to run the camera Ted had right about this time convinced me to host my own show on outdoor channel, which I did MacMillan River Adventures. And so, you know, he wanted me to learn how to film and all this, you know, and so, he said, we're going to go out behind to this place called the picnic knob behind his house. And he said, it's kind of an odd setup, I'm going to be in a tree across the trail, you're going to be on the other side of the trail. Make sure you get up in there and get your face mask on these deer are going to come rolling in here quick. So first of all, I get there and Ted's, you know, a tall guy. I'm not that tall of a guy and so I show up and I see the stand up in the tree 18 feet and there's not a tree peg to be had within my reach. I'm like going for Christ's sake, how am I gonna get in the tree for starters, and so I've got the the camera the backpack in some way somehow I get up in the tree. I've never been so happy to get a safety belt on in my life. In the tree.
Ted Nugent 4:22
You look like a crippled gorilla. Reaching out banana. You kept reaching up and draging yourself up so you can get on the writer. Yeah, we're not gonna film it in front of the funniest things I've ever seen. So I'm already enjoying the entertainment that you're provided and it hasn't even really begun yet.
Keith Mark 4:42
So I get up there and I get the camera. I want to make sure the cameras on and I think oh, Ted said make sure you have your face mask on. So I've got this camera. I've got my face mask. And so I'm trying to get this face mask on. Ted you saw how to go.
Ted Nugent 5:02
Well, I'm up there and it's a little bit late in the afternoon. And this is the picnic knob. And I won't tell you exactly why it's called the picnic knob. Bail that story Shemane and I baptized it as the official picnic knob there you go. It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful place. Anyhow, so it's a magnificent piece of swamp edge. It's a big giant mound about a three acre mound of the edge of an eternal marshin fan of unique wetlands with a swamp meets of Marsh and its Supreme, mystical bedding area for just an unbelievable population of whitetail deer. And so I'm up there and I'm already set up I got my arrow knocked, and I got my face backup mask on. And I'm ready because the swamps out to the west of us. And the picnic knob rises up to our high ground. I'm in the maple and Keith is in the cedar, and I'm watching him climb up. I'm already knocked cocked and ready to rock rock rock. And he's still struggling to get up. I'm going. This is a funny, man. This is just like a chimp. This is like a chip that has never climbed before. And he's and he finally gets up there. And he's got the camera. And I admit that didn't have any hooks or anything to hang the camera. So Keith got the camera in his left hand. I'm watching and I look and I see movement down about 60 yards where this mound where the picnic knob meets this the marsh grass, and I'm going, Oh, he better get ready. There's just a deer coming. And he's over there. And he's got this face mask. And I've tried even though this is the this is the ultimate t shirt here, if you want one of these, you got to have one of these. both genders is the face mask. So he's got the camera and I watch him this dears coming and Keith's going. Gone.
Keith Mark 7:12
Oh, I wish it wasn't true, but it is.
Josh Ishmael 7:15
We've all been there.
Ted Nugent 7:21
I swear to God, it looked like the facemask was going to rape him. He was being raped by the facemask and he's wrestling and he's got an eyeball and there's an ear and I see a nose once in a while and he's naked and quick in his face mask all over. And this G awesome buck. I mean, I'm not a trophy in most people's mind, but a nice three year old eight point buck with real light antlers. He's moseying up this trail amongst the autumn Olive pucker brush and coming our way and he and Keith is still being raped by his facemask and finally he gets one eyeball out this face mask.
He sees the deer and he hits the record button and I whacked that deer right through the shoulder and he just barely got it. And I'm going like this is the funniest thing. I've had some really funny experiences my life but I've never seen a guy lose a wrestling match to a facemask. You know, a better show 10 if that was on camera, but you really but you really have progressed ace vid cam dude, for all all necessary professional accomplishments. So I salute you for that but but I can't I can't thank you enough. I got to hang out at the Comedy Store with Richard Pryor. Robin Williams. Sam Kinison Rodney Dangerfield so I've been in the cleavage of definitive humor. You can might think it's the lap of humor. But no, I was in the cleavage of the greatest humor in the world. Keith Mark its official, you are better than those four comedians combined.
Keith Mark 9:12
Well, I don't know about that. But I sure know we make each other laugh when we're together. Stick around, and we'll share some more laughs with Ted Nugent.
Right On The Mark 9:20
Right On The Mark is brought to you in part by Hunter Nation fighting against anti hunting rules and regulations every day to protect your right to hunt. Visit HunterNation.org to learn more, and to join today, Right On The Mark invites you to like, share and subscribe today.
Keith Mark 9:37
Well, let's tell another story. So you were just starting to shoot a Lumenok and we got in another tree another night that totally different trip but you You said you know what's going to happen Keith, it's going to be right at dusk in a buck is going to come out down on the bottom of that hill. And I'm going to shoot it and the Lumenok is gonna you know it's going to be perfect but he's like Ted said, there's going to be a lot of deer come through here. So we got to get set. So we get set. There's no deer. Nothing. No deer. No nothing except this one squirrel. Ted has his bow across his lap. And this one squirrel keeps coming up in the fork of a tree in front of us at about six yards, chirping. And I said, I leaned over to Ted and I said, He's taunting you. And Ted is like, you know, he's always so slow. He's like, That's his way of saying shut the EFF up, you know? And so the squirrel came back up there and I'm like, dude, you can let that scroll on to like this all night. Teddy just kind of shakes his head like shut up without turning around. But the next time the squirrel picks his head up in the view of the tree, all I see is Teddy never. He never picks his bow up. He just pulls it back ever so slowly. Only. I mean, just a small amount just enough to get the arrow off the string. And sure enough, he lets it thing go and eat 10 rings at school right out of the via that tree.
Ted Nugent 11:05
Not shoot a squirrel I see guys deer hunting and they got raccoons. And they got wood chucks and they got squirrels and skunks walking by how do you not shoot those animals? You need to shoot those animals. But what that hunt finally came to fruition was that just did dusk. This was my first kill with a lumenok which, which I was amazed because they're, they're expensive. I used to get arrows from Miller's feed store in 1958 1957 1958. Literally at the end of the deer season beautiful Port Orford, cedar arrows with real shield cut natural turkey feathers 10 cents a piece. Not so they propose this lit nock for 10 bucks or 11 bucks apiece, whatever it is. And I said well, nobody will ever buy those. Of course now these sold 7 billion incredible product. And so it was at dusk I shot that squirrel and we haven't seen a deer in the next thing we know is bucks coming straight towards us.
Keith Mark 12:08
Good Buck. Good Buck
Ted Nugent 12:11
within 20 yards and it sends to something wrong. So it turns around starts hopping with its tail up I come to full draw it stops. I'm shooting instinctive at this time without sights or anything. And through a gazillion mystica flights of the arrow I estimated properly. And it was just the perfect dusk, where the the shooting light was minimal for the camera, but plenty of visible shooting light, but it was perfect conditions when I touched off that arrow. It our dap and that lumenok literally created what looked like fireworks, like a like a lip vapor trail. And I hit that buck again, when Jesus took Toby's arrow and to stab the moose. Jesus was with us that day because he took my arrow and he stabbed that deer right through the top of the heart. And it was one of the greatest arrow moments of my life. And I've had plenty but yes, I'm glad you were there to witness that because those are those are memories that are burned in our spirit. Yep. And again, I know that people watching us right now Josh and Keith, they're already part of the spirit of the Wild backstrap brotherhood we cherish this we're passionate about it, we live it, but I would encourage if not beseech if not throttle everybody. Find someone in your life. Friends, neighbor, church, school, work, the barbecue, the bowling alley, the shooting range, find someone who is not excited about it not passionate about the shooting sports like we are, fix them. take them with you next time. Give them a lightweight, graceful bow too many guys start out with a bow that's uncomfortable to shoot and they struggle to pull it back. Charmaine kills everything with 30 pounds. A lot of people don't believe me, she kills will to beast and zebra and elk and giant deer and our dad. she kills big game constantly with 30 pound draw, and a two blade broadhead. So encourage your friends to discover this very special sensation. That is our trade. It's the mystical flight of the arrow. Give them a bow that they're comfortable with have them shoot a close range like 1215 feet, so that they discover the hand eye coordination that is the foundation of good archery. And I'm going to tell you, the more people will recruit into the conservation lifestyle, the more fortified we are against those freaks in government and media and academia in Hollywood, that are compromising hunting opportunities across this country with policies that come straight from the animal rights organizations.
Keith Mark 14:45
That's right. You know what, Ted, we're gonna take one more break and when we come back, you and I could tell the stories all day long, in fact that I had another To my mind, but we'll save it for the next time. It involved Ted going completely underwater and icy, freezing cold water And then me laughing and then him leaving me having to walk a mile back to the cabinet. Let's hear that one. No that the next time. It's a good it's a good one. But you know what, Ted, when we come back I want to talk about what you see is the future of hunting and why being part of hunter nation is so important right now. Stay tuned, we'll come right back with Ted Nugent.
Right On The Mark 15:21
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Keith Mark 15:37
Welcome back. We're with Ted Nugent. We're telling all kinds of stories. I don't even think I've scratched the surface. How about you Ted?
Ted Nugent 15:44
Not even close. I'm 72 years clean and sober. I remember everything. And I started hunting with my dad in the fall of 1949 at the age of 10 months. Now I didn't kill anything that year or in the in the next few years. But I literally have been living this hunting lifestyle my entire life and I gotta tell you, I love it and cherish it more now today as an older man than I did as a little boy and I was obsessed. Yeah, I just live with my bone arrow and my slingshot and my Daisy Red Ryder down at the rouge river on the skirts, outskirts of Detroit. And here it is 2021 I shot a beautiful axis doe with my GA Precision 308 the other night. By the way. I just want to remind everybody I've been doing this for so long. I shot a axis doe with a Remington corelock 180 grain 308 just two days ago, and it was actually November 15 1969 with the exact same ammo out of my dad's pre 64 model 70 Winchester, I shot my first whitetail deer ever on opening day of Michigan's firearms deer season. But it's important to note in 2021 that this box of Remington corelock that I bought from Luke's Corner on big bass road and Free Soil road in Lake County, in 1968 1969 was $5.95 a box. The day it's pushed in 50 bucks a box, it's insanity, thank God I got here I only have about, I only have about 250 boxes.
Keith Mark 17:28
you know, one of the cool things Ted is the fact that you know, we've told stories about you know, hunting with Toby and, and you know, Toby, and I've become good friends in our own right. I talked to Toby regularly, because he does so much stuff with you. And you know, of course I've passed this on with my kids, but I've really enjoyed watching you and my son Zack become friends. I mean, you've deer hunted, hog hunted buffalo hunted together. And then of course, you know when we're with you out on the road, because you both are guitar players to sit and watch you two guys, cotton play guitars. I mean, it's just, I mean just the community, you know, the spirituality that we you know, that we share, it's really special, really special.
Ted Nugent 18:10
It really is, you know, and there's a lot of great shared beliefs and ideologies that bond people. And I have an incredible relationship with music lovers. I mean, I I've got some guitars on standby here. 24 7 365 non stop. And your son Zack is a great Hunter. He's a great man. He's a great son, a great brother. He is a great American, and to share the lifetime passions of hunting, and rock'n'roll guitar playing. I don't I don't know if there's a more powerful bond available to mankind. But I love your son, I love your family. And your family and my family are so accurately representative of the hunting, fishing, trapping conservation families of this country. I just hope that everybody realizes that if we don't unite, and and stand up for what we already believe in, we already share these things like Zach and Toby and you and me and our families. That that's representative of whether we have a progressive Oh boy, I hate that word because they bastardize that, but an upgraded hunting, fishing, trapping lifestyle, getting rid of the arbitrary punitive and capricious and just anti hunting regulations that infest every state. But Hunter Nation, I got to tell you, anybody watching right now that isn't a member, they've got to come and join the party. They got to join the force to reckon with and share it with your friends. your buddies go to hunting camp. I got to tell you, Keith, a lot of people go well, what can we do? Everything is against us. The government's corrupt, the media's are liars, that academia are Marxists and Hollywood is completely soulless. Listen closely. First of all, be part of Hunter Nation, go to HunterNation.org and be a force to reckon with for the future have upgraded conservation rights and opportunities. But here's how you Sucker Punch, the Marxist that have taken over our country. You have to be a member of the National Rifle Association, Gun Owners of America and your state Second Amendment organization. Keith, just as members, it scares the hell out of those people who are against our freedoms that are manifest in the hunting lifestyle, and certainly in the Second Amendment. So I hope people are not just nodding their heads and I know probably most of our participants here today are already smart enough and engaged and responsible enough to be NRA, GOA and state firearms members. But if if you know somebody that's not, you've got to convince them that Hunter Nation is the tip of the culture wars spear. I'm Amir, I'm a lifetime and perpetuity of Ducks Unlimited Delta waterfowl national wild turkey and quail, unlimited trout, unlimited, pheasants, forever whitetail. I help out all those organizations. But when it comes to stopping arbitrary nonsense regulations, that are reducing participation, that are reducing the voting power of the conservation families, it's really Hunter Nation. So please, everybody, be sure that you visit HunterNation.org and convince all your fellow supporters, they should be part of this crusade as well.
Keith Mark 21:32
You know what, Ted? You and I've talked about this? I mean, literally 30 years. And in my opinion, and I think you share this the two things that are ultimately if if we lose this lifestyle, it's going to be because of apathy and or infighting.
Ted Nugent 21:49
Yeah, you know, just recently, I just did a wonderful podcast called the guy still got me I think I might have lost you there. No, we got you. Do you? Okay, I got some strange thing on my screen. But I'll take their back again, but anyhow, I just did I was Sam Ayres wild initiative podcast, and he's out of Montana. And you would think Montana Okay, Big Sky Country, elk, mule deer, whitetails, black bear, grizzly bears. shiras, moose, pronghorn. bighorn sheep, mountain goats. Wow. The great pheasant, waterfowl, Hungarian Partridge, chuckers you got the greatest hunting in the world in Montana. They must be rock solid supporting their fellow hunters. heartbreak the Montana bow hunters I mean, really everybody take a deep breath and try to absorb the indecency that I'm going to convey. Montana, big tough rugged individual independent ranching farming conservation, Montana, an organization with the title Montana bow hunters, not peta not the United not the, the the anti hunting animal rights organization, an organization called the Montana bow hunters joined with the brock obama animal rights organization. Under the under the fake name of back country hunters and anglers. Literally the Montana bow hunters join forces with the brock obama anti hunting group called the hunters back country, back back country hunters and anglers and they they've stopped a loss. Really, I can't I have a difficulty saying these words they're so toxic. Montana bow hunters and back country hunters and anglers stopped the league a bill to to allow handicapped heroes of the military to hunt with a crossbow. In a state that needs more mule deer killed more whitetail killed more bears killed, more pronghorn killed more elk killed. But the Montana bow hunters in the back country hunters and anglers stopped the legalization of United States military veterans. From hunting with a crossbow. I struggle to find something more offensive, more cruel, more nasty, or soulless, then so called hunting organizations, voicing the dream of the animal rights people. It's a heartbreaking day in America when we allow this to happen.
Keith Mark 24:38
You know, I agree with you. Well, Ted, what a great What a great time we spent today. You know, obviously we haven't even scratched the surface of our stories. We haven't even got into any of the the music which I wanted to get into because, you know, one of the things that I want to do is I we've got to get Ted Nugent in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I don't believe you You want
Ted Nugent 25:00
to drive in the ultimate Rock and Roll Hall of Famer, real music lovers just love uncle Ted soundtrack.
Keith Mark 25:06
So I'm not worried about it. I know you're not buddy. But I can tell you those people that are watching on your Facebook right now and I know everybody I talked to talk about what a travesty it is, you know, my, my son had the opportunity to visit with James Hetfield from Metallica. And, of course, James knew, you know, our relationship. And he, one of the first things that he said is that what a joke, and these are Rock and Roll Hall of Fame individual saying the same thing. What a joke, you know, and so I know you won't say it. I know you don't gauge your success or your I mean, you know, you know how good you are. You don't need the affirmation of that. But I can tell you as a fan of music fan, as a personal friend, I know there's a lot of people out there that share my thoughts that Ted Nugent needs to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or just do away with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So that's my soapbox. But anyway, buddy, I enjoy all the time we spend together. I love our daily phone calls. I thoroughly love Spirit of the Wild. So for those folks that, hey, maybe don't know where they can find spirit of the wild. Where do they see it? When do they see it?
Ted Nugent 26:13
Well, I gotta tell you, Keith, we just wrapped up to 500th episode that's 500 episodes of Ted Nugent spirit of the wild that's been running for 31 years. We started on public television back in 1980. Before there was an outdoor channel, so we've been on outdoor channel three times a week, every week and get that some of the highest ratings in the history of outdoor television. But if I'm not mistaken, I know Jackie Bushman has been around a long time. But did he start before 1990? Because we've got over 500 episodes of Spirit of a Wild and we started on public television. So I want to thank everybody, for all these years of support and celebrating that we don't produce Spirit of the Wild. We just push the record button. I start sharing my spirit campfire with everybody because it's raw, it's down to earth is grounded his scientific base. It's fun, if spork it's meat, and it's all trophy experiences in life. So if I may, to wrap up the conversation, I thought I would play a little love music that would inspire some backstrap
so everybody, have a great, great spring a great, great summer and get ready for the greatest hunting season of your life. That's what I have planned. God bless you, Keith, you are my blood brother Josh. I love you, buddy. God bless the Mark family. And God bless all the hunting fishing trapping families in America. Be sure you remember the NRA gun owners of America, your state Second Amendment organization and be sure you put your pressure on your elected employees to get rid of any hunting regulations that aren't sound science based. We need to open up the floodgates to let people feel the Spirit of the Wild
Keith Mark 28:40
thanks. Just run our mind everybody. This is brought to you by Hunter Nation. If you haven't joined Hunter Nation, go to HunterNation.org join the army that stands for God family country and our perfect outdoor lifestyle. Come back again next time. We'll have some more Right On The Mark podcast.
Right On The Mark 28:58
The views and opinions expressed on Right On The Mark are not necessarily those of our hosts, guests or sponsors Right On The Mark is produced at Hunter Nation studios and is the property of Bow and Arrow Productions produced in conjunction with BLP Productions Copyright 2021
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Ted Info http://tednugent.com
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Ted’s Hunting https://www.tednugent.com/sunrize-safari-hunts/
Shemane Info https://www.shemanenugent.rocks/
Hunters For The Hungry https://hfth.nra.org/
Sportsmen Against Hunger https://www.sportsmenagainsthunger.org/